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Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on December 22, 2006, 10:31 AM:
 
From today's sentinel:
http://midday.santacruzsentinel.net/content/view/368/1/

quote:
County figures show chronic liver disease and other drug- and alcohol-related ailments were leading causes of death in 2006. The average age at death was 49.
Given that they died primarily of substance abuse problems, it seems that the homelessness is just an artifact of the abuse, no?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 22, 2006, 11:01 AM:
 
It depends on which came first, I suppose. Some people become homeless due to their drug use and/or alcoholism, and some become alcoholics or junkies because of their homelessness. After 30 years of hard drinking and doping it's hard to tell which one it was, and at that point it doesn't really matter how it started because this is almost always how it ends. A lot of times they die of hypothermia because they're too wasted to know that they're freezing to death. It sucks.

But that isn't how they all died.

[ December 22, 2006, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 22, 2006, 01:55 PM:
 
We need hostels as a public health measure, and we need to require homeless to stay in them.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 22, 2006, 02:29 PM:
 
I think that you're right, Walter, and I wouldn't have any ethical objection to the sleeping ban if there were enough places for people to go. Some would refuse, but as long as they camped far enough out of people's way that they didn't bother anyone I don't think that's such a big problem.

The public inebriate thing is nothing new. We used to have 'skid rows' all over. It's sad, but it isn't a symptom of something wrong with our community any more so than any other city.
 
Posted by matty (Member # 1111) on December 22, 2006, 05:41 PM:
 
'People watching',(some might say people harassing), hanging downtown, seems to be a favorite pastime of inebriates of all types, homeless and not.

When you've dedicated your life to drinking above everything else you leave yourself few options. Sitting on the curb watching the world go by is about all you can afford. What are they gonna do? Sit on Westcliff all day reading a book?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 23, 2006, 11:13 AM:
 
A lot of times they die of hypothermia because they're too wasted to know that they're freezing to death.

That's a good counter to the obvious slant of the article, and true, but it didn't make much of an impact on me when I read this thread. I only picked it out because I've made a vow to respond only to the positive (yeah...right).

And I consider pointing out that freezing to death because the only way you can sleep in the cold is to be 'lubricated' to be a postive.

Myself, I got a room monday, primarily because I was too tired, after spending 3-4 hours taking a bus to get my mail, and after sleeping on the concrete for a week or more now, too tired to do anything else.

My mother sent me some money, rather than get me a motel room for a couple of days, probably because I never responded to her emails. And I decided to get a room.

Well, the remote didn't work on the TV. And the water suddenly and complete turned ice-cold in the shower, without any warning. And the toilet leaked onto the floor. But I was too tired to request another room, or go somewhere else and ended up staying there four days.

And, the WiFi was slower than dial-up.

But I was too tired to leave.

Yesterday morning, as I was taking a shower in preparation to pack and go, before check-out time, it turned ice-cold again, and I knocked on the wall and yelled to knock it off and let me finish my shower.

The next thing I know, the manager is banging on my door, and when I don't answer because I'm in the shower (I did yell I was taking a shower...) comes into the room, into the bathroom, with the outter door open yelling at me - naked and dripping wet - to get out.

And refuses to shut the door so peopla outside can't see me naked and dripping wet.

And before I can get my clothes on the police are there. There were at least four cars in the parking lot. And they escalated me until I was sceaming...and then took me to Dominican. Where it took me about 3-4 hours to convince them I didn't belong there.

They told me so in so many words, and oddly asked me if I knew the Passion Flower had been sold and the owners were moving to Hawaii...

...I wasn't allowed to put shoes or socks on, as I was walked out of my room, across a dirty parking lot, and into the car. Nor until I had been 'in observation' for awhile. The bottoms were black, and when I did get shoes and socks...

It's annoying if you have a home.

It'd maddening if you don't, dirty feet inside socks, inside shoes that you must wear for hours and hours.

Didn't even get to brush my teeth.

Or brush my hair.

Or have my medicine.

Or even smoke a cigarette.

Or put on deodorant.

Well, they didn't take any of my medicine that I can tell. At least that was all there. Though they obviosuly went through my wallet. And what was left of the kief someone had given me was missing. And a bag of pecans my mother sent me. But the can of mixed nuts wasn't missing.

But you don't want to hear about that, do you?

Oh, by the way, this all happende before I'd had my medicine. And I guess it didn't help when I tried to explain this to the police while lighting my pipe wearing a bright orange t-shirt with a big green marijuana leaf on it saying Marijuana Medic On Duty ...

Well, Merry Christmas.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 23, 2006, 11:17 AM:
 
Merry Christmas Craig. I'm sorry that I missed your call yesterday. By the time I got the message and called Dominican you were already getting released. I'm glad you're ok and out of there.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 23, 2006, 12:27 PM:
 
PSB, what could we do differently to induce you into shelter? What would your minimum requirement be? What would we then do that would drive you back out on the street? How much could you afford for a decent flop? Are you getting any assistence? Could you do chores for part of your rent?
What could turn you around and make your mother happy?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 24, 2006, 08:42 PM:
 
Many people typically find jobs after finding permanent housing, Sippl said.

"If I do, I know it will be working with animals," said Monika Rice, who became homeless in March 2005 when a friend threw her out of their house soon after she landed in Santa Cruz from Georgia.


Well, isn't that special.

Evidently, one of the new residents on Barson Street.

And homeless here less time than me.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on December 25, 2006, 04:42 AM:
 
Consider a lawsuit! The rent was paid until a posted check out time on your last day under a rental agreement. Tennents can refuse their daily maid service too.

A manager has no right to come early and let herself in with a pass key. She was went overboard, by entering the bathroom occupied by a naked tennant. The police should have arrested this 8itch on the spot for invasion of privacy and violating basic landlord / tennant laws.

Unfortunately, most of out low end flophouses are owned by a family of FOREIGNERS from India! They don't much care about your constitutional rights either. Maybe Craig stayed the same place written up by the METRO a few years ago? They used to eavesdrop on phone calls routed through their office switcboard, illegal or not.

Should be easy to find out if this is the same motel owned on by the Indian family. I think it was Kelly Luker who wrote about them in the weekly paper.

The same family owns a lot of those low end homeless rentals in San Francisco too. They have been investigated by both KGO radio and KQED channel 9 for harassing tennants there too.

Their patriarch is married to a federal judge, who handled the NAPSTER case...
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 25, 2006, 06:23 AM:
 
Lots is wrong. How to fix?
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on December 25, 2006, 08:26 AM:
 
Walter asked "The Question":

quote:
Lots is wrong. How to fix?
There is one person who posts to this forum who also represents a proven track record of raising funds n Santa Cruz County.

Over a span of more than thirty years now, I have occasionally walked onto various rooms around this county and successfully raised thousands of dollars for good causes by playing the piano.

This all started in 1975 when I personally raised the funds to launch Watsonville's United Scleroderma Foundation.

This is Christmas, the time of Giving. For nearly three years now I've been making public offers in this Forum to provide genuine area wide Public Benefit.

 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 25, 2006, 09:05 AM:
 
But what do we do with the money? It might be cheapest just to put all the homeless on the payroll somewhere. Kinda like the Babushkas sweeping Moscow's streets. Perhaps the money we spend is in the wrong direction.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 25, 2006, 09:44 AM:
 
I think that one of the biggest gaps in the 'continuum of care' of homeless services is in real job training. There are so many guys out there under 30 that screwed up when they were young and made all the wrong choices. What started as a party and/or a rebellion ended up leaving them on the street with no job skills and not much hope for their future. They're still young enough to turn it all around if they could learn a marketable skill, but we don't have any sort of apprenticeship programs for them. We could never get them the sponsors or cash that they needed to break into the real trade unions.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on December 25, 2006, 10:15 AM:
 
The complicity or intentional blinders of law enforcement at all levels accommodates the illegal importation of foreign labor for appropriate trades at that skill level.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on December 25, 2006, 11:11 AM:
 
Certainly reasonable comments, but....

Why must we "Correct The Flaws" in the victims before they qualify for our assistance?

Who among us is without flaws of their own?

A little spliff and a clean motel room with warm running water is clearly the current need.

Extracting confessions from the unfortunate and judging them for their sins is not an appropriate "Cost Of Business Expense" for charity.
-----------------------------------
Free the BCA Musicians.

Genuine Independent 501(c)(3) Public Benefit with no "Judging the Unfortunate" hidden behind either a liberal or a conservative political/religious shield.

 -
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 25, 2006, 08:36 PM:
 
Anybody see the FEMA emergency housing units? Apparently they make God's own trailer park, I think they are 20x8, but someone should be able to develop social groupings that work. I think they cost a few thou apiece compared to 75K per unit for any conventional construction. I read somewhere a city gave all their homeless 95 gallon plastic garbage carts, because they held more than a shopping cart and it could be laid on its side and used as a sleeping shelter.
What we have now doesn't work, and running homeless off doesn't either. Where could Santa Cruz put 1,000 20 x 8 shelters?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 26, 2006, 06:09 AM:
 
There are probably any number of places where we could put them (theoretically), but I can't imagine that there is anywhere in the county where the zoning and use would be permitted. NIMBYs go nuts when even a small transitonal housing unit is proposed for their neighborhood so that it's hard to get even scattered site subsidized housing approved. I also wonder how much maintenance would be required to keep them in livable shape over the long run. Maintenance was something I always seemed to underbudget for.

It's probably a good idea though, and the kind of thing we would do if we were actually trying to solve homelessness for those who simply need cheap rent to get on their feet again. I think that the general feeling that homelessness is unsolvable keeps us from trying some of these creative solutions.

Walter, I just have to say that I'm continually impressed by the common-sense, open-minded and practical ways that you look at social problems. Maybe we need engineer types looking at this stuff and not just social workers.

[ December 26, 2006, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 26, 2006, 06:36 AM:
 
Perhaps just people not obsessed with looking over their shoulder. There is a real, non-altruistic reason to house the homeless in public health and in efficient distribution of assistance.
The zoning is a problem, but like many problems, all solutions are bad but some are more bad.
Compassion is allowed to enter the equation, but if it rules, then reality can be disapointing. Give someone a nickle for a cup of coffee and find out he spent it for sneaky pete, so you stop giving. The need stays. As we used to say before it became politically incorrect, "If it was easy we'd have the ladys do it."
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 26, 2006, 06:51 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
Perhaps just people not obsessed with looking over their shoulder. There is a real, non-altruistic reason to house the homeless in public health and in efficient distribution of assistance.

Exactly. There's a practical community management problem around homelessness too, and the entire community is better off when we address it. Some of the best advice I ever got when I was running the center came from people who were not at all motivated by compassion, but by wanting to see practical solutions and the best use of their tax dollars.

quote:
The zoning is a problem, but like many problems, all solutions are bad but some are more bad. Compassion is allowed to enter the equation, but if it rules, then reality can be disapointing.
Bleeding heart that I am, I still agree. I went out of my way to make sure that we had some hard-nosed pragmatists on our Board of Directors so that my emotions didn't get in the way of our ability to make good strategic decisions. Any number of times one of my male staff members would have to pull me aside and make rather crude comparisons to breast feeding when I would get carried away with sympathy for some kid's problems.

quote:
As we used to say before it became politically incorrect, "If it was easy we'd have the ladys do it."
I know I should object to that, but at least you called us 'ladies'. [Smile]
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on December 26, 2006, 09:48 AM:
 
quote:
But what do we do with the money?"
I would think that getting the ears warmed up enough to finally shake that (cold night outside) headache would probably seem like a pretty good investment at about 3 a.m.. A warm room and a puff of spliff won't be wasted just because we gave it away without any strings attached to someone who wanted it - even if they brought all their problems down upon themselves - even if they want the spliff more than they "need" it.

Cagey presented a reasonable sounding critique:

quote:
What started as a party and/or a rebellion ended up leaving them on the street with no job skills and not much hope for their future.
But, LWard's comment seemed far more accurate:

quote:
"The complicity or intentional blinders of law enforcement at all levels accommodates the illegal importation of foreign labor for appropriate trades at that skill level."
Indeed, what judge or politician could send a vagrant to the "Work House" (or suggest any nicer sounding "practical solutions") without quickly running into the brick wall of entrenched special interests protecting the Super Wealthy / Illegal Alien "Axis"?

quote:
Where could Santa Cruz (County) put 1,000 20 x 8 shelters?
How about if we just let them all sleep in the spacious lobby of the fabulous brand new City & County Government $52 Fifty Two Million Dollar "Palace" in downtown Watsonville?

Oh, I bet I know the answer: cause our "good" and well respected politicians don't want to share any of their expensive Taxpayer Purchased Champaign and Caviar with "The Bums".

Well OK, but...

How about if I just play an all night concert at the Mello every night during the Winter that anyone can attend for free - "Dirty Bums" too - with a Taxpayer Owned warm shower and laundry facilities in the WHS Gym less than fifty yards from the stage?

"Leadership" could still be down at "Their Palace" - just a few blocks away - selfishly swilling all "their" Public Pork Grease. Our County's beloved official "Robber Barons" could still keep passing around all those ubiquitous "Mutual Back Slapping Awards" to each other - with no new ideas allowed in S.C. County, our politicians seem to have an endless supply of those.

For example, the extremely well paid City Manager of South County's "Tyranny of Taxation Without Representation" has just been named "Man of the year".

But, to quote Cabrillo's famous political science professor: "Politics is all about Who's Ox is Getting Gored".

Folks, when the 501(c)(3) Public Benefit Laws are allowed to be casually dismissed by "Leadership" as mere scraps of paper (as in the "BCA Issue"), it is clearly the PUBLIC's OWN OX that is being "Gored".
 
Posted by lookwithin (Member # 1906) on December 26, 2006, 09:51 AM:
 
Appropriate Pre-Apprenticeship programs, to prepare those who can make the turnaround for a trade, may be one part of a solution.
My question would be (after spending 4 hours working and observing at the Vets Hall yesterday), are there a substantial number of salvagable persons who would enter and complete this sort of program?
Some people are working on something like this for inclusion in part of the educational system. There are successful models out there. Would they have local clients from the Santa Cruz homeless population?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 26, 2006, 10:14 AM:
 
Morning [Smile]

I think that there would be a lot of interest from the younger homeless people. There were lots that were willing to work and stood in front of San Lorenzo every morning or signed up with LaborReady to get day labor. They just didn't have any specific skills. The older guys that have been out there for years mostly have other significant issues that they would need to deal with first in order to become employable. The longer they stay out there, the harder it gets.

It was always really easy to get contractors to round up donated tools for anyone that we could find a trades job for, though.

A lot of guys would describe themselves as homeless by choice, but when you talked to them for awhile it was clear that they didn't think they had any other choices but were too proud to admit it. Twenty-five or thirty is way too young to be writing off the rest of your life to hopelessness IMO.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 11:38 AM:
 
Well, I woke up to a dog peeing on my sleeping bag.

Owner offered to give me a dollar so I could wash it. She was a kid who has a home a slept out last night becuase it was too far to get too, she said.

Evidently doesn't know it cost $5 to wash a small load of laundry, and besides, what's the point. It has now been zoned 'toilet' for every dog, cat, skunk, **** and possum in the area...
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 11:39 AM:
 
And that **** was C-O-O-N. Jeez! [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 26, 2006, 11:43 AM:
 
I just spent 5 minutes trying to figure out what was sexual about C**n before I asked someone. I guess I need to spend more time around racists.

Use a lot of bleach and that should get the smell out.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 26, 2006, 12:58 PM:
 
I guess the fact that my maternal grandma spent 20 years working in a Chicago storefront mission colors my perceptions.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 26, 2006, 01:22 PM:
 
20 years - wow. She must have been a pretty amazing person. I only lasted 10 before I was so burned out that I was starting to hate the whole world. I wasn't sick of homeless people, but I couldn't handle the politics and the press and public controversy anymore. Trying to balance helping vs. enabling in a system that almost forces you to treat all people in the same cookie-cutter way was so frustrating sometimes. But there were always these moments where things all came together for someone and they would get so excited that it was the coolest work in the world.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 07:28 PM:
 
their patriarch is married to a federal judge, who handled the NAPSTER case...

I've just sat down to read this thread for the first time.

Yes, it's the Patels. And I actually asked them if they were related to the judge. Motel Santa Cruz at Broadway & Ocean, or whatever the street is. Sabrina's the owner, best I can recall, from a farming caste. She married a Patel, best I can recall.

Though I never saw her during this past stay. It was a 'he' that gave me the bum's rush.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 07:30 PM:
 
We need hostels as a public health measure, and we need to require homeless to stay in them.

Then you're not providing shelter, you're putting them in jail.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 26, 2006, 07:37 PM:
 
We really need to resolve the homeless problem. We can not throw talent away, nor can we dehumanize even the raunchiest. A non judgemental approach seems to be the cheapest way. Shelter, food, opportunity. Guidance where acceptable. Most of us have some talent, and if we can hold down the overhead we can make our way. I have been outside the ordinary since 1975, so I know that not everyone need march to the same drummer.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 26, 2006, 07:41 PM:
 
PSB, tell us how. Jailing costs money [I have built a few so I know] and compulsion costs too. Go back to my questions and give us advice. And
call your mother, please. What would work for you?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 07:47 PM:
 
The older guys that have been out there for years mostly have other significant issues that they would need to deal with first in order to become employable. The longer they stay out there, the harder it gets.

Like their bodies are completely worn out from the manual labor and they don't have any health care or disability because they worked 'under the table' all their life.

And they're strung out because the only way they could frame your buildings, sleeping under a bush or at the construction site, was to do speed.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on December 26, 2006, 07:49 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
We really need to resolve the homeless problem. We can not throw talent away, nor can we dehumanize even the raunchiest. A non judgemental approach seems to be the cheapest way. Shelter, food, opportunity. Guidance where acceptable. Most of us have some talent, and if we can hold down the overhead we can make our way. I have been outside the ordinary since 1975, so I know that not everyone need march to the same drummer.

Walter, I have to tell you, that is my favorite post of yours for me of all time. It says a lot about you that I regretfully missed in most of your posts. Forgive me. You have a real heart in the right place. I take back every attack I ever made on you. We're on the same page with that post and I salute your total humanity. Thank you.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 07:53 PM:
 
A lot of guys would describe themselves as homeless by choice, but when you talked to them for awhile it was clear that they didn't think they had any other choices but were too proud to admit it.

Besides being told by any and every one that life is simply about making 'the right' choices and therefore they just have made 'the wrong' choices. All their life. And therefore must be such a stupid idiot that it's hopeless, so why not take all the drugs you can and enjoy yourself a little before....

...those people are dying of DISPAIR. Most of them. Most of them WANT TO DIE. They just don't have the guts or the means to do it quick and clean.

Kerry pulled one attempt just to get OUT of the armory and into ANYTHING else. She's dead now. Suicide. Soma.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 08:12 PM:
 
What would have worked for me was for my medicine to be treated like medicine and not to have been denied services and housing because of it.

What would have worked for me would have been for them to at least let me sleep on a damn chruch floor until I could get something else.

Evidently that was faaaaaar too much to ask.

Now, I could never deal with those people again.

The fact is, you could house everyone in a motel and have plenty of money left over for weed and food, except the money spent on charity doesn't go to the homeless.

I have stated so many times what my income is and where it comes from I'm sick of it.

My sole an entire problem is that I'm a medical marijuana patient, and it is more important for me to be functional (have and use my medicine) than for me to be housed. I am not a drunk, or a dissipate, as Mattie so genrously continually implies. Nor can I make a living selling paper-mache cows in a rain forest, even if I could close the deal my ethics just wouldn't let me pitch it...

...well, now my probelm is that probably about New Year's, or shortly after, when the police harass me there will be a bench warrant issued because I either didn't appear on those camping tickets, or didn't pay whatever fines or community service they attempted to extort from me...and then they will probably put me in jail, and destroy everything I have in the process.

You really have no idea the violence your officials and institutions perpetrate on the poor and homeless. I have been falling asleep sitting up for weeks now, since they ran me out of Lighthouse Field and I've had to sleep on concrete.

I'm old. I have arthritis. I am exhausted. I can't really think clearly because of sleep deprivation. I'm sick, probably walking pneumonia. I have a psychiatric disability. And I've been through enough to drive a normal person crazy.

My sleeping bag is probably still wet from the dog piss.

I'm broke.

What you should do, is what I've been saying for the past two years - treat your medical marijuana patients who have lived in California all their taxpaying lives at least as well as some 'hopeless' drunk from Georgia.

And quit the 'just following orders' bull****.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 09:04 PM:
 
About the hostel idea:

It occurs to me that River Street shelter is something like what you have in mind, and I literally ran screaming from that place. To start with, there is no way for you to keep anything safe there. You can't watch your things and do your chore (and what's this chore nonsense when you've got 8 people sleeping in a room each good for $800-$1100/month from the government!?).

The only time I had anything stolen was when I was staying in River Street shelter. My wrist brace, which I've never been able to replace. A custom one. I need to wear it at night, particularly geting up and down off the ground, the concrete. The cold, damp, heat sucking concrete...

And putting a bunch of junkies with psychiatric disabilities in with homeless is travesty enough, but putting them in authority over them is downright cruel and unusual. And then telling the Pioneer people that they are paying for the food of the dozen or so 'non program' homeless they 'allow' to 'shelter' in that flop-house for 30 days, while they're there for 90.

The armory does not allow any metal. If they allow smoking at all it's outside in the rain, and aren't most umbrellas metal? Aren't ALL umbrellas metal? And I hear they won't let you smoke after 10 pm anyway.

Your homeless programs aren't designed around the needs of the homeless. If they were, you wuoldn't require them to be at the concentration camp at 4pm in order to get on a list for shelter, every day. Every single ****ing day. And that's just for starters. But I'm tired. There's work I've been wanting to do on my genealogy for years and I want to do it before my computer is ruined, or stolen, or taken by the police, or something. Besides, I have to pay (and pay dearly) to use the internet on the holidays. And it looks like I'm going to run out of money tomorrow or the next day, and be out until next Wednesday.

And besides, we've been through all this before.

I've answered every single one of your questions numerous times, in threads you've participated in.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 26, 2006, 09:22 PM:
 
We really need to resolve the homeless problem. We can not throw talent away, nor can we dehumanize even the raunchiest. A non judgemental approach seems to be the cheapest way. Shelter, food, opportunity. Guidance where acceptable. Most of us have some talent, and if we can hold down the overhead we can make our way. I have been outside the ordinary since 1975, so I know that not everyone need march to the same drummer.

Well, yes, this is a good statement. And it is true. One thing I haven't gotten to is that your current policies and programs prevent the homeless from doing anything for themselves. Anything whatsoever.

You're constantly tearing down everything they build up. The cover-boy on Good Times homeless puff-piece, Larry, had everything he had 'stolen' when I tried camping in the Pogonip this spring. His tools, everything. After starting from scratch a few times every month or so, it does seem a lot easier to just do whatever drugs you can get and hope it ends quickly. Especially when you're constantly being harassed by the police.

It does get to the point where you figure if you're going to do the time, you might as well do the crime.

And being shorn of every shred of dignity at the concentration camp.

One of the reason I will never go back to the concentration camp is because I refuse to allow my life to be reduced to spending all my time competing for food, and to bathe, sleep and use the toilet. And that is the price that travesty extorts.

I have a lot of talent, and there's a lot of things I might (or might not) be able to do if I had a place to hang my hat, a refrigerator with a good-sized freezer so I could buy bulk at sales, a stove (not some damn microwave and drink cooler). And not Electric heat and stoves. I've learned if I look at an apartment (that I can afford) and see those cheap electric space heaters in the wall, and an electric stove, it's an exploitive slumlord and I'm better off sleeping on the sidewalk.

But I digress...
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on December 27, 2006, 02:06 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
We really need to resolve the homeless problem. We can not throw talent away, nor can we dehumanize even the raunchiest. A non judgemental approach seems to be the cheapest way. Shelter, food, opportunity. Guidance where acceptable. Most of us have some talent, and if we can hold down the overhead we can make our way.

Excellent post, Walter. Thank you. A good Christmas gift to be able to see into where your heart is.

Breaking out cross the nation, among service providers to the most vulnerable, is a recent "Housing First" movement. Its basic principle is that -- just as PSB says -- if one has a place to hang one's hat, the rest of it may well start straightening out on its own.

In fact, here's an article about one town that adopted that principle, and has seen a 20% decrease in chronic homelessness within a year:

http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2006/06/19/news/news01.txt

And, as Cagey has often pointed out, it delivers a crucial factor in addition to simply helping people -- namely, a measurable outcome.

Local architect Matthew Thompson has advocated for years for every local housing element to contain one downtown site at a density to permit 150-200 sq ft units -- small enough that even unsubsidized market rent would be affordable to those on steady fixed support incomes (such as Social Security disability) -- and those with help, such as Section 8, could be entirely secure. It therefore could function as either transitional or permanent housing, without having to force people out.

One of the greatest sources of the immense frustration I've sometimes expressed here over certain local leaders and their assistants is that those of us who worked for years with the county on a reasonable housing plan actually got a provision for SRO's in downtown locations throughout the county. While SRO's aren't cheap enough in rent levels to accomodate those already homeless, they are more than inexpensive enough to help people not fall into it.

And that program, agreed to by the county both verbally and in writing, in letters to the state, simply disappeared in the second next version of the housing plan, eliminated by the same people who do so much of the behind the scenes manipulation of policy.

Next time we'll get it. And it will help. As will the contributions to discussion and action by people such as yourself.

So again, thank you.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on December 27, 2006, 04:15 AM:
 
quote:
Yes, it's the Patels.
I just knew it. See if you can find that Kelly Luker METRO article about the same of incidents involving other people. Time for somebody to get busted here!

The Old Man (Prakesh Patel) owns all of the flophouses in northern California. These provide jobs for his extended family including Sabrina.

The judge is Marilyn HALL Patel, who is also the daughter of former perrenial Communist Party candidate for president, Gus Hall.

Strange people for damned sure. Maybe this explains their KGB style invasion of your privacy. Commies don't give a rat's @ss about our constitutional rights...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 06:00 AM:
 
So Craig, you're pretty vocal about how all homeless services suck here. So, put your time where your mouth is and design it better. Put together entire program designs, provide a budget, tell us where you'll get the money from, what it will take to get the zoning approved, where the capital funds are coming from, what the rules are, etc. Your plan needs to address the situations of families with children, the mentally ill (with and without substance abuse issues), those struggling with recovery, junkies, alcoholics, etc. You need to describe specifically how it will work here in Santa Cruz on actual existing sites.

It's a hell of a lot easier to sit on your *** and whine than it is to actually accomplish something.

So back up your b*tching with a plan and show us all how it should be done. Vague ideas aren't worth anything, so get specific. Come up with a real plan that is actually implementable and fundable, and that works for everyone and not just you. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke and useless blather. Show us all how a superior intellect like yourself would do it.

*waits for the crickets, as usual...

ETA: Oh, and BTW I work 40 hours a week at least, pay the bank $2500 a month in mortgage payments, and the rotten SOB's still won't come clean my house for me [Roll Eyes]

[ December 27, 2006, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 27, 2006, 07:23 AM:
 
Non-judgemental, warm, dry, private. Sounds like a start. I still think that it would be cheaper than the top heavy systems we have now. Studio apartments with Murphy beds should be a lot easier that multi story multi resident edifices. Have a design contest for the least expensive suitable shelter, then find places for clusters or even single fill-in construction. Telephone required, and perhaps a jitney service to help shopping and medical appointments.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 07:43 AM:
 
That's an interesting idea, Walter, and I think something like that would work for a whole lot of people assuming that we would let something like that be built. (Of course it wouldn't be luxurious enough for PSB, but most homeless people are far, far more realistic and practical than he is being at the moment and would jump at the chance to have clean, dry private housing.) Would you picture people paying rent for them, or a sliding scale, or free? Can people with no income that aren't capable or willing to work live there? I like the idea that what they do in their house is their own business unless they make it a problem for others and then the cops deal with it like they would anyone else instead of paying a bunch of 'minders' that can't control it all anyway. So many homeless people get SSDI and are willing to spend it on food and housing instead of drugs that they could afford to pay reasonable rents.

I tend to focus on the practical day-to-day details like money and property management, but if money was no object I think it's a better approach for most homeless people that don't need a lot of supportive services to make it through the day.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 27, 2006, 08:12 AM:
 
I read recently that in Southern California that they are using the shipping containers from ships-of which there are literally 1000's-and converting them to housing on vacant lots-I thought this a very good idea-they insulate and plumb them-they stack well.Any body know if this program had taken any shape?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 08:26 AM:
 
I don't have time to research it right now, but if you google on shipping containers + housing + homeless you get a lot of hits. There are also a lot of hits on the rehab process. Here is one where they are trying it for farmworker housing:

Migrant worker housing using shipping containers

It's an interesting idea.

[ December 27, 2006, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 27, 2006, 08:53 AM:
 
Maybe we should look at this problem from a different angle.What would happen if we were to reform the school system-start with grades K-6-teach kids basic fundimentals-reading writing and math-in grades 7-8 teach them geography and world affairs, history and how to act civilized.In grades 9-10 teach them life skills ie-learn how balance a check book what credit is how world finances work test each student for thier strength and desire for certain subjects then set that student down that path-then either send them to trade schools or community college-after 2 years at community college or trade schools we will then have an 18 year old who has the ability to be self sufficient or to go on to college-the ystem as it stands now is way out of date and needs complete refomation-I am a good example of what trade school eduactaion can do-2 years of trade school and when I left high school I landed a job at triple what min wage was and therefor was able to move out of my parents home and become a tax paying productive member of society.We then need to reform the university and college level programs to teach only the subject that the student needs to learn-I understand the need for a well rounded education,however all the information we need today is at our fingertips.If the student is a math wiz do not make him take geology classes-the student could terefor be out school in 2 years instead of 4-5.WE NEED TRADE SCHOOLS AGAIN!Owning my own shop I had to get young guys fresh out of high school and invest 2 years teaching them my trade-they would have made far more money far faster if they came out school with a usable trade or education.After all ouir goal for kids is to have them be stable tax paying members of society is it not?Maybe the answer to our homeless and crime problems can be repaired in just one or two generations with these reforms.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 27, 2006, 08:56 AM:
 
Sorry about the spelling.did not proof read it.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 09:14 AM:
 
I've never had kids so I don't know a whole lot about the educational system today, but I couldn't agree with you more on the trade school idea. Not everyone is cut out for college, and not everyone wants to do that kind of work. I certainly would have gotten more out of classes that taught me how to be a responsible adult than I did out of memorizing the dates of battles and learning trig and calculus. Prevention is far cheaper than trying to fix homelessness after the fact.

This is going to sound very naive, but did we used to have public trade schools? Were they an alternative to high school, or to college? I went to a prissy all girls high school and the trades weren't considered appropriate for women back then.

JB - do you know anything about the CAB project that was training women in the trades? How do the apprenticeship training programs that you run work?

One of the most difficult groups to work with were homeless kids that came from second or third generation homeless families. Most of them had never had role models of functioning adults in their lives and didn't have even the basic concepts of hard work and responsiblity down. It was so sad - half of them said that they wanted to be social workers when they grew up because we were the only employed adults that they knew. Somehow we have to find a way to teach those values to children who can't get them at home.
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on December 27, 2006, 09:16 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
...Come up with a real plan that is actually implementable and fundable, and that works for everyone and not just you...

Now, now Cagey - we've been over this one. PSB laid out his plan in an earlier thread, which included booting anyone who chose any drug other than pot, and anyone he found unacceptable.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on December 27, 2006, 09:23 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by ericr:
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
...Come up with a real plan that is actually implementable and fundable, and that works for everyone and not just you...

Now, now Cagey - we've been over this one. PSB laid out his plan in an earlier thread, which included booting anyone who chose any drug other than pot, and anyone he found unacceptable.
... and PSB would have to be in charge.
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on December 27, 2006, 09:26 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by flyfisher:
...We then need to reform the university and college level programs to teach only the subject that the student needs to learn- I understand the need for a well rounded education,however all the information we need today is at our fingertips.If the student is a math wiz do not make him take geology classes-the student could therefore be out school in 2 years instead of 4-

...After all our goal for kids is to have them be stable tax paying members of society is it not?...

OT, but I'd have to disagree - my breadth courses, while initially dreaded, turned out to be some of my favorites, and opened my eyes to concepts I hadn't even considered, even if the information was 'at my fingertips'. To me, that is the essence of education.

I'd hope that our goal is greater than turning out tax generating drones - otherwise, just send 'em to the UAW at 15 and get them generating.

Otherwise, trade schools seem like a good idea. I don't know enough about the past or present 'system' (if one exists) to understand (if they no longer exist) why they ceased to exist.

[ December 27, 2006, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: ericr ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 09:30 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by ericr:
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
...Come up with a real plan that is actually implementable and fundable, and that works for everyone and not just you...

Now, now Cagey - we've been over this one. PSB laid out his plan in an earlier thread, which included booting anyone who chose any drug other than pot, and anyone he found unacceptable.
... and PSB would have to be in charge.
I know. I already am crazy, so I get to do the same thing over and over again and expect to get a different result [Wink]

***

And Steve -

LMAO - better late than never.

I can't remember the password to that account or what I was apologizing for 2 or 3 years ago. I was completely nuts at that point, so it could have been any number of things.

(OK no rude comments about how nothing much has changed [Razz] )

[ December 27, 2006, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by lookwithin (Member # 1906) on December 27, 2006, 10:40 AM:
 
The CAB program, based in Watsonville, was designed to offer to women a basic Trades education, to prepare them for a formal apprenticeship in one of the Building Trades. It was backed by the construction Unions, who supply by far the majority of training in this field. I served on the founding Board of Women's Ventures.
It was originally conceived as a 12 week course, with a number of instructors from different trades, many of them women. Sexual politics aside, the program had some initial success. The last that I heard, funding was running out, and the program had been reduced to a 5 week period, and I do't know much about their current placement percentages, or their career success rate after, say, five years.
I recently taught a 12 week Pre-Apprenticeship class in Castroville, sponsored by the Monterey Bay Building and Construction Trades Council, and the Monterey Peninsula Unified School District. It was designed as a general survey course to give instruction in basic hand and power tool safety, construction math, and the basic processes involved in building (both for individual Crafts and how these Crafts interact on the job.)
Began with 15 students, and graduated 10 (3 women, 7 men). The program allowed for direct entry into the Carpenters Apprenticeship Program upon completion, but four of the graduates are taking exams for Sheet Metal, Plumbing, and Electrical Apprenticeships, and two are headed to the Cement Masons program.
The program, in its 5th year, was underfunded so that no stipend was available to the participants, many of whom held part-time jobs whie the class was progressing. Many Journeymen from various Trades volunteered as guest instructors and demonstrators. Materials funding came from the MBBCTCand private sources. Strong support came from the Carpenters, Cement Masons, Plumbers, Electricians, Drywall-Lathers, and Sheet Metal Unions.
The Program will continue in January(?) in Seaside, where a more or less permanent site exists. The redevelopment of the Fort Ord property offers a long-term sorce for new jobs in the construction industry.
So, that is one model that has met with some success, IMHO. The Santa Cruz County Office of Education has expressed interest in this project, perhaps with a delivery system through the ROPs, coordinated with the South county proposals on Building Trades education. [Smile]
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 27, 2006, 11:44 AM:
 
Eric I agree that taking other courses to broaden your education is a great idea-I just suggest that it not be mandatory to get the education that you need for your chosen field.My daughter is in her last year of Journalism at CSULB,the only problem she had at the school was getting requisite classes because they were full all the time.Because of having to take a Biology etc.class for a Journalism degree it will take her five years to complete the degree when it should only take four.I just suggest that our educational system is where we should begin to address the problem of crime and homelessness.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 11:57 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by lookwithin:
The CAB program, based in Watsonville, was designed to offer to women a basic Trades education, to prepare them for a formal apprenticeship in one of the Building Trades.

What kind of preparation is required for formal Trades apprenticeships? If a person with only the most rudimentary skills wanted to apprentice as a carpenter, what would they have to do? My recollection is that they needed a union sponsor, their own tools and to pay a few hundred bucks. Are there tests they have to pass to prove a minimum skill level? What exactly is the sponsor responsible for?

quote:
It was backed by the construction Unions, who supply by far the majority of training in this field. I served on the founding Board of Women's Ventures.
Cool - I didn't know you did that. Or maybe I did and just forgot, because I bet we would have put that in the GT ad. Did you have to pay the Unions to help or did they do it as volunteers?

quote:
The last that I heard, funding was running out, and the program had been reduced to a 5 week period, and I do't know much about their current placement percentages, or their career success rate after, say, five years.
It would be interesting to find out the long-term placement stats. Is five weeks really enough training?

quote:
I recently taught a 12 week Pre-Apprenticeship class... The program allowed for direct entry into the Carpenters Apprenticeship Program upon completion, but four of the graduates are taking exams for Sheet Metal, Plumbing, and Electrical Apprenticeships, and two are headed to the Cement Masons program.
Something like that would be amazing for homeless teens. It's hard for them to have the stability they need to attend classes when they're sleeping in the woods in or squats, but the kids in Above the Line (transitional housing for homeless teens)could really benefit from something like that. I bet people would be more likely to sponsor a kid than they were with homeless adults.
quote:
The Santa Cruz County Office of Education has expressed interest in this project, perhaps with a delivery system through the ROPs, coordinated with the South county proposals on Building Trades education. [Smile]
If you really get going on this one, I'll help with grantwriting and administrivia if you want. I'd love to see something like that happen, and once it exists there might be ways to slide a few homeless teens in there.

How do ROP's work?

You didn't have anything else to do today but answer all my questions, right? [Wink]
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 27, 2006, 12:01 PM:
 
Hi Cagey,as far as I know most programs have been shut down because of funding-to me the funding of a flawed system is the wrong thing to do.Our system as it stands now is the same as it has been for about a hundred years-it is designed to grow students to academecians-not all student are cut out to be engineers.Somebody has to fix the stuff they create.We need to have students come out of the system with the ability to support themselves and not have to work at micky D's.It must be very frustrating to an 18 year old to spend 12 years getting an education and having to work for minimum wage and seeing his dope dealer buddy driving a shiny new SUV with 20 inch wheels.It is no wonder at all to me why there are so many young people in jail today that were very intellegent and could have done something productive with their lives but instead turned to selling drugs or criminal activities.THE SYSTEM FAILED!and it continues to fail.Just as soon as we can get someone in the Oval Office that can see past the past,hopefully we can get some reform.Education/Trade is the key to getting the numbers of crime and homelessness to drop,it will take a generation or two,but it will be worth it 50 years down the road.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 27, 2006, 12:18 PM:
 
Cagey I was in a ROP in high school-I went there my junior and senior year for my first three classes[approx 3.5hours]got school credit for it.The program allowed me to get a job at about 3 times min wage right out of high school this was in 1984-more than enough to get a decent apt and car and pay all the adult bills that came my way.I feel for the kids coming out of the system now because they cannot even balance a check book-most do not even understand how credit works.The program I was in taught girls and boys-everyhting from resturaunt management to secretarial skills computer repair{what there was at the time}auto mechanics auto machining chef and baker skills.The program was then terminated by 1990{I wanted to hire a student from the program but it had been shut down.}I really feel that because of that program I was given the opportunity to live a full and self sufficient life that I might not have otherwise had.I came from a single parent home and could in no way afford to go to college{way to lazy to work and go to college at the same time}so the program was a wonderful thing for me.I am retiring from this profession in the next couple of years and will probably turn to teaching young people the skills I have learned in my spare time-more than likely with troubles youths who just need a little hope that thier future can be brighter than they have been told.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 12:30 PM:
 
I think I land somewhere between you and Eric. I would love to see K-12 education instill a love of learning and reading and exploring new ideas, but I also want kids that aren't college-bound to get out of school with some hope of being able to support themselves. I think it's probably possible to do both. I wasn't prepared to do a thing but work in retail or McDonalds when I got out of high school, and there was no question in my mind that I was going to college so that I could get a job that would get me out of the Bronx. Sometimes being a tax-generating drone is a step up in the world, and it's hard to have the luxury of life-long learning when you can't pay the rent.

I don't see the trades as lesser jobs at all. I live with 2 guys that work in those areas and they're happy as can be and make good money. They would hate sitting at a desk all day or in meetings like I do.

I'm not sure that schools can teach some of the basic character lessons that most of us learn at home, though. Opportunity is one part of the equation, but so are things like knowing how (and why) to work hard and stick with things that don't produce immediate benefit, developing a work ethic and learning how to resolve conflicts without anger or violence. I don't think that schools can or should take the place of strong parenting, but kids that don't get it at home need to learn those values somewhere if they want to succeed.

One of the most enlightening moments I had at the homeless center was with a third-generation homeless kid whose mom was sending him to score dope and hooking out of the same hotel room she had him sleeping in. The poor kid was obviously a mess and he and I became pretty close over the years. One day he asked me to lie to the cops for him and when I refused he cried for days because he thought I didn't care about him anymore. It was completely beyond his comprehension that some people don't lie to get what they want, so he couldn't understand that there was a principle at stake for me. There's more to making it than learning a skill, and I'm not sure how we turn that around.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 27, 2006, 12:44 PM:
 
Hi Cagey-I do not mean that we should turn out 'drones'I just meant that the system should be able to turn out self sufficient people that do not have to rely on welfare system to live.I feel that if the system has not taught the student basic reading writing and math by the 8th grade then that system has failed.It would be far better for the student if high school was reformed into teaching life skills than to rehash the same subjects that they already should have learned in the previous 8 years- most are just completely bored by then.And we all know that you cannot teach a bored student.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 12:56 PM:
 
I was quoting Eric on the 'drones' thing, but I do understand what he means. Learning to love ideas and getting a broader view of what's out there in the world is really important too.

I was one of the luckier bored kids because a nun got sick of watching me act up in class and then fidget, sigh and flop around dramatically all through detention. She made me help her figure out how to write a basic computer program and plan a class for the next year, and I've been able to make a decent living ever since. I don't think anyone should get out of high school now without at least being able to use desktop software. That's almost the equivalent of illiteracy these days.

[ December 27, 2006, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on December 27, 2006, 01:06 PM:
 
When I was in high school, teachers used to grade on a curve. Success was defined by leaving the losers in the dust. Other than adding more standardized tests to the mix, has anything changed?
 
Posted by Finucane (Member # 1052) on December 27, 2006, 01:25 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by flyfisher:
My daughter is in her last year of Journalism at CSULB, the only problem she had at the school was getting requisite classes because they were full all the time.

You're never going to win this argument. Journalists need a good science background. Biologists need a good English composition and critical thinking background. It's a job requirement, not just a nice idea.

Introductory undergraduate courses in California public universities are notoriously overcrowded. Your daughter should transfer the classes she needs from a Junior College, such as LBCC. Every student I went to school with who was paying their own way (including me and my wife) did the same thing at some point.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 27, 2006, 01:38 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
When I was in high school, teachers used to grade on a curve. Success was defined by leaving the losers in the dust. Other than adding more standardized tests to the mix, has anything changed?

We had straight numeric grading in high school, where 90+ was an A, 80-89 was a B, etc. It wasn't until I hit college that I really had to study hard to keep up with the kids with no social lives. I think curve grading in HS is a terrible idea. I don't think kids that age need to be constantly compared to everyone else and found lacking, or get the idea that you're some kind of superstar because they can be at the top of a 15 year old's curve. Is that really how they do it in HS now?

[ December 27, 2006, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on December 27, 2006, 02:20 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
I think curve grading in HS is a terrible idea. I don't think kids that age need to be constantly compared to everyone else and found lacking, or get the idea that you're some kind of superstar because they can be at the top of a 15 year old's curve. Is that really how they do it in HS now?

Finucane or others might know for sure, but I think there is now a tendency to pass most anybody who shows up for classes. Teachers let the standardized tests separate the winners from the losers. I'm not sure what's worse, bolstering self-esteem at the expense of functional competition, or visa versa.

Here's an example of school competition. If your school system administrator cheats on behalf of the right Governor, you can become Secretary of Education!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/06/60II/main591676.shtml
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on December 27, 2006, 02:26 PM:
 
Regarding the Patel family.
I have far too much time on my hands this week and am fighting off a cold so thought I would do a google on them. There are "lots" of them around and it appears that most of them are involved in one way or another in rentals or Motels.
I have never understood why so many of the smaller motels and hotels are owened by Indian families. Not that there is anything wrong with it but they must be getting some kind of government help or have an extreme amount of funds to draw upon to be able to purchase these properties.
When we were settling my Aunts estate in Richmond I had to spend a few days up there and we stayed in a nice little motel that was either managed or owned by an Indian family. Nice enough people but I can tell you that they were right on top of anything out of the ordinary going on within the premisis. Anyway, I found the following article interesting if for no other reason the number of Patels not only in the audience but on the panel.

http://www.ci.sf.ca.us/site/sro_page.asp?id=9028
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 27, 2006, 02:51 PM:
 
Just for info's sake "PATEL" is actually not thier surname it is discriptive of what the family does for a living.That is the way things are in Indian culture...I could be wrong about this...but it is what I have heard from a reliable source.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on December 27, 2006, 03:16 PM:
 
Patel is simply a very common name in India. It would be the same as having the last name of Smith or Jones in America.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on December 27, 2006, 03:31 PM:
 
My mother was in the hospitality business for 30+ years. The Patels are a rich Indian family that expands like a chain store. And motels are their number one business.

If "Patel" referred to their business, it wouldn't be on official government agency documents, which identify members of the family...
 
Posted by Pragmatist (Member # 809) on December 27, 2006, 03:38 PM:
 
Patel : Chief of village
This surname has originated from the province of Gujarat in India.

During the old days, people were classified in villages based on the work they did... Some where doctors, some were carpentars, some were blacksmiths, some were wine shopkeepers, etc, etc.... The chief of each village had a PATEL surname. Now in some places, it would mean that PATEL is a chief of 5 villages, and in some places, a chief of 1 village.
Surnames and Variants: Patel
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 27, 2006, 10:26 PM:
 
I only skimmed this, but you know what? The toilet in that filthy flop-house you call a shelter had never been cleaned until I arrived. They just went to the main building and used that one. Nor had the floor in the bunkroom been swept and mopped.

I did it, and I was the ONLY one that did it.

But you didn't even address my point, as I expected, but attacked me.

Let's talk about receiving $800-$1100 per month per person from a funding source, which gives you a minimum of $24,000/month to house 30 people, with as many as 8 to a room.

They are not allowed to be in their 'shelter' after 9 or 10 in the morning, I can't remember which, and can't get in until 4 or 5 in the afternoon, after the junkies with psyciatric problems get back from their touchy-feely sessions (in a van) and the staff counts their pills.

The chores are primarily make-work, evidently to give the 'good' homeless (the ones in 'a program') a sense of superiority, and to impress upon those not in a program that they too can be a big honcho and boss people around, just get on the recovery merry-go-round.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 27, 2006, 10:29 PM:
 
And, something I've always wondered, if someone walks, if they just say screw it and leave after a week or two, do you get the full $800 for them, or is it pro-rated?

Is there an advantage to getting people in there a few days and then running them off?

...

I sure have been seeing Marcos' brother Mickey a lot the past couple of days. I almost feel like I'm being buzzed. Must have 'ran into' him 5-6 times today.

One time he was walking down the street with the guy that was yelling I was preventing Murphey from getting into his locker, when Murphey was actually preventing me from using mine. The guy who helped give them an excuse to ban me.

[ December 27, 2006, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 28, 2006, 07:06 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
The toilet in that filthy flop-house you call a shelter had never been cleaned until I arrived. They just went to the main building and used that one. Nor had the floor in the bunkroom been swept and mopped. I did it, and I was the ONLY one that did it.

That is absolutely ludicrous and a complete lie. River Street Shelter has been there for almost 2 decades and as you pointed out, residents have chores every morning. That is a completely ridiculous statement, not to mention that the chances that you would have cleaned the whole shelter when you whine about light morning chores and about how it's too much work to walk a few blocks for a free shower doesn't even pass the straight face test.

quote:
Let's talk about receiving $800-$1100 per month per person from a funding source, which gives you a minimum of $24,000/month to house 30 people, with as many as 8 to a room.
Sure we can talk about it. Why don't you get the budget and their funding agreements so that you aren't just talking out of your *** again? It's not worth talking to you if you're going to make things up and repeat street rumors with no factual evidence. Real explanations don't require lying and exaggerating, btw.

quote:
...after the junkies with psyciatric problems get back from their touchy-feely sessions (in a van) and the staff counts their pills.
Well stated by the guy who pretends pot is a suitable medication as he rants at the world and refuses to use his SSDI for housing because it interferes with his drug habit.

quote:
The chores are primarily make-work
What chores? You just said that you were the only one to clean the place in 20 years. You really should work out the details of your lies a little better so that they don't contradict each other.

So I'm still waiting for your detailed plan of how to do it all better. Just like I thought...crickets.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 28, 2006, 11:41 AM:
 
Well stated by the guy who pretends pot is a suitable medication as he rants at the world and refuses to use his SSDI for housing because it interferes with his drug habit.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

And there is a toilet in the outbuilding (probably and old slave quarters...oh wait, you didn't have those here, do you? You called them servants quarters ... whatever) But anyway, it is not anyone's 'chore' to clean the bathroom I'm talking about. And perhaps it had been cleaned some time in the distant past.

But what's the difference. As I said, with friends like that, who needs enemies?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 28, 2006, 11:43 AM:
 
Can you really look yourself in the mirror and like what you see?

Can you really?

By the way, I really must commend the Sentine and Shannon McCord, or whoever it was that could write at least a dozen articles about your homeless 'services' over the past year and NOT ONCE mention that they discriminate against medical marijuana patients.

That is some real impressive investigative journalism.

I don't think I've ever seen anything like it, anywhere.

Which reminds me, if I can recover from all the assaults long enough to look something up, I will be looking at the funding source for the past couple of years, because (during the few seconds I have to think about it) it occured to me that REBELE is the funding source for that place and they have lost most of their government grants, so it isn't the feds, its REBELE that is discriminating against medical marijuana patients and treating them WORSE than junkies.

[ December 28, 2006, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 28, 2006, 11:56 AM:
 
Craig, if your idea of a friend is someone that agrees with whatever BS you spout, hustles up money to buy you the stuff you need and doesn't mind when you tell them to go to hell and that you're throwing it all out, doesn't find it odd that you'd call from the hospital for help shortly after you told them to go to hell, is willing to drive around to bring you stuff or let you shower and do your laundry when you're having a crisis but never points out the obvious illogic in your choices, good luck in finding one. That's my idea of a codependent fool, not a friend. If you want friends, stop being so abusive and thinking only of yourself.

And no I'm not happy when I look in the mirror, but it sure as hell has nothing to do with anything I've said to you.

And for god's sake River Street Shelter isn't even run by the same nonprofit as the Rebele shelter. At least lie about the right group [Roll Eyes]

[ December 28, 2006, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 28, 2006, 02:33 PM:
 
I am pushing for California to grant a BS degree for completion of a 5 year apprenticeship. God knows the academic rigor beats lib arts. My little card is among my prized posessions.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 28, 2006, 03:35 PM:
 
And for god's sake River Street Shelter isn't even run by the same nonprofit as the Rebele shelter. At least lie about the right group

Cagey, I do appreciate your help. But the fact is I have, through abuse and adversity that I could never imagine in my wildest dreams, managed to keep on keeping on, day after day after day. There is only one reason for this and it is cannabis.

The fact is, I had some things handed to me virtually on a silver platter as I was growing up, and I was not able to take advantage of them because of depression that was diagnosed about 15 years ago as bi-polar condition.

I do honestly believe if I knew what I know now I could have completed my education at Sewanee (aka The University of The South) and had a succesfull and fulfilling life, and a comfortable one. Most likely I would have been rich. My roommate is a low-level cabinet member now...

...now, I intend to figure out the genealogy of Barbara Hume (my I forgot how many greats grand-mother) before I die if I have to go through every Hume of Cowdenknows, every Hume of Manderston, every Hume of Tyningham, every Hume of Home and Home of Hume and Hume of Wedderburn and every other Home/Hume that, evidently, have been breeding like rabbits since the dawn of time.

I had intended to do that years ago. And since her father, Sir James was supposedly a knight and a baron, was one of two brothers, was married to Marjory (probably Johnstone), emmigrated in 1682 abord the Caledonia, was pardoned for daring to not pray from the King's book of prayer or some such nonsense at the intercession of their brother Hume with the condition that they emmigrate, arranged for the release of my I forgot-how-may-greats grand-father William Hoge, son of a knight, for also refusing to recite some nonsense on the same condition - that he immigrate, I don't think it's possible that there isn't evidence of the generation or so missing in my genealogy.

Particularly since a family member, around 1900, indicates that the family both knows and has records of exactly what the genealogy is at the dedication of the restoration of the church (probably the first in the state) they donated way back when...

And yes I know that Rebele Family Shelter and River Street Shelter are seperate corporations. Rebele wouldn't even consider a medical marijuana patient. At least River Street Shelter let me in, even if it was just to try to 'convert' me.

And, before this degerates into just another mud-wrestling match, I do hope to sit down and dispassionately go through this thread as, glancing through it as I have, there do seem to be some postive remarks worth commenting and expanding upon. But I can tell you that ain't likely to happen today.

[ December 28, 2006, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 28, 2006, 04:01 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Cagey, I do appreciate your help. But the fact is I have, through abuse and adversity that I could never imagine in my wildest dreams, managed to keep on keeping on, day after day after day. There is only one reason for this and it is cannabis.

Thanks Craig - I'm sorry I'm being so snarky today. I'm freaking out over my trees. It isn't really even the money that I'm so upset about. It sounds stupid, but whenever I start getting sick that's where I go to hide from everything until I feel better and now it's gone. I know I should feel lucky to have this place and not be crying over some trees. I have acres of trees but I really loved those ones.

I know it's disappointing to have nothing work out like you planned, and how scary it is to live with the fear and uncertainty about whether you can keep it together mentally. I hate it too.

I guess I just don't understand why you feel like pot is the best medicine when it costs so much and the cost leaves you homeless. I get the part about having to have faith in your meds. I have to believe mine are going to work well enough that I can keep it together because ...I just have to believe that or it's just too scary. That's why I keep asking you to tell me what 'working' means to you. Maybe if I understood that I would understand why you think pot is the best med for this. I'm Bipolar I and manic is the norm for me, not depression. I only had one major episode of that and I quit pot as soon as it got bad so I don't understand it as well as mania, or what pot does to relieve it.

quote:
...now, I intend to figure out the genealogy of Barbara Hume (my I forgot how many greats grand-mother) before I die...
Do you just want to know because you're curious, or do you get some inheritance if you figure it out, or are you trying to figure out the genetic connection to bipolar disorder or...? I'm not sure that I believe it's genetic (but it is kind of fun to remind my mom that it might be when she starts b!tching at me about it. [Wink] )
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on December 28, 2006, 04:15 PM:
 
It is certainly refreshing to know that Santa Cruz attracts the upper crust of the homeless. Mr. Bum seems somewhat of a sandbagger. I've said from the start he is a very good writer and should submit something somewhere, he sends stuff here all the time.

I think he should receive free pot from the government, it is cheap to grow, it is only expensive because it is illegal, and would get rid of a big expense for him. People will always say he's a fake and some fakes will appear, but that happens with all medications, particularly morphine derivatives like vicodin and oxycontin.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 28, 2006, 04:19 PM:
 
Do you just want to know because you're curious, or do you get some inheritance if you figure it out, or are you trying to figure out the genetic connection to bipolar disorder or...? I'm not sure that I believe it's genetic (but it is kind of fun to remind my mom that it might be when she starts b!tching at me about it.

Cagey, the fact is that (and I know I'm really going to regret this) Henry VIII was a grandfather. I have a grand-aunt that spent 7 years getting electro-shock therapy. My ggg (I think) grandfather, brother of Green Berry Holder (the first person to sell different fertilizers for different soils, among other things, a real old coot, crazy as hell but rich), but his brother Jesse (my grandfather) was declared insane.

Now, the Humes motto is "True to the End", which (best I can figure) meant until they ambushed you, slaughtered you and stole everything you had. I can imagine they found old Henry 'amusingly impetuous'.

However, among the other factoids about Barbara is that she was the grand-niece of David Hume the great philospher, which would be extremely difficult since he was born around 1711 or 1716 (I forgot, and he is a relative and I would like to be able to say exactly how he is related).

But David Hume of Godscroft (an ancestor of David Hume the great philopher) was of the right generation and was known as a great historian and writer, and he was also the genealogist of the great Hume family for his generation. Now, it would be chronilogicly correct for Barbara, who was 10 or 12 when she immigrated in 1682 to be David Hume of Godscroft's grand-niece, or great-grand niece.

And also make her related to David Hume the philosopher, and the Humes of Wedderburn and Blackadder and the various other hints and claims I've been able to accumulate.

As for inheritance, there is actually a branch of the family in American that have been granted a coat of arms or a peerage or something (and now that I think about it, English citizenship, so they have dual citizenship...now THAT would be useful...), in Virginia. And there is also a Barbara in that family but it couldn't possibly be my ggrandma. She would have to be a cousin. But they immigrated (were run out of England) around 1711 or so, best I can recall.

It's quite an interesting story. Evidently the man's wife hid him from the king and all his possee in a shed for months...

...but anyway, there is a Baron Hume currently, and I'm absolutely certain a long-lost relative such as me is something they DO NOT want around, and any relationship to any peerage or inheritance would be so distant as to be laughable (there are about 750,000 descendents of European royalty alive today in the United States I believe - they intermarried here only, not anywhere else - I would have to murder even more people than Bush could ever dream of to get to the throne...), and they could probably quash me like a bug if they felt so inclined, and the family has, historically, been rather brutal, barbaric, savage, murderous, and so forth...

...but no, I'm just want to have a correct genealogy. And I do find it interesting and somehow comforting to know that, even if all I got were his lousy genes, ol' Henry, among other famous madmen, was an ancestor.

[ December 28, 2006, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 28, 2006, 04:27 PM:
 
That's pretty interesting and cool. I don't know anything about my geneology. My mom tried to trace it once, but so many records were lost in Ireland during the potato famine and France during WW I and II that she couldn't find much out. I think she was hoping to find that we were related to the razor blade folks, but I think poor farmers was probably more like it. I guess I don't care if it's genetic - I didn't want to have kids anyway.
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on December 28, 2006, 05:20 PM:
 
PSB [QUOTE]
posted December 28, 2006 11:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you really look yourself in the mirror and like what you see?

Can you really?

By the way, I really must commend the Sentine and Shannon McCord, or whoever it was that could write at least a dozen articles about your homeless 'services' over the past year and NOT ONCE mention that they discriminate against medical marijuana patients.

That is some real impressive investigative journalism.

I don't think I've ever seen anything like it, anywhere.
/QUOTE]

Craig. Here is Shannas E-mail address and her phone number if you still have your cell phone. Write her an e-mail and express your concerns. Perhaps if you do it in a proper way and don't completely unload on her she might look into it for you?
You might also write a letter to the editor expressing your concerns. I know both of these may be long shots but they might be worth a try.

Shanna McCord, 429-2401
smccord@santacruzsentinel.com
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 28, 2006, 08:21 PM:
 
I guess I don't care if it's genetic - I didn't want to have kids anyway.

Nita Martha Holder, my 1st cousin 3 times removed, had the first hysterectomy. She married a Foster. One of those Fosters.

If you want to read the story, as told by George G. Morgan, my 3rd cousin 1 time removed, and professional genealogist who has had a column published on Ancestry.Com for a number of years, among other things, anyway, if you want to read about the first hysterectomy, click here: http://www.palmspringsbum.org/genealogy/10134.html

[ December 28, 2006, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 28, 2006, 08:24 PM:
 
I like her attitude [Smile]
 
Posted by lookwithin (Member # 1906) on December 29, 2006, 12:13 AM:
 
Cagey, regarding the CAB pre apprenticeship program:
No, 5 weeks are really not enough for this sort of a survey and introduction class. The placment and retention are the real issues on how to judge (uh, oh) a bad word. Prhaps "measure" would suffice.
Am sure that a 67% graduation rate from such a program is somewhat higher than whatever measuring device that any party could use. A 30% graduation rate for women (who can enter directly into Carpentry Apprenticeship should they so desire) (Castroville program) should be weighed agaist a Retention rate measured 5 years later.
Cannot remember the rest of your queries. [Cool]
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on December 29, 2006, 07:48 AM:
 
to be humane-let Saddamn blow a blunt before he swings

maybe hell like the sensation of hanging! [Wink] [Big Grin]

then-Im assured-he goes to heaven for murdering people-Like the Jihad beleive-

kill sum kiddies-go to heaven?(the Jihad freaks n suicide bombers beleive that?)
there burning or ingesting drugs far stronger then weed-or braindead from the start. [Frown] [Mad]

[ December 29, 2006, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by Sol (Member # 1130) on December 29, 2006, 08:54 AM:
 
I am pushing for California to grant a BS degree for completion of a 5 year apprenticeship. God knows the academic rigor beats lib arts. My little card is among my prized posessions.
-------------------------------------------------

WW, does this include those that hang drywall, stuff insulation and those that spray paint all day? I would be hard pressed to find a handful among them that have picked up a book since high school. Aside from being a journeyman plumber and licensed contractor, I hardly want to hand over what it took 10 years of going to college at night to also earn, my BSME.
Tradesmen want a degree? Great, they can earn it the old fashion way. Conversely I wouldn't want trade councils handing out rookie cards to economics grads anytime soon either. The logic is almost the same as the state having given unverified self employed credit towards a contractors license. while we're at it, lets pass out Md's to the graduate wand wavers from any number of alternative healing schools too including the Berkeley psychic institute.
Sorry, you want a degree, earn it. You want a trade, learn it...
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 29, 2006, 12:05 PM:
 
Imaham, here is a copy of an email Shanna McCord sent me January 5, 2006.

-------------------------------------------------

Good question. I’m not sure what the answer is. You could call 469-1700, ext. 132.

Thanks, and good luck.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J. Craig Canada
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:16 PM
To: smccord@santacruzsentinel.com
Subject: Affordable apartments proposed at site of burned Eastside church



Do you know if medical marijuana patients will be excluded? Will they drug-test like they do in every other subsidized housing in the city and county? Everywhere I've been makes you sign a statement that you will not be under the INFLUENCE of 'illegal' drugs...and they consider cannabais an illegal drug. I've been homeless 6 months now because I can't pass a blood-test...



Do they really believe EVERYONE has a right to clean safe housing? I doubt it.



J. Craig Canda

aka palmspringsbum



www.palmspringsbum.org


-------------------------------------------------

As I said, for investigative reporting I've never seen anything like it anywhere.

Oh, and thank you so much for supplying the email address and phone number. I'm such an idiot, I never could have found them myself...

...and thanks for reminding me about that email. It just occured to me a LOT of people are going to find that most interesting.

Most very very interesting. [Big Grin]

[ December 29, 2006, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on December 29, 2006, 12:21 PM:
 
PSB since you are here I would like to ask an unrelated question that has been bothering me since med.mari.had been voted in-Why is not just sold through a pharmacy like all other drugs?Not picking on med mari use (I voted for it)just curious as to the why.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on December 29, 2006, 12:55 PM:
 
I'm guessing it's because pharmacies are federally regulated, and dispensing MM would cost a pharmacy their license to sell every other drug, except "Head-On."
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on December 29, 2006, 12:57 PM:
 
Well, I see it's not just homeless and university chancellors you drive to suicide:

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2006/December/28/local/stories/02local.htm

Free speech lawyer Paul Sanford dies in apparent suicide
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 29, 2006, 01:12 PM:
 
Paul was a good man who really cared about homeless people. I think we're not talking much about it here because one of his bigger past critics posts here and it seems just too ironic and weird to touch.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 29, 2006, 01:19 PM:
 
What has more cachet, a degree in sheetrock taping or a degree in women's studies?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 29, 2006, 02:34 PM:
 
I don't know about cachet, but I have no idea what someone with a women's studies degree actually does for a living so sheet rock sounds pretty good compared to that.

[ December 29, 2006, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on December 29, 2006, 02:45 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
Paul was a good man who really cared about homeless people.

True. And one absolutely dedicated to every cause he embraced. His suicide is a true shame. No matter what things he may have occasionally done that were clumsy, he always did his best. I will miss him, and grieve for whatever pain he may have felt that drove him to feel suicide his only way out. May he rest in peace.
 
Posted by Sol (Member # 1130) on December 29, 2006, 03:49 PM:
 
WW, depending on what the Femstud degree was printed on, I think it would make fine corner beading for a taper.
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on December 29, 2006, 03:59 PM:
 
did they peetest Saddamns hangman???safety concerns?? that he may not be hanged right? [Razz]

[ December 29, 2006, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 29, 2006, 06:33 PM:
 
Anyone whose behavior suggests he is incapable of doing his job or is a danger to himself or others, a drug test might be a method of finding out why. We need a pee test for stupidity.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on December 29, 2006, 06:46 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
We need a pee test for stupidity.

LOL

That was great [Smile]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on December 29, 2006, 08:29 PM:
 
quote:
Do you know if medical marijuana patients will be excluded? Will they drug-test like they do in every other subsidized housing in the city and county? Everywhere I've been makes you sign a statement that you will not be under the INFLUENCE of 'illegal' drugs...and they consider cannabais an illegal drug. I've been homeless 6 months now because I can't pass a blood-test...
Wanna bet that our county affordable housing programs alse receive federal grant money? In that case, we know that the US Govt beauracrats wiil not permit medical marijuana use on their subsidized properties.

It wasn't a decade ago, that Clinton's HUD beauracrats abolished the Second Amendment. The feds searched public housing facilities for guns; wether or not a particular apartment, was being occupied by suspected convicted felons. Everybody was a suspect.

These kind of policies don't come out of thin air. It would hardly be news if the GWB administration got the idea of applying his predecessor's gun policy to marijuana use in public housing a decade later...
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on December 29, 2006, 09:22 PM:
 
did they peetest Saddamns hangman????Job safety ya know? [Big Grin] [Wink] [Razz] [Eek!] [Eek!] [Big Grin] [Wink] [Razz]
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on December 29, 2006, 10:13 PM:
 
During the early 80s while battling Ronnie Reagan and more specifically, his Budget Director, David Stockman, over Agent Orange and seemingly every other Vet issue, which were targets of the Conservative "Budget Knife", which made Ronnie a hero to some, several of our Vet Centers were raided and closed for using Ganja in Stress reduction, and facilitating conversation. They were called "Rap Sessions" back then, and, were just about talking about the experience, and getting folks involved. Not allowed. It's funny we've hardly advanced at all. It will be interesting to see if future Government entities actually take care of those they sent to war. My experience is that they'd better start organizing now. Tax breaks will take precedence.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on December 30, 2006, 12:40 AM:
 
quote:
It's funny we've hardly advanced at all.
Yah Buzz!

We have advanced a long way (in the wrong direction), since Robert Randall used to smoke his US Govt issued marijuana cigarettes on Johnny Carson, Tom Snyder and Geraldo Rivera's Goodnight America back in the 1970s.

Ronald Reagan revived Nixon's old policies. It's no accident, that you started getting hassled around 1981 or so. Beauracrats claimed that marijuana did nothing for Randall's glaucoma and it does nothing for vererans with PTSD

Lets have a Big Brother sponsored war on drugs. Our corrupt Congress refuses to test it's own members for illicit narcotics use, even after several hypocrites have been in trouble for breaking their own laws. Peeing in a jar is just for the STUPID little people, who elected these *******s...
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on December 30, 2006, 06:23 AM:
 
Perhaps a new name to get away from old hatreds?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 02, 2007, 02:17 PM:
 
Sure we can talk about it. Why don't you get the budget and their funding agreements so that you aren't just talking out of your *** again? It's not worth talking to you if you're going to make things up and repeat street rumors with no factual evidence. Real explanations don't require lying and exaggerating, btw.

This is one charge I have wanted to answer, but haven't had online time. I wasn't able to use the internet all day yesterday, or much of the past several days. The library was closed, I was broke, and I was too proud (or chicken) to beg. I can beg a cigarette, but I can't beg money. Go figure.

But how little time I have to use the internet, and freedom to use my computer in a way that is comfortable and efficient for me, is truly maddening.

I still think I want to sit down and go over this thread and answer or comment on some things, when I have the time. If I have the time.

But I also wanted to mention that it did occur to me that besides immunity to HIV (since they survived what probably was the plague) I wonder, now that Cagey mentioned it, if I didn't inherit a little more from those ancestors who, rather than say words that had no meaning or mouth outright lies, would go to jail, get out, cross the ocean and build a new world.

I got the first part down.

And I don't want to hear any offers of tickets on tramp steamers.
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 02, 2007, 05:06 PM:
 
I use the(experimental prototype) sweatmeter-( buddy gave me one to use on myself to test my weed)

to test the qaulity of my weed-

foolproof..

too bad the use I have for it wont be around much longer

once perfected-unless you run your own business(and even then yull hafta test to drive or Govt aid of any type)

the potscene will be over-long gone-dead in the water-when these sweatmeters are given to police-parents-and employers will be required to drug test-and test often...

ya wanna get high? guess ya hafta grab a bottle of booze-or pop some "TV pills"... [Wink] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Wink] [Razz] [Smile] [Big Grin]

and forget bus ticket offers-itll hafta be a plane ticket to Holland-and soon it will be outlawed there even.

[ January 02, 2007, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 02, 2007, 05:16 PM:
 
quote:
and forget bus ticket offers-itll hafta be a plane ticket to Holland-and soon it will be outlawed there even.
The
Islamic foreigners are breeding like rabbits over there too. You won't have any drugs of choice when they take over, except for their brand of old time religion. Clerics will turn a whole nation into a 24/7/365 "blue county" in Tennessee.

No more weed. No more booze...
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 02, 2007, 05:32 PM:
 
Like it or not, this country is still our last, best hope.

We need to decide whether it is cheaper to give PSB a warm place to toke and blog, or to spend $60,000 a month for his last three months in the hospital before we cart him off to Potter's field. I cranked up my AutoCAD after the housing discussion the other day, and a 20x8 container could accomodate a couple of friends or one grouch in sanitary conditions. 1500 watts wisely distributed would handle the energy requirements, and assume $40/mo for water, sewer and garbage, $100 electricity, $20 phone and whatever the debt service is on $10,000. How much would that leave you for champaign and pate', PSB?
Obviously we need real **** locations like under bridges, inside freeway loops and wherever, and a dial a ride or a community golf cart, but I will bet, hell I'll guarantee it would cost less than what we have now. The fact that it would also lend a bit of dignity to folk is one of those squishy liberal goals better left unsaid.
My cousin Howard died of TB he caught in a CCC camp and I've always missed him.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 02, 2007, 05:35 PM:
 
Craig, what could you theoretically afford to pay for rent both with or without the credit card bills, assuming that you could grow there?
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 02, 2007, 07:40 PM:
 
I suspect that PSB could make some contribution other than smokeables if the worry of a roof were removed. Start with the idea that people are valuable, and the rest follows.
PSB, just what would you do if you had a roof?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 02, 2007, 07:55 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
a 20x8 container could accomodate a couple of friends or one grouch in sanitary conditions....
Obviously we need real **** locations like under bridges, inside freeway loops and wherever, and a dial a ride or a community golf cart, but I will bet, hell I'll guarantee it would cost less than what we have now.

What are **** locations?

The cost of rain-proof structures isn’t the problem. Nobody wants a permanent shantytown in their back yard. It isn't going to happen.
 
Posted by lookwithin (Member # 1906) on January 02, 2007, 08:14 PM:
 
Lots of choices on how to get three hots and a cot.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 03, 2007, 03:32 PM:
 
Excretia locations - places where no one wants to build a house, like behind the gas house or along the tracks or next to the auto scrappers.
Louie's camp was on North B street next to an unused incinerator, across from a Butane station and a concrete batch plant and near canneries, and Sacramento's Hobo jungle was behind the Almond Growers, between the SP, the river, the WP and the Sacramento Northern. Probably prime poperty, now. Where would you put them in Santa Cruz?
It is up to you, because there ain't no votes in it for the guys who should decide.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 04:04 PM:
 
Cagey asked me how much I could afford to pay, and I actually sat down and did a thumbnail budget (noting on the way I have no spreadsheet, no database, no MSWorks - I thought I had Works at least on here, no nothing except word pad and a calculator...imagine what I could do if I had some software...but anyway) and then on my way here I saw this:

The new $300 penalty also will hit people who broke city ordinances and didn't take care of their tickets.

"It could be anything from [running] a red light to speeding to camping to walking a dog without a leash," said Roy Blaine, assistant executive officer of the Santa Cruz County Superior Court.


You know, I was having a nice day. I actually sang a little this morning though my voice still hasn't healed from screaming "Go To Hell" until I couldn't scream any more. And this deep bronchial infection seems to be clearing up a little, even though my nasal resonators are pretty much completely damped.

But anyway..why bother?

I mean really?

This is a very consistent pattern here in Santa Cruz. About the time I get my bearings you knock me down again. Sorry, I'm punch drunk. I was punch drunk when I got here.

I'm too mad to even try to read this thread now, much less participate or respond.

[ January 03, 2007, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 04:31 PM:
 
Craig, did you ever talk to Barisone's office (the city attorney) about dismissing your ticket, or did Robert? If you can't get it dismissed before court, there are some key things to point out to the judge if you do go to court. Email if you want more info on this. I doubt you could get a letter from the shelter stating that they denied you services, but I can write you a letter telling them that they told me that, and remind them that there are no shelter services for medical marijuana patients. What date did you get the ticket on? I can also write you a letter that might help in Barisone's office depending on who sees it, or give them a call. I'll need the citation number if you still have it, but it won't be hard to get from the PD. IIRC, these things are pretty easy to fight if you have help.

[ January 03, 2007, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 04:34 PM:
 
Start with the idea that people are valuable, and the rest follows.

Something many people claim to do but few actually practice. And enough to bring me back to spend a few minutes trying to answer your question:

PSB, just what would you do if you had a roof?

Rest. I might shut the door and not open it for a month or longer.

Grow.

Write.

I would most likely attempt to influence some of the decisions being made around here, and most likely would make a run for some local office next election.

You can be sure I will be watching this Office of Compassionate Whatever like a hawk...

Besides the computers, MHCANN did have a decent Yamaha piano. Unfortunately, about the time I had got my hands in shape to really play, they 86d me. But even though it's been over a year, I could probably pick up a few bucks playing Joplin Rags, if I had some time to work them up. I might (or might not) do some accompaniment work, either for money or to get connected, or just because. I actually have thought I might go down and play for the mission, if they wanted me, if they didn't have anyone. But I don't like to say what I will do, I'd rather say what I have done. And I'd really like for people to say when I die that I was kind and generous and ..., well, all that stuff.

The have a pianist a Elm Street recently that is good, except she plays FAR too fast for an accompanist. When I listen to her I can hear the frustration as she comtemplates the next embellishment and tries to impress with speed rather than...finesse. A mistake that I was so very guilty of.

My mother remembers when I was 13 and hired to play for the local First Presbyterian church. Evidently those people recognized talent and wanted to help me, but I just wouldn't slow down.

It was one of those times when the community, and it was the leaders and businessmen of the local community, tried to help me. But I didn't realize it. They tried so hard to slow me down...I ended up quitting.

I just couldn't relax, one of the reasons so many muscians worship the bud, I suppose. It allows them to relax and let the music flow THROUGH them rather than pushing it and rushing.

But I digress...

One thing I would do is work on housing issues. The fact is, your programs aren't all that evil, corrupt and broken, or wouldn't be if they would do everything they could to ENCOURAGE the use of cannabis when appropriate. I would actually like to see a recovery program centered on cannabis harm-reducition/substitution and track the participants for 10 years, 20 years, or even life, and compare it to the abstinance models. And I bet Mikuriya would consider it the opportunity of a lifetime to design one...

[ January 03, 2007, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 04:38 PM:
 
Wow. You never told me that you played the piano. That's pretty cool.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 04:50 PM:
 
I have played oboe, clarinette, guitar, organ, piano, and I sing. In high school I placed in the top all-state band first on clarinette, and twice on oboe. I couldn't play either now and don't really want to. I was a prodigy on piano.

After I dropped out of Sewanee, and Jacksonville State, I got a scholorship in music at Birmingham Southern. I auditioned on keyboards. They asked me what I wanted to do and I replied; 1) learn how to sing, and 2) be able to hear a piece of music once a write down all the parts - i.e., to compose.

The gave me an opera singer, Rachel Mathis (who sang for both the City and The Met professionally) to teach me to sing and I have a fine lyric baritone, still. I didn't do so well on theory. While I have good relative pitch and can remember (and sing) every melody I've ever heard (like a photographic memory for melody), I eitehr had difficulty hearing intervals or just didn't get it. I can pick things out easy enough, and often can actually hear something and sit down and play it, but not reliably and not predictably, and it isn't composition, really.

After the first church thing, a small community church, I did play for the second largest church in town. Northside Baptist. One of those big churches with a fine Baldwin grand and an electric hammond pipe organ with the drawbars. I played the 'special music' for the service and also had the youth choir. The finest compliment I recevied was one night when I took a bottle of Jack Black in there and worked up Toccata and Fuge on that hammond. There were two boys hiding in the pews, to listen....

I also was musical director for the community theatre, playing the performances. South Pacific. Not an easy score to play ALL BY YOURSELF.

I was also pianist for the high-school choir. I probably did some other things too but I don't remember.

My uncle Bert was a fine pianist and so was my aunt connie. And my grandfather Jack was known for singing, and organizing the local rock concerts (the gospel all-day singings).

But I digress...

[ January 03, 2007, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 05:10 PM:
 
You sure are talented. I don't know how to do anything musical or artistic. Even things I can do like knitting and crocheting are mostly mathmatical other than the design itself.

There's got to be some way to get you off the street so you can do this stuff again. Are you any good at teaching? Maybe you could give lessons somewhere.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 05:40 PM:
 
I might be an excellent teacher for some but would probably be a disaster for most. I don't think I have the patience to teach. And I'm not sure what I would do with a beginner. Set them down with Bartok's Mikrocosmos? I doubt that would work...

That period of my life, was when everything blew up. When I say "I dropped out" I'm co-ing. It wasn't that simple and the fact was, while I wasn't by any stretch perfect, I was sabotaged.

For instance, I 'dropped-out' of Southern because they didn't pay for the materials (best I can recall) for the mini-mester. They were on a tri-mester system with two semesters and one minimester where you studied one topic for a month or so. I think the materials were $100-$200. I was working as a waiter and my friend Jenks (James J. Venable, III, Jr, scion of a director of the Birmingham Country Club, rich, manufacturer or urinals, with an arboretum off their living room enclosing a cliff with priceless bonsai in the niches, like 500-year-old chinese maples that were 18 inches high and perfectly formed...but I digress...

...Jenks was pissed at me, evidently, and caused a scandal at the restaurant, squaking in a loud voice as we were having dinner there one day about his boyfriend the doctor in Atlanta who was into S&M and would write him a script for anything he wanted... and how he was in love with pills...

...he evidently knew the country-club ladies were there (I suspect Carolyn was trying to help me...), and so by the time he was through the restaurant was ruined and I was ruined.

So I asked my mother for help (my father had extended himself to the max to get me a car and pay some of my expenses). I remember holding my grades from the first semester as I was being ordered off the property by her husband (as she sat there bawling) and threatened with arrest for tresspassing if I didn't leave.

Well, I got that off my chest.

So, when I say 'dropped-out' I am co-ing. And now you know what I mean by co-ing.

And I'd say it's time for yet ANOTHER bowl.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 06:17 PM:
 
You're absolutely right - this stuff does sound like Mayberry meets Truman Capote (minus the bonsais) [Smile] I love the 'ruined' image. To ruin a restaurant in the Bronx you'd have to burn it down.

Who is Carolyn and why was she trying to help?

Wasn't Jenks ruined too? What happens to someone when they become ruined? Is it like being shunned by the mormons?

You should write. I'd pay to read this stuff. You're the first person I ever met that has seen the inside of that world and it's fascinating.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 06:34 PM:
 
Carolyn Cortner Smith:

I think a lot about roads not taken, specificly Carolyn Cortner Smth (Symthe), and about Aunt Agnes. Particularly around Thanksgiving, and have been meaning to mention them here.

I met Carolyn when I was on a music scholarship at Birmingham Southern. I was renting an apartment from her in Southside in Birmingham. She asked me up to her house, which was a stone mansion she had designed herself. She told me she was the first female architect in Alabama and explained the house was built with pipes in the walls - she was quite proud of it, and rightly so. She explained she opened the pipes in the summer and the convection kept the house cool and she didn't need air-conditioning, and in the winter she closed them and the air insulated the house and it was easy to heat.

The living-room (banquet hall?) was lit with huge beautiful stained glass windows, and she explained they were the coats of arms of the seven royal families she was descended from and asked me if I knew anything about the royal colony in Dothan. And she was familiar with me, as if I was one of 'them'. And now that I've had a chance to work on my genealogy, I see that I am - or as much one of 'them' as she was. We're probably cousins and she probably knew this, or supposed we were.

She had a stack of canvasses in the living room. She'd just been to China (this was back around '76 when you had to be SOMEBODY to get in China) and explained this was primitive chinese art - something which didn't interest me but I did ask if my friend Jenks could see them, as he was an artist and would probably appreciate them. And Jenks was from an old family, Venable, that had a big house in Homewood so I assumed I wouldn't put her in a compromising position...

...she asked me to live with her and I refused. I see now she was a patron, the thing I've been looking for all my life, and that more than one of her proteges are renowned artists.

This happened when I needed about $300 to finish the semester at Southern and had gone to my mother and her husband to ask for help, and had been ordered off the property and told I would be arrested for trespassing if I didn't leave.


http://www.palmspringsbum.org/blog/2006/01/roads-taken-and-not-taken.html

Coincidently, Rachel encouraged me to just go to Hollywood and try my luck, but I didn't have the confidence. My high-school classmate, Sammy Goldstein did and landed a 20-year piano-lounge gig on the Love Boat...

...we actually sang for each other at a gay karioke bar in Palm Springs one night. I didn't realize who he was at the time, just that he seemed very familiar, though I think he may have known who I was as Vanessa (a Mormon girl I dated in high-school) evidently kept touch with him and went to a concert he held in Memphis or somewhere a couple of years ago.

I was better.

Carolyn was quite a grand old dame and would have made a great grand-duchess. She had everything but the title...

...also at that time I was asked if I'd ever thought about the news when I talked to the director of the public TV station about work-study, I think. I didn't have the confidence to accept the offer...if that was what it was.

I suspect Carolyn had something to do with that. She was on the board of Southern I think, or one of it's donors. She had pull. And family. And money. All that stuff.

quote:
When in downtown Decatur, visit Delano Park, a historic greenspace that has been preserved by the City of Decatur. The park was founded in 1877 when the well-known New York architect, Nathan Franklin Barrett, was selected to design Decatur, then called the "Gateway City," with a large park running through the town. Carolyn Cortner Smith, Alabama's first licensed female architect, designed the stone structures in the park that were built by the WPA in the 1930's.

http://cramer.house.gov/HoR/AL05/5th+District/Morgan/Morgan+County.htm


Carolyn was very proud of that park.

And speaking of Mayberry, while there are only 3 Andrew Jackson Griffiths and one Andy Lee Griffith among my relatives, there are 319 (and counting) Griffiths.

http://www.palmspringsbum.org/genealogy/search.php?mylastname=GRIFFITH&lnqualify=equals&mybool=AND&tree=Legends

[ January 03, 2007, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 06:52 PM:
 
Thanks for that link - it was really interesting. I understand why you didn't take her up on any of it, but it sure stinks. I can't imagine what it must have been like growing up in an environment that had such rigid expectations. Is that what your mother's husband's problem with you is?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 07:00 PM:
 
I found a picture of one of Carolyn's homes, designed 'the old way' I'm sure.

 -

Zeitler – Hill – McLain Home
Construction began in 1927 and completed in 1945. The construction was slowed during the Great Depression and completely halted during World War II, when only goods for military use were produced. The home was designed by Carolyn Cortner Smith, one of Alabama’s first female architects. The home has the charm and accoutrements of a 19th Century home with beautiful heart of pine floors and an impressive open foyer.

http://www.mooresvillealabama.com/homesTour.html

[ January 03, 2007, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 07:10 PM:
 
That's beautiful. It's the kind of place that makes you want to wear a hoop skirt and dramatically oversized hat. Well, you probably don't want to [Smile]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 07:13 PM:
 
Is that what your mother's husband's problem with you is?

You know I don't know. And yes, it was very rigid. I was the brightest one of that generation at least, and some said the brightest child they'd ever seen. I was supposed to restore the family to prominence...

...that was what was expected of me. I wanted to be a musician and I was told it would cost too much and I wasn't good enough by my parents. But they would pay to send me to Sewannee or Georgia Tech (even if I was on a scholorship it still cost thousands since I was on an academic scholorshp and not an atheltic scholorship).

I studied physics in order to know how to use a synthesizer, slept through the classes and aced the course...

I graduated in the top 10% of my class even though I essentially dropped out the last semester of my Senior Year of high-school due to a disasterous affair with my cousin Jon, a year older, in Chicago.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 03, 2007, 07:13 PM:
 
Joplin rag! Dang.
Find Santa Cruz locations for cabanas. Tell Santa Cruz to take half of what they spend rousting bums and put it into cabanas. [I decided cabana is a better term than hootch or box]
Sacramento used to give vagrants a choice - 30 days in jail or a years' floater. The floater was an order to not get caught in county in that year or you got a year in jail.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 07:18 PM:
 
And it's BRICK. That means a lot in Alabama.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 03, 2007, 07:19 PM:
 
quote:
I have played oboe, clarinette, guitar, organ, piano, and I sing. In high school I placed in the top all-state band first on clarinette, and twice on oboe. I couldn't play either now and don't really want to. I was a prodigy on piano.

And now you lie in your own filth and complain that people wont give you free stuff whilst puffin a doob. Wow. You were the great hope of your family? [Roll Eyes] Hate to see the rest of your clan.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 07:23 PM:
 
And now you lie in your own filth and complain that people wont give you free stuff whilst puffin a doob.

That is an ad hominem attack.

It is a defamation and a lie.

I am disabled, therefore it is abuse of the disabled.

I demand an apology.

And it should be a violation of the TOCs.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 07:28 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
And it's BRICK. That means a lot in Alabama.

Why does that mean a lot?

I have to admit that I'm curious about the disastrous affair, but not if it's too depressing to talk about or not the kind of thing you'd talk about in public. I'm so nosy.

[ January 03, 2007, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 03, 2007, 07:37 PM:
 
Deleted. I hope Ditto has the decency to do the same.

[ January 03, 2007, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 07:38 PM:
 
Tornadoes, for one thing.

It's expensive, for another.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 07:40 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
Could you find a weaker non-combatant to attack?

Really. I'm sure there's a puppy needing to be kicked somewhere until someone starts talking about Clinton again [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 07:44 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Tornadoes, for one thing.

It's expensive, for another.

For some reason when I was a kid I always wanted to live in a brick house with ivy growing on the sides (if I couldn't have a thatched roof, that is.)

I've been reading that Loretta stuff. She sure is something. What, I'm not sure.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 07:44 PM:
 
I have to admit that I'm curious about the disastrous affair, but not if it's too depressing to talk about or not the kind of thing you'd talk about in public. I'm so nosy.

I don't have any qualms about it, but my uncle Bob has already accused me of killing my father...who really died of diabeties and too much smoking, fast-food and so forth, after a quadruple-bypass...

... my father died as I was going to trial ten years ago for sales and possession for sales of less than an ounce of marijuana. An article appeared about me in The Bay Area Reporter which they got hold of, maybe I sent it to them...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 07:46 PM:
 
My mother got ahold of an article the Sentinel wrote about me because my idiot of a sister sent it to her, and it caused such a fight she didn't talk to me for over a year. I didn't even get arrested in it.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 08:03 PM:
 
Well, I haven't really thougt about all this in a long time, but along with having a liason with my male cousin...I also was inviting a black classmate, Vesta Coleman over to our house and making sure she came in the front door. This was during the race riots. Vesta played clarinette and the first chair was always a toss-up between us. We were working up some numbers for All State competition. Her father was either the principle of the 'black' high school or the local rable rousing minister (that means he had busts of Kennedy and King in the living room and read books).

I remember we had a WAC Sergeant living behind us, Sidonia Geiger, from Napa. Everyone assumed she and her friends were lesbians, after all they were WACs...

...but they didn't stick out and were good neighbors. They were very good to me. The Smiths lived next door (Sheila and David were presidents of their classes, Mr. & Mrs. popular, etc. their father was a chemist at Monsanto). Colonel Gilliam lived across the street.

But I do remember there was talk about a BLACK LESBIAN trying to buy a house and my parents were asked to go in with some other neighbors and buy the house out from under them...

...so when the high-school band went to Mexico City for something or other I was accused of selling drugs to this guy (very cute, very friendly, Mexican, father worked for the government), showed us Chapultapec park and the 'real' Mexico...at least a few minutes of it.

I had a poloroid camera and he said they didn't have those in Mexico and offered to buy it from me. I was accused of selling him drugs, there was a big brou-ha-ha and I figured it had more to do with me being gay and a '******-lover' than anything else and said to Hell with it. All I wanted to do was get out of there...

...and my parents were absolutely no help at all. My mother certainly wasn't. I doubt she even knows half of this or the other stuff I was dealing with, and probably doesn't care.

[ January 03, 2007, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 03, 2007, 08:17 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
[QB]I also was inviting a black classmate, Vesta Coleman over to our house and making sure she came in the front door. This was during the race riots.

Good for you. Was it the kind of place where everyone in town knows who came in your front door in an hour?

quote:
... or the local rable rousing minister (that means he had busts of Kennedy and King in the living room and read books).
LOL great description

I was equally shocking to my relatives, but not for reasons half as interesting. You really should write a book about all this. I can picture it so clearly from your descriptions and it's cool how you see the good parts in the midst of all the bizzaro ideas.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 08:52 PM:
 
As I said, I haven't thought about this all in a long time. I never had time to sort any of it out, not in my entire life.

But during that time I remember my mother begging me not to become involved with a black girl, evidently concerned I would become involved with Vesta. That was laughable.

I remember they even sent me to a psychiatrist who tried to explain to me that 'these old southern families get less upset about homosexual relationships than interracial ones'.

I remember thinking, "what does that have to do with me? I'm not 'carriage trade'"

Well, little did I know, I was born carriage trade and always will be, whether I have a carriage or not.

This particular psychiatrist's son committed suicide shortly after that.

So did the son of my nursery school teacher Mrs. Pickett.

Yes, I really should write a book.

By the way, did you know Harper Lee was descended from Thomas Jefferson, through her mother FINCH. I did a cursory search the other day and found a genalogy for her on RootsWeb.

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=arc150&id=I086401

And her father was Amosa Lee, and I'll bet he was one of THOSE Lee's, though the genealogy I found didn't list any of her father's ancestors...and isn't that odd?

Atticus Finch, Amosa Lee + Finch. Not autobiographical my *** .

That woman told it like it was. But when the yahoos came with the pitchforks there was no Scout to save me...

[ January 03, 2007, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 03, 2007, 09:03 PM:
 
Hot Damn!!!

Harper Lee's a cousin!

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=arc150&id=I071995&style=TEXT

In fact, it looks like we are cousins several times over. It would take me a week or two to trace all the connections, but it looks like we are related half a dozen ways.

And I bet those Courtenays are Cortners, Carolyn's ancestors...though I've already surmised she was a cousin through the Kings & Hills.

Now, if I can only tie Margaret Mitchell to my gggrandfather Mitchell...

...I have been sitting here clicking back through Harper Lee's pedigree, murmering good lord every few minutes. We have dozens, and perhaps hundreds, of common ancestors.

...and my internet access will end in less than an hour. Yes, I could go to LuLu's, but I'm too frugal to spend $2 for an hour of internet time.

And this would take hours, just to do a preliminary survey.

OH MY!  -

On the homepage of the genealogist of the genealogy of Harper Lee (a descendent I assume) I found this (a family picture I assume, a wedding picture).
 -

http://www.octoraro.org/~coe/

Maybe it's a good thing my internet access will be ending soon. This is getting too surreal.

Things that make you go "Hhhmmmmmm...."

You see, after writing all that about Vesta and my mother and the psychiatrist and Harper Lee I decided to check out the website of the genealogist, and that picture happened to be the one in rotation when I clicked...

...and if I hadn't clicked at that precise moment I might never have seen that particular picture.

[ January 03, 2007, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 04, 2007, 06:06 AM:
 
quote:
I am disabled, therefore it is abuse of the disabled.

You seem healthy enough to farm your weed. Why not go to monterey and pick lettuce or some other 'job americans dont want'? Earn an income instead of subjecting others to your parade of pitty.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 04, 2007, 06:09 AM:
 
I'm starting to think those rumors about how everyone in the south is related to everyone else might be true [Wink]

I read both To Kill a Mockingbird and Gone with the Wind at night with a flashlight under the covers when I was about 10 or 11 because my mom thought they were too adult for me and that I read too much. GWTW was the ultimate in romance for a pre-teen girl, but I really should read TKAM again as an adult.

So whose family is that in the picture? Harper Lee's?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 04, 2007, 06:16 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ditto:
quote:
I am disabled, therefore it is abuse of the disabled.

You seem healthy enough to farm your weed. Why not go to monterey and pick lettuce or some other 'job americans dont want'? Earn an income instead of subjecting others to your parade of pitty.
Oh, probably for the same reaason that you subject the rest of us to your wacko nasty attitude and endless spouting of childish hatred and bitterness. Why don't you take up a sport or something to help you work off some of that agro energy? Or maybe you could get some couseling to help with that little anger management problem of yours. You know it's bad when 2 admittedly diagnosed folks are talking and you're the one sounding like a wack job.

[ January 04, 2007, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 04, 2007, 10:17 AM:
 
You know it's bad when 2 admittedly diagnosed folks are talking and you're the one sounding like a wack job.

Especially in this conversation.

I didn't do more than glance at it, but I'm assuming the groom is a descendent of Harper Lee's, but considering she was a descendent of Thomas Jefferson...

You asked about Jon? Well, when I saw David Duchovney in the X-Files it was like looking at my cousin Jon. Now I may be guilding the lilly, but they look and move exactly alike. The same gestures, and the same distinctive Chicago nasal accent. I've even spent a few seconds wondering if my cousin changed careers and became David Duchovny.

He was just as handsome, and just as charming.

I first saw Jon at a family reunion. My father's family had them about once a year most of the years I was growing up. All of them I can remember. Actually, they had gatherings several times a year. Uncle Red (with the still in his back yard across the street from the mission church) always had his 4th of July barbacue. He was the one I told you about.

When I was five or so he had just finished a batch of muscadine wine he was very proud of and the men were 'sampling' it. Well, when I wanted some they decided to give me a little.

It was liquid fire. White lightning. Moonshine.

And it was a long long time before I ever wanted to try that again.

But anyway, I think it must have been Thanksgiving when they gathered, though it could have been Christmas. We're talking about 50 people here that are either my father's parents, brothers or sisters, or their children. And about 10-15 sleeping in my grandmother's 100+ year old log cabin. In a forest in the hills not all that different from here, except the ocean was in Florida and the terrain wasn't quite as rugged - the rough edges worn off - and the trees not as big.

The Cherokee called it The Enchanted Lands, and it does have a very special magic.

My uncle Taylor and his wife and six children had a cabin just up the road a piece, maybe a 10-15 minute walk past my grandma's house and there was probably another half dozen or so bedding there.

Just those two cabins and nothing else for miles except pristine forest - owned by one member or another of the family.

And that's where I first saw Jon. And, surprising to me, he seemed to like me. It wasn't long before he invited me for a walk in the woods. And I do recal it seemed one of my Uncles encouraged me to do so.

Seems Jon had some weed, and we smoked a joint. Chatted awhile - I felt I'd found a friend, and he was also family...

...and we went back and had some pumpkin pie. I remember one of his sisters smirking something about that being the best pumpkin pie he'd ever had. She knew we'd smoked a joint.

He seduced me. It was a total surprise, but absolutely not unwelcome. But the thing was, after that I could feel his presence around me. We had a psychic connection. And I have wondered if that doesn't have something to do with the genetic closeness.

I really didn't think much about it. Or him. I wasn't a virgin. And he certainly wasn't. Besides, he'd evidently also been playing with at least one (female) friend of my cousins, if not some of my other cousins, and it looked to me like he was just trying everything he could get...and with his looks...

But he wrote me and called and I do remember one time I knew he was going to call and picked up the phone before it rang. My mother was standing there and I told her Jon was going to call before the phone rang. Or something like that.

He suggested we plan to spend the summer together, and go to California - to give ourselves time to find out if, well, to find out if.

Evidently his parents couldn't figure out why he wanted a ticket to Alabama to see me for spring break rather than go to Aspen or wherever with them, so he told them. I was playing South Pacific at the time at the community theatre and one day, his presence was gone. It was like someone turned off a switch. I drove up to DeKalb, where he was in his first year of university, and I'll never forget that drive - through a god damned string of tornadoes in the middle of the night in the mountains.

Evidently someone had called his parents, probably my parents, and they arrived the next day.

But I had just confirmed what I knew before I left.

The best I can figure, they gave him the choice of spending the summer with me in California and paying for his own education, or ending it.

I drove home and took a bottle of pills. While I wouldn't call it a serious suicide attempt, it would have been fine with me if I died.

My mother doesn't remember this, but she found me. And I remember her saying, "It's not the end of the world," when I opened my eyes.

South Pacific was opening that night at the community theater and, after calling the doctor, who was Mac McAnally the country singer's father and lived up the street from us (Mother tells me his wife bought our house after they divorced and lived there till she died.) - but she called the family doctor who told her what I took couldn't kill me and the best thing to do was keep me moving and give me lots of coffee and call him if I fell asleep. And she did just that. And took me to the theatre and walked me outside and fed me coffee until the curtain. And I played that damned opening night somehow.

And I played the rest of the performances.

And, by the way, the whole town knew I had OD'd and why.

[ January 04, 2007, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 04, 2007, 11:36 AM:
 
quote:
You know it's bad when 2 admittedly diagnosed folks are talking and you're the one sounding like a wack job.

The opinion of an admittedly diagnosed folk doesnt impress me. PSB cries and whines about living on the streets yet he can afford a laptop and kick out 2 bucks an hour for net time. Hes healthy enough to harvest maryjane but cant go get a job to improve his lifestyle. I have no sympathy. His priorities are misplaced.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 04, 2007, 11:45 AM:
 
You really don't need to be ashamed for needing help with your emotional problems. Lots of people do. Lashing out cruelly at a homeless disabled vet in a way that's completely out of context to the conversation going on is just a bit, well, embarrassing to read. From what I hear, the VA has really good services for vets that need some help getting it together emotionally after coming home. You'll be ok [Smile]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 04, 2007, 11:56 AM:
 
We are all still better served if PSB has an affordable sanitary shelter. I went without a bath once for two weeks. When the shower unit finally reached us, I believe they burned our undies rather than try to launder them.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 04, 2007, 12:06 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
He was just as handsome, and just as charming.

Lucky you [Smile]

quote:

And it was a long long time before I ever wanted to try that again.

I had this alcoholic grandmother whose mission in life seemed to be to get me to drink brandy with her. The smell still makes me mad to this day. I hate the taste of hard liquor.
quote:

Seems Jon had some weed, and we smoked a joint. Chatted awhile - I felt I'd found a friend, and he was also family

That must have been great considering how judgmental most people around you were. Family sounds really important to you. I don’t do too well with mine either, but I just grit my teeth, try to fake being what they want for a week and keep the peace.

quote:
But the thing was, after that I could feel his presence around me. We had a psychic connection. And I have wondered if that doesn't have something to do with the genetic closeness.
Who knows? I used to think that there was a person I could feel that way, but now I don’t let myself believe in anything that I can’t prove to myself is real. It's boringly rational but I feel safer that way.

quote:

The best I can figure, they gave him the choice of spending the summer with me in California and paying for his own education, or ending it. I drove home and took a bottle of pills. While I wouldn't call it a serious suicide attempt, it would have been fine with me if I died.

Well I’m glad you didn’t. My mom pulled the same thing and told me that I had to settle down and stay at home and behave or I couldn’t go to college. I got a scholarship instead.

quote:
And I remember her saying, "It's not the end of the world," when I opened my eyes.
It never is, even when you wish it was sometimes. She sounds like she cares about you a lot, even if it's not always perfect.

quote:
And I played that damned opening night somehow. And I played the rest of the performances.
That’s pretty cool. I couldn’t have pulled it together that fast.

quote:
And, by the way, the whole town knew I had OD'd and why.
Tell me about it. There’s nothing like having the absolutely worst moments of your life happen with an audience and then having to hear about it forever. Ugh.

And yep Walter, I agree that we're all better off when there is a full range of housing options for low-income folks. Even if Craig spent every penny he has on food and shelter, his check wouldn't be enough to cover most rents here. There's got to be a better way.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 04, 2007, 12:36 PM:
 
Where I live, I couldn't afford within 3 states if I moved. Cutting the low end of housing off was one of the most evil consequences of zoning.I believe we have only three trailor - excuse me, Mobile Home Courts left on the peninsula. Shame on us.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 04, 2007, 12:59 PM:
 
quote:
From what I hear, the VA has really good services for vets that need some help getting it together emotionally after coming home.
you heard wrong.

Budget increase for VA health care unlikely in 2007

By Rick Maze
Staff writer

The 109th Congress shut down for good without providing any increases in money for Department of Veterans Affairs health care expenses next year — and the likelihood that the new 110th Congress will approve a budget increase before next autumn seems bleak.

Despite pleas from major veterans’ service organizations that an increase in the VA budget is warranted in time of war, Congress left town without doing anything to boost VA’s fiscal 2007 budget covering the period of Oct. 1, 2006, through Sept. 30, 2007.


Lawmakers were able to pass just two of the standard required 13 appropriations bills needed to keep the government running before leaving town for their holiday recess. Instead, they approved a temporary spending measure known as a continuing resolution that allows agencies to keep spending — but only at fiscal 2006 levels until new, permanent funding bills are passed.

There had been talk about including a $3 billion increase in the VA budget as part of the continuing resolution, but that effort fell flat when Republican congressional leaders were reluctant to make an exception for one agency because that could have opened the floodgates for hundreds of other adjustments, making quick passage of the resolution more difficult.

Congress passed multiple continuing resolutions to keep the government running while lawmakers tried to reach agreement and then took a monthlong break for the November general elections. Republican leaders seemed to run out of steam while trying to wrap up the appropriations bills after Democrats won enough seats in the House and Senate to take control when the new session of Congress begins in January. Congress wound up passing a final continuing resolution early Saturday that keeps the government running at 2006 spending levels through Feb. 15.

On Monday, the incoming Democratic chairman of the House and Senate appropriations committees — Rep. David Obey of Wisconsin and Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia — said in a joint statement that they do not see how it will be possible to give full consideration to the fiscal 2007 federal budget next year while also working simultaneously on the fiscal 2008 budget. They said they are inclined to simply extend the continuing resolution and its flat spending levels through Sept. 30, 2007, the end of the current fiscal year.

House and Senate Democratic leaders endorsed the Obey-Byrd plan. “To give state and local governments certainty about how and what the government is funding, and to give Congress the time to legislate these issues as it should, we support Senator Byrd and Congressman Obey in their plan to pass a yearlong joint resolution early in the 110th Congress,” said Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, who will become speaker of the House in January, and Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, the Senate Democratic leader.

“It is not a perfect solution, but it is the best available given the fiscal mess the 109th Congress has left behind,” Pelosi and Reid said in a joint statement.

Some Republicans had tried to get more for veterans’ programs. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, tried to get a last-minute deal on the VA and military construction appropriations bill but failed late last week in the waning days of the 109th Congress.

Hutchison, chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee panel that handles the VA budget, convinced three Republicans who were holding up the bill to allow the Senate to start negotiations with the House on Thursday, but the House Appropriations Committee leadership decided it was too late.

Separately, Sen. Thad Cochran, R-Miss., the Senate Appropriations Committee chairman, proposed including a $3 billion increase for the VA in the continuing resolution, but that idea also was rejected by the House Appropriations Committee.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 04, 2007, 01:48 PM:
 
I just meant that I had heard that their counselors were very good from lots of other vets. It's disgusting how often Veterans' services are cut or not increased as needed. They're quick enough to send you all there, but they sure seem forget fast. It's shameful.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 04, 2007, 03:12 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
Where I live, I couldn't afford within 3 states if I moved. Cutting the low end of housing off was one of the most evil consequences of zoning.I believe we have only three trailor - excuse me, Mobile Home Courts left on the peninsula. Shame on us.

Prior to the earthquake the Palomar and St. George Hotel on the mall housed lots and lots of seniors and folks on disability. During the rebulding they decided to house only seniors in an effort to sanitize the mall. It was a huge loss of SRO housing for mentally ill folks and lots never found housing again after the earthquake because they couldn't meet the clean and sober criteria for supportive housing. At the St. George they didn't need anyone's help - they paid their rent and lived like anyone else. It was a pretty wild scene in there but pretty fun too sometimes. I was homeless when I got here for awhile and I used to stay there for $14 a night in 1982 when I had job interviews the next day. Some of Santa Cruz's wackiest characters lived there. (Does anyone else remember Bert Glick the poet who tried to pick up women all day with his poems, or Ozymandius?) I think monthly rentals cost about $200 a month back then. Now no one wants SRO housing near them. I'm pretty sure that you have to be at least 55 to live in the Palomar now.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 04, 2007, 03:49 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
Cutting the low end of housing off was one of the most evil consequences of zoning.

But it's not the presence of zoning itself that cuts it off -- it's zoning power in the hands of hypocrites and bigots; the type who claim to favor diversity and inclusion in public, but the moment the doors are closed lobby to prevent anything other than their own class' housing from being built.

Which topic I've told enough specific stories about here, including names, places and points in time for each, that I'm sure they don't need repeating.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 04, 2007, 08:50 PM:
 
quote:
And I played that damned opening night somehow. And I played the rest of the performances.

That’s pretty cool. I couldn’t have pulled it together that fast.

I didn't have anything pulled together. I didn't go back to high-school after that. I flunked everything the last quarter, and may have flunked everything the last two quarters, and still graduated in the top 10% of the class.

I would drive up to the top of Cheaha and sit there and try to think. My father followed me at least once. I was crying and sobbing "why me?" at the time.

I didn't want to go to graduation but my parents begged me, for the sake of my grand-parents, they said.

It turns out my father had arranged a little come-uppance for me. You see, when integration was forced they created this private school called The Acadamy. Probably The Anniston Academy was/is the formal name. Among other things, you had to do an entire year of bible study, beginning with the old testament. Most of the town's upper crust (can't think of a better term) decided to pay, and pay rather dearly, to prevent their children from associating with blacks, other than as servants. And while I can't say that I know they used the bible to support this, I would guess that was the purpose of the year's required bible reading in school - to somehow legitimize their prejudice.

But anyway, I went to the brand spanking new state-of-the-art (and still beautiful) public school. The goal of just about every student at that academy was to get into Sewanee, and they would have done anything to get in.

I didn't know this but applied mostly because my physics teacher suggested it, and he let me sleep through his class (I also aced every test, with the highest score in the class). And when I researched the school it became my first choice, over Georgia Tech, which also accepted me.

I didn't attend rehearsal for graduation, and was surprised and assumed I was being humiliated when my father practicly bullied me into participating in the ceremony by telling me I wouldn't graduate, or get a diploma, or therefore be able to go to Sewanee, unless I did. And I suspect this was not true but just a ruse.

I was on the verge of tears when they told me I would have to go last because I didn't attend rehersal. When I finally received my diploma they announced that I had been accepted and would be going to Sewanee...

...I didn't get it, and neither did my grandma. I didn't see what the big deal was about being accepted to Sewanee. My grandmother said my father was sitting in the audience laughing and she thought he was laughing at my humiliation.

Some time later, Lucy Mange, who was a classmate until she transferred to the Academy, and perhaps even valedictorian there, and now that I think about it probably made a speech while I stood at the end of the line, had the grace to tell me how envious the Academy kids were of me. It must have been a joint graduation exercise, else why would the Academy kids have been there? But evidently, they were all there waiting to find out who had been accepted at Sewanee, and all believed I was at the end of the line because I didn't attend the rehersal...

The last thing I wanted to do was spend the summer in that town, so I took off hitch-hiking, without telling my parents, though I did tell several friends my plan and expected my parents would learn from them what I was up to.

I made it to Atlanta, was taken in by some not-so-reputable people at Piedmomnt Park. Among other things there was an orgy with a couple of Pent-House girls -*TRUE*- I swear. They showed me their pictures in the magazine, and I was able to compare centimeter per centimeter. It was definitely them in that picture. In that Penthouse Centerfold.

Well, I really wasn't interested but they went out of their way to persuade me to go home with them, which was a really nice aparment block. We went skinny-dipping in the pool, and I guess this would have been most straight high school graduates' dream, particularly since they did their darndest to arouse me, both in the pool and elsewhere. But I wasn't straight.

I remember muttering "finish without me" as I fell asleep in bed with them.

I did return to my disreputable friends and we did acid and got on the freeway and drove South. They began to trip and I ended up driving, taking a hit of green microdot every half hour or so. And nothing happened.

Until I took about 3.

Anyway, I pulled off the highway when it began to hit and we spent the night tripping in the woods. And the sheriff came by in the morning and probably would have left us alone, except my friend had to tell him that he was a priest and a psychiatric social worker and a whole bunch of other bizarre stuff until I yelled "Shut Up You Idiot!" when he began to explain to the nice officer that we were tripping on LSD.

Needless to say, we went to jail. I believe it was the smallest town in Georgia, Hocutt. Anyway, his lawyer (? don't ask me, maybe he was a rich drug dealer, or a trust-fund baby blowing the wad...) but anyway his lawyer did get us out and we went back to Atlanta and I called my mother and she came and got me and I went home.

To learn my mother had divorced my father.

I got sick at Sewanne just before Thanksgiving break. I ended up in the hospital for two weeks with hepatitus. Every one assumed I got it from shooting drugs, which I never in my wildest dreams considered doing. But while I knew for a fact I didn't get it that way, I really didn't know how, or from whom, I did get it. And since I was gay I didn't think it would help to claim I got it from having sex, since I didn't know who or how I got it. Not then. Now that I've had some years to think about things I am convinced I did get it from having sex, and when, and from whom.

While I was in the hospital everyone was given gammagobulin shots, which I've been told are very painful.

So I was really ruined.

I remember sitting there with my father as Dean Puckett called me a truly dispicable and disgusting person. I have forgotten exactly what he said and I thought I never would. But it wasn't nice and I couldn't believe he said that and I couldn't believe he said that in front of my father, much less to me. It felt like being expelled, though I think technically they just didn't continue my scholorship, so my career there was over.

The fact was, I probably pissed them off because I really did think I got it from a needle the school doctor used on both me and someone else. And this other person was the only other person to come down with hepatitus. And I threatened to sue them, without having a clue what that really meant or if it was even possible.

I think that's more than enough about that here, but the story wasn't really over. Or even well begun.

Except to say that it now occurs to me that my first true medicinal use of marijuana was after that, because for years I couldn't drink. I actually recall talking about it with our family doctor, Dr. Simmons at the time (mother heard the McAnally's were doing coke) and while he supposed marijuana would damage my liver he did recognize that it couldn't possibly damage it as much as alcohol, and while stating he hoped I wouldn't do anything at all did agree that it was probably much better to do marijuana than alcohol if I was going to do something.

After about 5 or so years no liver damage was found, even though I asked specifically that they look for it, whenever I had any kind of physical where they could check for it. And I have been told there is no evidence, from a physical examination, that I have ever had hepatitus.

And that's more than enough of my personal past here. Though it's only the merest beginning of my story, and my trials and tribulations.

[ January 04, 2007, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 05, 2007, 06:29 AM:
 
Wow Craig – that’s some story. Thanks for telling me all that, because it filled in a lot of the missing pieces. Our backgrounds couldn’t be more different, but there are so many similarities too. Maybe that’s the bipolar part. Sometimes I look back now at all the wild stuff I did in my teens and twenties and it was all pretty crazy and dangerous but at the time it seemed perfectly reasonable to me to be running away, doing every drug in sight, hanging out with people twice my age, blowing off great jobs to go on dead tour and hitchhiking around by myself. I feel pretty badly now for what I put my mom through.

quote:
Most of the town's upper crust (can't think of a better term) decided to pay, and pay rather dearly, to prevent their children from associating with blacks, other than as servants.
I was accepted in the Bronx High School of Science but my mother wouldn’t let me go to public school because she believed I’d be one of the only white kids there. She wouldn’t even read the articles I gave her about what a good school it was. Instead, she made me go to an all-girls Catholic high school that I had gotten a partial scholarship to. We were really poor and the better school was free, but she insisted I go to the other one and then complained about the cost for 4 years even though I had been working since I was 13 and paid for a lot of it myself. I still can’t believe we paid so much to send me to a school that assumed that the only possible future I could want was to be a teacher, a nurse or a nun. Anything else was ‘unladylike’. Pfffft. It must have felt great to have been accepted to Sewanee, especially given all the other stuff going on with your life at the time.

quote:
Among other things there was an orgy with a couple of Pent-House …But I wasn't straight.
Life is just so ironic sometimes [Wink]

quote:
I did return to my disreputable friends and we did acid and got on the freeway and drove South. They began to trip and I ended up driving, taking a hit of green microdot every half hour or so... and we spent the night tripping in the woods. And the sheriff came by in the morning… but anyway his lawyer did get us out and we went back to Atlanta and I called my mother and she came and got me and I went home.
I have hundreds of bizarre ‘on the road and tripping’ stories, but most are too embarrassing now to recount. It’s a miracle I still have any brain cells left. I never once called my mom for help though – I didn’t want to hear all the ‘I told you so’ lectures.

quote:
To learn my mother had divorced my father.
Geez. That’s a hell of a lot to deal with in a short timeframe. A lot of my behavior was blamed on my dad’s death, but I don’t know. It seems like a copout to attribute it all to that.

quote:
So I was really ruined.
When you first used that word I thought you were being sarcastic, but I was thinking about that last night and I know what you mean. That’s how I felt after I got so sick, and I guess I still do feel that way sometimes. I think it’s less about what others think than it is about what we think others think. I came to the conclusion that people spend most of their time thinking about themselves just like we do, and aren’t paying all that much attention anyway. (Or at least that’s what I tell myself – it’s less embarrassing.)
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 05, 2007, 07:19 AM:
 
Novel, movie or sitcom?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 05, 2007, 07:26 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
Novel, movie or sitcom?

I'm not sure if that was supposed to make us feel embarrassed for talking about this stuff, but no one is being forced to read it.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on January 05, 2007, 07:52 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
Novel, movie or sitcom?

I'm not sure if that was supposed to make us feel embarrassed for talking about this stuff, but no one is being forced to read it.
If I know you cagey, you will draw out the bum's story here and then complile it to show him how he really could write an interesting book. I see right through you!
Always trying to give a hand up!
And one more thing- thanks for the good example!
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 05, 2007, 08:11 AM:
 
Well, honestly I do think that he writes really well. I get these really clear images from what he says and the sort of dry humor that he uses is great. It's helping me understand where he's coming from better by knowing more about his past, and I really do find it interesting. It's weird how many similar experiences we've had, and it makes me wonder which is the cart and which is the horse when it comes to BPD and life experiences. Medical science is somewhat split over whether it's caused by genetic or environmental factors although that seems to be changing as brain scans reveal more similarities to epilepsy, but there is still a significant group of researchers that aren't sure it has a physiological cause.

Craig is a much better writer than I am, so I doubt he would need my help to write a book. People nagged me to write one about homelessness for a decade and I didn't know where to even start.

[ January 05, 2007, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 05, 2007, 08:21 AM:
 
My comment was not a put down. I tend to be direct with those.
PSB shows an articulation uncommon in today's art, and with a warm, dry hootch just might produce saleable productss. I believe I refered periferally to this possiblity earlier.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 05, 2007, 08:29 AM:
 
OK sorry - I won't read between the lines (well, I will but I'll leave more room for the idea that I'm just being paranoid.)

That's what I think too. I'm pretty fussy about what I read and toss aside things as boring all the time, but I think he really has a great style in the way he describes this stuff.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 05, 2007, 01:19 PM:
 
When you first used that word I thought you were being sarcastic, but I was thinking about that last night and I know what you mean.

I wasn't being sarcastic at all. And it was exactly like being shunned, and worse. I remember John Hamiliton (A nasty little rich-boy, his father probably owned half the town.) tried to accuse me of theft and fired me from a job as the desk-clerk in the Holiday Inn his father owned.

He actually tried to set me up. He told me there was a machine in one of the rooms where I could fake a room payment and pocket the money, and then tried to claim the books were out of balance and I was stealing. He called in the other desk clerk and manager, and they finally were able to find the books were $.05 (FIVE CENTS) out of balance, but the manager refused to accuse me of stealing.

People would leave when you entered a business, restaurant, or anywhere. It really did hurt when my cousin David asked if what everyone said was true, that I was gay, and I told him yes and he never had any more to do with me.

And other family members.

I did have friends and relatives that stood by me, but I could see they were being harmed as well, and particularly my parents, which had a lot to do with why I left.

Having deep roots and being connected I now see that I was immune to much of the violence and harassment that I could have suffered.

I remember in junior high, Cleophus and Janet Thomas. They were both black, attractive, intelligent. Janet was just simply beautiful, in both body and spirit. Cleo was elected president of the student body.

And then his beautiful face had a huge scar across it, and Janet...well, I shudder to think what she went through, and what they may have done to her.

But mother tells me Cleo is still there and had been on the city council and is a successful lawyer now I believe.

Father told me the Arnolds would give me a job. They owned a foundry, or something like that and lived up the street from us, but I didn't see how I could do factory work, or get along with the people I would have to work with. Perhaps I should have tried it, but he also thought it was a good idea for me to go in the Navy...

The business at the restaurant completely died. And I believe they went out of business.

[ January 05, 2007, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 05, 2007, 01:29 PM:
 
Actually factory work isn't too bad, even in the desert heat Jgun can tell you about. If your tonage and quality meet or exceed specs without exceeding the budget, little else matters.
Another of my dreams just died. I often felt that, having started my engineering career in a company mill town, I should end it in another. I selected Scotia, where I fancied dying in the saddle of plant engineer but, alas, the Greenies shut down the mill and the town is being sold off.
Poop!
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 05, 2007, 03:57 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
And it was exactly like being shunned, and worse...People would leave when you entered a business, restaurant, or anywhere...he never had any more to do with me...And other family members.

Having to feel like there was something terribly wrong with you when there isn't anything you can do to change it must have been incredibly frustrating and depressing, especially when you're smart enough to know that there isn't a damn thing wrong with what you are and they're just too bigoted to get it. But, when you're so outnumbered it doesn't matter who's right.

quote:
I did have friends and relatives that stood by me, but I could see they were being harmed as well, and particularly my parents, which had a lot to do with why I left.
I can understand that. I pretty much stopped talking to almost everyone I knew when I got really sick, and just let it stay that way I guess. I completely get the part of not being willing to let it be someone else's problem.

quote:
Having deep roots and being connected I now see that I was immune to much of the violence and harassment that I could have suffered.
I'm trying to imagine growing up in an environment where racism and homophobia are the cultural norms and where everyone knows everyone else's business, but I really can't. It isn't like there wasn't plenty of bigotry around me growing up, but most people were ashamed to say it around people that didn't agree with them. In a city of millions, there is no predominant mindset so there are always ways to escape it.

Do you find yourself looking back at things from your past now that you know you're bipolar and rethinking your interpretation of them? I do. I think maybe I was manic to some degree for like 30 years or something. It would explain a lot.
 
Posted by happytears (Member # 278) on January 05, 2007, 07:01 PM:
 
PSB,

I enjoy your story. Not that is it pleasant, but that your way of communicating it is excellent. I feel like I can see and feel it. You have a great talent.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 04:15 AM:
 
Craig, since when have you been hanging out in Corralitos? Luckily for you, last time I checked the City of SC wasn't a private landholding so I'm guessing the 'our town' thing is a bit overstated. Corralitos really isn't in the bible belt, either, contrary to all appearances at the moment. I think you can feel free to ignore the directive until we start electing homophobes or sell the town to them. [Roll Eyes]

Anyway, so what happened after you got back home after the road trip?

[ January 06, 2007, 04:36 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 06, 2007, 07:15 AM:
 
quote:
Craig, since when have you been hanging out in Corralitos? Luckily for you, last time I checked the City of SC wasn't a private landholding so I'm guessing the 'our town' thing is a bit overstated.
Shades of Carolyn Bushenhart! This isn't the first time, that somebody who doesn't even live in the city of Santa Cruz, told the homeless bums to get out of their town. OK, then lets build a new campground in Corralitas so he can take back his town...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 07:25 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
OK, then lets build a new campground in Corralitas so he can take back his town...

LOL
I remember the 'Take Back Our Town' rally and counter-rally and good old Carolyn. That happened right after I first got involved. The interesting thing about all that to me was that it got the SCAN involved in homeless issues in a big way and they started supporting creating some services. They might not have been thrilled with homeless people but they sure hated Carolyn. If they hadn't organized all those video camera people I'm pretty sure things would have gotten ugly and someone would have gotten hurt that day. In the end a bunch of dumb people yelled insults at each other from a safe distance and that was about it besides the chanting and marching around. I thanked her for it once. She wasn't amused.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 06, 2007, 07:56 AM:
 
Everybody has to be somewhere.
Most people have some residual value.
Tolerance ain't love, but it will do most days.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 09:31 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
Tolerance ain't love, but it will do most days.

Definitely. There's a whole lot of subjects that I feel strongly about where I have to accept that other people just have different values and see things in different ways and that it doesn't make them wrong or evil. Homophobia is one of the ones I just don't get though. How anyone could sincerely care who other consenting adults have sex with is just beyond me. There are so many real atrocities in the world to worry about.

[ January 06, 2007, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 06, 2007, 10:55 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Corralitos Resident:
Time to take out the trash.

Bye bye!
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on January 06, 2007, 11:23 AM:
 
Hey, Corralitos. Howz' 'da Sausage hangin'? This might shock you, but, I've actually been to Corralitos to pick up some of that fine sausage, and guess what I saw? A minority, and, he was working hard. He said he worked hard every day, and paid taxes every year. He was a renter, though, and seemed a bit miffed about some folks leeching on the taxes he paid every year. He did stop short of calling them Bums, though, feeling that was uncalled for, and unnecessary. Yep, he was tired of subsidizing homeowners who get special treatment, and write off the interest on their home payments. He was wondering why this was so, not that he was against someone getting a tax break, he just was wondering why renters don't get something like that, since they work as hard as anyone else, and pay taxes like everyone else. My new friend, Jesus, wondered why this unfair use of his taxes is allowed. I told him I didn't know, and often wondered myself, why folks should even charge interest if you can write it off, thereby passing the burden of your writeoff, to my friend, Jesus? Does he have a point, or should he just gete a home, or shut-up? Ayude me, por favor.

Don't tax you,
Don't tax me,
Tax that guy behind the tree.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 06, 2007, 11:46 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by Corralitos Resident:
Time to take out the trash.

Bye bye!
What? Are you leaving Mak?
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 06, 2007, 12:09 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
Are you leaving Mak?

I wouldn't do that to you, Homer. I know how you need me.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 06, 2007, 01:51 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Yep, he was tired of subsidizing homeowners who get special treatment, and write off the interest on their home payments. He was wondering why this was so, not that he was against someone getting a tax break, he just was wondering why renters don't get something like that, since they work as hard as anyone else, and pay taxes like everyone else. My new friend, Jesus, wondered why this unfair use of his taxes is allowed.

http://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/faq/ivr/203.html
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 06, 2007, 02:30 PM:
 
It reduces his rent, since rent has to recover cost.
Of course, if there were a flat tax or a consumption tax...
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 06, 2007, 04:28 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Corralitos Resident:
Time to take out the trash.

It didn't take long to replace Winston with a clone much like himself. We'll have to see if this guy is another BushCo fan too...
 
Posted by ecliptic (Member # 1484) on January 06, 2007, 04:46 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
quote:
Originally posted by Corralitos Resident:
Time to take out the trash.

It didn't take long to replace Winston with a clone much like himself. We'll have to see if this guy is another BushCo fan too...
To me, CR sounds more like the third (?) appearance of POC, who once upon a time started a thread called "Useless Eaters."
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 05:35 PM:
 
Thanks, Kimo [Smile]

[ January 06, 2007, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 06, 2007, 06:43 PM:
 
Thanks for the quick response, Kimo.

I had the feeling that neither you nor the Sentinel would want that kind of sick stuff on the forum, which is why I reported it. As others may have, too.

I appreciate your making yourself available on such a rapid basis when asked.

It makes a lot of difference in maintaining a forum that's freewheeling but not hatemongering.

Happy New Year!
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 06, 2007, 07:13 PM:
 
dang, I missed it all. What did Corralitos resident do? Did his/her posts get deleted? I don't see any.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 07:16 PM:
 
He made Robot a moderate for a day.

He managed to hit classism, sexism, homophobia, racism, and a few other isms I forgot in about a 5 post spree this this morning, and things just went downhill from there. He had to be a troll.
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 06, 2007, 07:17 PM:
 
Nothing new. How come his posts are gone? Under view recent posts it says there are 16, but it looks like they all got deleted.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 07:19 PM:
 
I don't think that there were any that didn't violate some sort of hate speech rule except for one to me in the insurance topic, and that was deleted too.
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 06, 2007, 07:20 PM:
 
right, like that has ever been enforced
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 06, 2007, 07:23 PM:
 
what a funky-*** forum. Lying, slandering and defaming real people is okay, but ugly opinions are censored...whatever.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 07:25 PM:
 
I don't think anyone usually reads it all that closely unless someone complains. I'm just guessing why. It was a lot uglier than the normal stuff so I'm OK with not having to read it, but it's never all that consistent IMO.
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 06, 2007, 07:31 PM:
 
whatever...say how about Pelosi? That really was something seeing the first woman speaker getting sworn in. I'm surprised nobody made any posts about it.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 07:38 PM:
 
I almost posted about it, but I figured that I would be the only one excited and it would just start a hailstorm of bashing and dumb jokes about her looks anyway.

I think it's totally cool and about time and not only is she a woman but a west coast bay area liberal one to boot [Cool]

Something like this would have been unthinkable when I was a kid. It's a pretty big deal, and it's cool that you think so too.

[ January 06, 2007, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 06, 2007, 07:41 PM:
 
It was way cool, especially with all the kids in the photo op. The Republicans are totally kicking themselves for not thinking of it first.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 07:47 PM:
 
It will be interesting to see how big of an issue her gender will be going forward, especially if Hilary Clinton runs. Republicans will probably have to be at least a bit careful not to offend female voters, but it's hard to imagine that her gender is going to be seen as irrelevant when/if she makes a mistake.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 06, 2007, 08:43 PM:
 
They shutdown the Forum and deleted some posts just after 5 PM this evening.

You didn't miss anything, Yoke, unless you wanted to read some BS about why a Corralitas resident wouldn't employ certain groups of people and so on...
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 06, 2007, 09:18 PM:
 
ecliptic remembers the bad old days with:
quote:
To me, CR sounds more like the third (?) appearance of POC, who once upon a time started a thread called "Useless Eaters."
Both are likely Timothy C. May of the ba.mountain-folk Usenet group (among others).

[ January 07, 2007, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: trenobus ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 09:20 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
ecliptic remembers the bad old days with:
quote:
To me, CR sounds more like the third (?) appearance of POC, who once upon a time started a thread called "Useless Eaters."
Both are likely Timothy C. Mays of the ba.mountain-folk Usenet group (among others).
I missed POC, but is it your sense that if he is that person, that he really believes that stuff or is just trolling for attention?

[ January 06, 2007, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 06, 2007, 09:32 PM:
 
Probably like most of us, cagey wonders:
quote:
I missed POC, but is it your sense that if he is that person, that he really believes that stuff or is just trolling for attention?

My guess is both. With beliefs like that, he probably gets shunned and starved for attention. Though it's curious that he bothers to try to be anonymous here without actually assuming a different persona. Perhaps he simply can't control the hatred that spews out of him.
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 06, 2007, 09:37 PM:
 
likely ran into a tater bug n they got up in a wad.... [Big Grin]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 06, 2007, 09:45 PM:
 
It seemed very practiced in the way that he laid down post after post hitting on every issue likely to get a big reaction, using the most traditionally inflamatory phrases and ratcheting it up with each negative response. It's kind of easy to imagine him hitting forum after forum for his attention fix. Annoying, but still kind of sad.
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 06, 2007, 09:56 PM:
 
cagey sums up nicely with:
quote:
Annoying, but still kind of sad.
Indeed, especially since he is quite intelligent. Proving once again, I suppose, that intelligence is not enough.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 06, 2007, 11:31 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Both are likely Timothy C. Mays of the ba.mountain-folk Usenet group (among others).

Well, now that he's destroyed the "santa-cruz newsgroups," he's probably looking for new discussion boards to ruin. The guy ought to be permanently shipped off to Camp Mormon.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 07, 2007, 12:31 AM:
 
quote:
The guy ought to be permanently shipped off to Camp Mormon.
Careful with your spelling Dude! Don't you really mean Camp MORON. A name like that fits him perfectly. There should be a place for those idiots...
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on January 07, 2007, 06:36 AM:
 
"You qualify for the Nonrefundable Renter's Credit if you meet all of the following:

* You were a resident of California in 2006.
* Your California adjusted gross income (AGI) is $32,272 or less if your filing status is single or married filing a separate return; or $64,544 or less if you are married filing jointly, head of household, or qualified widow(er).
* You paid rent for at least half of 2006 for property in California that was your principal residence.
* You did not live with another person for more than half the year (such as a parent) who claimed you as a dependent in 2006.
* You are not a minor living with and under the care of a parent, foster parent, or legal guardian.
* You rented property for more than half the year that was not exempt from California property tax in 2006.
* If you are married, neither you nor your spouse was granted a homeowner's property tax exemption during 2006. (You can still qualify for the credit, even though your spouse claimed a homeowner's exemption, as long as each of you maintained a separate residence for the entire year in 2006).

Related information: Also see Homeowners and Renters Assistance. This is an assistance program available to qualifying senior and disabled individuals."

Thanks, LW for the above link, however, Jesus and I are still wondering a few things. Why the income parameters for renters? Do absent landlords who live outside California enjoy this write off, while renters credit require State residence? If so, why the difference in requirement? Do they also exist for those who write off interest? And, the ultimate question is: Why be able to write off interest at all? What is the rationale for this? Is it a reward for being fortunate enough to be a homeowner? Or, perhaps to lessen the sting of the Usurers (oops, excuse me, I meant Mortgage Bankers, my bad). Doesn't make much sense, other than a perk inserted into law by some vote seeking politician who is probably housed, but, I may be incorrect, and it's probably perfectly OK for Jesus to keep subsidizing these folks. Apparently being a homeowner makes one smarter as well, since most homeowners don't seem to see a double standard or anything. But, I don't know much about that stuff---Mr. T might have some info on that for me.
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 07, 2007, 06:36 AM:
 
a shame they don't have a swastika or KKK hood for his/her avatar...or the hammer n sickle.for CR...................... [Wink]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 06:52 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
And, the ultimate question is: Why be able to write off children at all? What is the rationale for this? Is it a reward for being fortunate enough to be a parent?...Doesn't make much sense, other than a perk inserted into law by some vote seeking politician who is probably a parent

Personally, I'm happy about any and all tax breaks and writeoffs an individual or family of normal means can find to take advantage of, but just for arguments sake would you be ok with the above substitutions? I don't really think parents shouldn't get to claim their kids, but some of you that choose to reproduce get to take deductions we childless folks don't. We pay taxes for schools that we don't take advantage of (although again, personally I like education and have no problem paying a share.) I'm just trying to figure out if you're against all writeoffs or see mortgage interest as a unique situation.

ETA:
Why aren't we talking about this in the tax topic? I'll move my post over there if you will [Smile] )

[ January 07, 2007, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on January 07, 2007, 07:14 AM:
 
Hey, KG---I'm with you. I was just trying to tweak CR a bit, and his "I work hard and pay taxes", and am tired of paying for this or that, BS (usually directed at minorities). Just trying to exparess a bit of consternation I've noted in non-homeowners. It does seem rather silly to pay interest and then write it off. But, I'm just a rube from Southeast Oklahoma and don't know much, like some of these City Slickers. Something doesn't seem right to me. I'm pretty sure the Bank doesn't care, since it's getting paid. Anyway my quesetion was: what's the actual reasoning behind it? I got sidetracked yet again, and was responding to a post here, by the recently banned, CR. However, I'll meet you over there at the other tax thread if you wish. BTW--Mr. T, I believe, called you "his", or "him", in a post. Memo to Mr. T: From what I've heard, KG is allegedly a woman who wears miniskirts, and many have claimed to see her, but I haven't.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 07:19 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
BTW--Mr. T, I believe, called you "his", or "him", in a post. Memo to Mr. T: From what I've heard, KG is allegedly a woman who wears miniskirts, and many have claimed to see her, but I haven't.

You're supposed to post a picture of your adams apple before you mention miniskirts, remember? [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 07, 2007, 07:21 AM:
 
Hi tech "street surivival" kits-light wieght-handed out no questions asked to all people needing help

like a mountain pack-energy bars-water purifiers-portable toilet-cold weather/waterproof liteweight gear-all lightweight---

and some kind of barracks housing-guess you indeed would have to have rules-be realistic and have smoking zones way back out of sight n mind though. [Big Grin]

and lite duty work-unless disabled-easy money but something to do in return-even half shifts-whatever

graffitti n trash cleanup-and there is a 1000 years work getting the nation cleaned up for reals.

I often pick up litter-sick of seeing the SAME piece of rain washedlitter for 4 seasons-I'll finally pick it up. [Wink]

[ January 07, 2007, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on January 07, 2007, 07:48 AM:
 
"I just couldn't relax, one of the reasons so many muscians worship the bud, I suppose. It allows them to relax and let the music flow THROUGH them rather than pushing it and rushing.

But I digress..."

Hey, Craig--been enjoying your writings of late. Like KG, I was also surprised by your musical background. As a persistent, not that good, unaccomplished self taught wanna' be Bass player for many years, I had a laugh about slowing things down. Trying to play Reggae one-drop lines while White and untalented (oops have I committed a hate crime against myself?), does improve with some Mother Nature I've heard. I remember my Mom, when younger, putting out the line against Ganj she'd learned from the Anslinger age, about musicians (she mentioned drummers--specifically, Gene Krupa), using it to slow down the beat, and engaging in criminal behavior as an added factor. Interestingly, the Ganj provided her with her most peaceful moments at the end. Also, like Confession---Digression is good for the Soul. I appreciate your input and information from an entirely different place most of us know.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on January 07, 2007, 09:57 AM:
 
Hey, Everybody---Happy New Year. I've been debating with myself about posting this comment, but, I do like to respond to things that concern me, whether my response is popular or not, and, I've sensed some tension from folks I respect who feel I may not be properly supportive of silencing assinine bigots and racists. There is without a doubt, a blanket condemnation of Corralitos Resident, and posts he recently made that most viewed as minimally annoying and inappropriate, and, maximally, as hate speech, racism, etc,. which resulted in his having his posts deleted by Kimo. This is a public forum, and that is a serious step to take, and, a problem for me. Since the posts have been deleted, one may not have seen them all, like me, and must accept the common wisdom that hate speech and racism were committed. There seems to be an unclear area about what actually constitutes Hate speech, and, what conditions must exist before it is censored, or charged. (At least to me). I have attached the following article from the ACLU from a different case 12 years ago, that expresses my view far more eloquently than I am able. If one would insert the word "Forum", where it refers to Universities, there isn't much difference. I'd prefer to read CR's posts, and attempt to educate him, perhaps, or, at least let him see that others have valid reasons for their views that conflict with his, by engaging him. Isn't that a purpose of a forum? Banishment and censorship should be used for egregious reasons if at all, in my opinion. Being uncomfortable, or, being reminded of past negative experiences, is not enough to limit free speech, in my opinion. BTW, I've heard Asian comediennes (for example: Margaret Cho) make the same point about the stereotypical Asian driver. (If that was the reason for censoring, I've got a real problem with that, but, I'll never know, since Kimo deleted them). Relax, everyone. Richard Pryor made a living off sterotyping and humanizing real folks, who happened to be Black, and the real stereotypes that exist. Jeff Foxworthy, Larry the Cable Guy, and others do the same to White Southerners. In fact, after viewing Margaret Cho's humorous takes on her culture, it would be hard to get excised at all, about any cultural observation, by anyone else, including CR, (as far as I know, since they are gone), short of banning her to Devil's Island or something, I mean. Not renting to, or, employing folks because of race, sexual preference, religion, etc., is illegal, but, is not a reason to censor someone's comments. Absence violence or personal threats, it is hard for me to support censorship or banishment for mere words. In short, I think everyone is wrong, including Kimo, (unless I can see the offending posts). For your consideration:


Hate Speech on Campus (12/31/1994)

In recent years, a rise in verbal abuse and violence directed at people of color, lesbians and gay men, and other historically persecuted groups has plagued the United States. Among the settings of these expressions of intolerance are college and university campuses, where bias incidents have occurred sporadically since the mid-1980s. Outrage, indignation and demands for change have greeted such incidents -- understandably, given the lack of racial and social diversity among students, faculty and administrators on most campuses.

Many universities, under pressure to respond to the concerns of those who are the objects of hate, have adopted codes or policies prohibiting speech that offends any group based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation.

That's the wrong response, well-meaning or not. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution protects speech no matter how offensive its content. Speech codes adopted by government-financed state colleges and universities amount to government censorship, in violation of the Constitution. And the ACLU believes that all campuses should adhere to First Amendment principles because academic freedom is a bedrock of education in a free society.

How much we value the right of free speech is put to its severest test when the speaker is someone we disagree with most. Speech that deeply offends our morality or is hostile to our way of life warrants the same constitutional protection as other speech because the right of free speech is indivisible: When one of us is denied this right, all of us are denied. Since its founding in 1920, the ACLU has fought for the free expression of all ideas, popular or unpopular. That's the constitutional mandate.

Where racist, sexist and homophobic speech is concerned, the ACLU believes that more speech -- not less -- is the best revenge. This is particularly true at universities, whose mission is to facilitate learning through open debate and study, and to enlighten. Speech codes are not the way to go on campuses, where all views are entitled to be heard, explored, supported or refuted. Besides, when hate is out in the open, people can see the problem. Then they can organize effectively to counter bad attitudes, possibly change them, and forge solidarity against the forces of intolerance.

College administrators may find speech codes attractive as a quick fix, but as one critic put it: "Verbal purity is not social change." Codes that punish bigoted speech treat only the symptom: The problem itself is bigotry. The ACLU believes that instead of opting for gestures that only appear to cure the disease, universities have to do the hard work of recruitment to increase faculty and student diversity; counseling to raise awareness about bigotry and its history, and changing curricula to institutionalize more inclusive approaches to all subject matter.

QUESTIONS

Q: I just can't understand why the ACLU defends free speech for racists, sexists, homophobes and other bigots. Why tolerate the promotion of intolerance?

A: Free speech rights are indivisible. Restricting the speech of one group or individual jeopardizes everyone's rights because the same laws or regulations used to silence bigots can be used to silence you. Conversely, laws that defend free speech for bigots can be used to defend the rights of civil rights workers, anti-war protesters, lesbian and gay activists and others fighting for justice. For example, in the 1949 case of Terminiello v. Chicago, the ACLU successfully defended an ex-Catholic priest who had delivered a racist and anti-semitic speech. The precedent set in that case became the basis for the ACLU's successful defense of civil rights demonstrators in the 1960s and '70s.

The indivisibility principle was also illustrated in the case of Neo-Nazis whose right to march in Skokie, Illinois in 1979 was successfully defended by the ACLU. At the time, then ACLU Executive Director Aryeh Neier, whose relatives died in Hitler's concentration camps during World War II, commented: "Keeping a few Nazis off the streets of Skokie will serve Jews poorly if it means that the freedoms to speak, publish or assemble any place in the United States are thereby weakened."
Q: I have the impression that the ACLU spends more time and money defending the rights of bigots than supporting the victims of bigotry!!??

A: Not so. Only a handful of the several thousand cases litigated by the national ACLU and its affiliates every year involves offensive speech. Most of the litigation, advocacy and public education work we do preserves or advances the constitutional rights of ordinary people. But it's important to understand that the fraction of our work that does involve people who've engaged in bigoted and hurtful speech is very important:

Defending First Amendment rights for the enemies of civil liberties and civil rights means defending it for you and me.
Q: Aren't some kinds of communication not protected under the First Amendment, like "fighting words?"

A: The U.S. Supreme Court did rule in 1942, in a case called Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, that intimidating speech directed at a specific individual in a face-to-face confrontation amounts to "fighting words," and that the person engaging in such speech can be punished if "by their very utterance [the words] inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace." Say, a white student stops a black student on campus and utters a racial slur. In that one-on-one confrontation, which could easily come to blows, the offending student could be disciplined under the "fighting words" doctrine for racial harassment.

Over the past 50 years, however, the Court hasn't found the "fighting words" doctrine applicable in any of the hate speech cases that have come before it, since the incidents involved didn't meet the narrow criteria stated above. Ignoring that history, the folks who advocate campus speech codes try to stretch the doctrine's application to fit words or symbols that cause discomfort, offense or emotional pain.
Q: What about nonverbal symbols, like swastikas and burning crosses -- are they constitutionally protected?

A: Symbols of hate are constitutionally protected if they're worn or displayed before a general audience in a public place -- say, in a march or at a rally in a public park. But the First Amendment doesn't protect the use of nonverbal symbols to encroach upon, or desecrate, private property, such as burning a cross on someone's lawn or spray-painting a swastika on the wall of a synagogue or dorm.

In its 1992 decision in R.A.V. v. St. Paul, the Supreme Court struck down as unconstitutional a city ordinance that prohibited cross-burnings based on their symbolism, which the ordinance said makes many people feel "anger, alarm or resentment." Instead of prosecuting the cross-burner for the content of his act, the city government could have rightfully tried him under criminal trespass and/or harassment laws.

The Supreme Court has ruled that symbolic expression, whether swastikas, burning crosses or, for that matter, peace signs, is protected by the First Amendment because it's "closely akin to 'pure speech.'" That phrase comes from a landmark 1969 decision in which the Court held that public school students could wear black armbands in school to protest the Vietnam War. And in another landmark ruling, in 1989, the Court upheld the right of an individual to burn the American flag in public as a symbolic expression of disagreement with government policies.
Q: Aren't speech codes on college campuses an effective way to combat bias against people of color, women and gays?

A: Historically, defamation laws or codes have proven ineffective at best and counter-productive at worst. For one thing, depending on how they're interpreted and enforced, they can actually work against the interests of the people they were ostensibly created to protect. Why? Because the ultimate power to decide what speech is offensive and to whom rests with the authorities -- the government or a college administration -- not with those who are the alleged victims of hate speech.

In Great Britain, for example, a Racial Relations Act was adopted in 1965 to outlaw racist defamation. But throughout its existence, the Act has largely been used to persecute activists of color, trade unionists and anti-nuclear protesters, while the racists -- often white members of Parliament -- have gone unpunished.

Similarly, under a speech code in effect at the University of Michigan for 18 months, white students in 20 cases charged black students with offensive speech. One of the cases resulted in the punishment of a black student for using the term "white trash" in conversation with a white student. The code was struck down as unconstitutional in 1989 and, to date, the ACLU has brought successful legal challenges against speech codes at the Universities of Connecticut, Michigan and Wisconsin.

These examples demonstrate that speech codes don't really serve the interests of persecuted groups. The First Amendment does. As one African American educator observed: "I have always felt as a minority person that we have to protect the rights of all because if we infringe on the rights of any persons, we'll be next."
Q: But don't speech codes send a strong message to campus bigots, telling them their views are unacceptable?

A: Bigoted speech is symptomatic of a huge problem in our country; it is not the problem itself. Everybody, when they come to college, brings with them the values, biases and assumptions they learned while growing up in society, so it's unrealistic to think that punishing speech is going to rid campuses of the attitudes that gave rise to the speech in the first place. Banning bigoted speech won't end bigotry, even if it might chill some of the crudest expressions. The mindset that produced the speech lives on and may even reassert itself in more virulent forms.

Speech codes, by simply deterring students from saying out loud what they will continue to think in private, merely drive biases underground where they can't be addressed. In 1990, when Brown University expelled a student for shouting racist epithets one night on the campus, the institution accomplished nothing in the way of exposing the bankruptcy of racist ideas.
Q: Does the ACLU make a distinction between speech and conduct?

A: Yes. The ACLU believes that hate speech stops being just speech and becomes conduct when it targets a particular individual, and when it forms a pattern of behavior that interferes with a student's ability to exercise his or her right to participate fully in the life of the university.

The ACLU isn't opposed to regulations that penalize acts of violence, harassment or intimidation, and invasions of privacy. On the contrary, we believe that kind of conduct should be punished. Furthermore, the ACLU recognizes that the mere presence of speech as one element in an act of violence, harassment, intimidation or privacy invasion doesn't immunize that act from punishment. For example, threatening, bias-inspired phone calls to a student's dorm room, or white students shouting racist epithets at a woman of color as they follow her across campus -- these are clearly punishable acts.

Several universities have initiated policies that both support free speech and counter discriminatory conduct. Arizona State, for example, formed a "Campus Environment Team" that acts as an education, information and referral service. The team of specially trained faculty, students and administrators works to foster an environment in which discriminatory harassment is less likely to occur, while also safeguarding academic freedom and freedom of speech.
Q: Well, given that speech codes are a threat to the First Amendment, and given the importance of equal opportunity in education, what type of campus policy on hate speech would the ACLU support?

A: The ACLU believes that the best way to combat hate speech on campus is through an educational approach that includes counter-speech, workshops on bigotry and its role in American and world history, and real -- not superficial -- institutional change.

Universities are obligated to create an environment that fosters tolerance and mutual respect among members of the campus community, an environment in which all students can exercise their right to participate fully in campus life without being discriminated against. Campus administrators on the highest level should, therefore;

* speak out loudly and clearly against expressions of racist, sexist, homophobic and other bias, and react promptly and firmly to acts of discriminatory harassment; (Buzz note: this does not include censorship).
* create forums and workshops to raise awareness and promote dialogue on issues of race, sex and sexual orientation;
* intensify their efforts to recruit members of racial minorities on student, faculty and administrative levels;
* and reform their institutions' curricula to reflect the diversity of peoples and cultures that have contributed to human knowledge and society, in the United States and throughout the world.

ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser stated, in a speech at the City College of New York: "There is no clash between the constitutional right of free speech and equality. Both are crucial to society. Universities ought to stop restricting speech and start teaching."

I think the same is true of the Forum. Perhaps CR could learn from the free exchange of ideas, and exposure to those who not only think differently, but, are different. I say repost those offending entries by CR that were verified as Hate speech, so those who didn't see them can make their own decision free of a moderator. So, how about it? Fire at will.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on January 07, 2007, 10:28 AM:
 
Buzz, the difference between CR and the comedians you named is simple; they were joking and he isn't. I would agree that free speech can bring out the down side of Democracy, as in the case of CR, but at the same time, I think the Sentinel has a right to set the standards it wants here.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 10:29 AM:
 
I don't have much of a principled stand here. This isn't really a 'public' forum - it's a private one hung off the website of a local paper. It's theirs. I've never seen anything consistent about how the rules are enforced, probably because they respond to complaints and deal with them as they see fit and there isn't any pretense of day to day moderation. We could all consistently complain but that's only going to annoy them and most of us. I used to b!tch about it when I was losing it and all it does it make it worse. I just file it with broken cars and taxes now.

But anyway I don't have a lot of principles about enjoying the benefits of having ugly things disappear before the person that they were aimed at sees them and gets hurt. There's flaming, and then there is calling someone a useless eater and waxing poetic about the time when he'll get to join in burning them off the face of the earth. Should they have the free speech to say it? Sure. But if I were the Sentinel I wouldn't provide a free platform to get that message out to the world either. The first amendment doesn't say that anyone has to pay for providing you an outlet for your opinions. It's not the same as not being able to say it on a street corner or hand out leaflets IMO.

The other reason I'm not particularly upset about it is that I can't stand trolls. Within an hour he had every single topic focused on him, sucking up every bit of the energy of the place. Trolls live for that, and it's almost impossible not to feed them without letting someone else get savaged.

So anyway, I get where you're coming from, and this isn't a position I'm necesarily proud of, but it's a beautiful Sunday and I'm really happy not to be reading more of the aftermath of the outrage at his comments.

[ January 07, 2007, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on January 07, 2007, 10:47 AM:
 
I agree, Pdskee--however, since I didn't see the offending posts, I have no idea what those standards are, and, as much as I really love Kimo, I have no idea what his criteria are, or whether they are fair or not. Of course, I could just shut up and move on, which is probably what I'll do. Wouldn't want to infringe on the Sentinel's private property, by having a differeent opinion. Enjoy, my friends, most of you have no clue what Freedom is. It would be more helpful to leave them up as bad examples, than take them down and remove all evidence of whether they were or were not Hate speech. This is the second time this BS has been done here. I never saw any evidence whatsoever that Gull_Beak exhibited any emotion that was not prevalent in our society, and others as well, concerning Saddam and his necktie party, and his diatribes against radical muslims. If you remain silent, and, acquiesence in this crock of used Kimchee, it is rather disturbing. Hope you get a nice suntan, KG. Adios, Amigos. Enjoy your semi-free Forum and many thanks to the Sentinel. Peace.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 11:00 AM:
 
So freedom is when I agree with you and stand up for what you believe in? I'll get upset when the government does it, not when a private entity does it. Walk your talk and offer to buy the guy an ad and pay for it yourself.
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 07, 2007, 11:30 AM:
 
At what point does hate speech become the same as yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater? Take a middle class that has been economically depressed for a few years, single out a particular group of people as being responsible for their economic hardship, and they just might buy it. Next thing you know, the "vermin" are being herded off to camps. You know, the camps that Halliburton is building.

Anyway, this guy doesn't lack for forums on which to indulge his mental illness. What he lacks is someone to actively rebut or support him. He tends to either destroy the forums he visits, or is ignored. Either way, he ends up out in the cold.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 11:40 AM:
 
I'm not disagreeing at all with Yoke or Buzz that things equally offensive have been allowed to stand because no one complained or a moderator disagreed that they were over the top. If there were regular moderation and standards were this unevenly enforced then it would bother me a lot more, but I'm just not willing to fight a symbolic battle. I didn't complain or asked to have him banned, but I sure don't feel guilty about enjoying the results.

<sarcasm>Besides, I just have to go work on my tan and learn to sing 'Imagine' till the world changes to suit me</sarcasm>
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on January 07, 2007, 11:52 AM:
 
Buzz, this is a privately owned place, big difference. I think Cagey summed it up best.
I think we should be glad that a genuine scumbag got the boot. I've been on forums where idiots are allowed to run wild and ruin the place and it sucks. There was a forum at the Bob Dylan site run by Sony, and it was pretty wild. There was some great information, but also a lot of nasty exchanges. One day I went there and it was gone, never to return.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 07, 2007, 11:59 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Next thing you know, the "vermin" are being herded off to camps.

Hmmm. The only calls for shipping people off to camps around here came from one of you libs. (Camp Mormon indeed!)

[ January 07, 2007, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: homer ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 12:01 PM:
 
What is Camp Mormon anyway? I googled it and got a bunch of camps, but what am I missing?
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 07, 2007, 12:19 PM:
 
pdskee made a hasty value judgment with:
quote:
I think we should be glad that a genuine scumbag got the boot.
He's actually a very bright guy who has made some contributions to society:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_C._May

but see also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Timothy_C._May

I don't know him personally, but he does a pretty good imitation of someone who's mentally ill from where I'm sitting.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on January 07, 2007, 12:28 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
pdskee made a hasty value judgment with:
quote:
I think we should be glad that a genuine scumbag got the boot.
He's actually a very bright guy who has made some contributions to society:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_C._May

but see also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Timothy_C._May

I don't know him personally, but he does a pretty good imitation of someone who's mentally ill from where I'm sitting.

Tren, I'm a little confused. You say I made a hasty(implying wrong I think) judgement on this person, whom you describe as mentally ill in the same post! With his high tech background(assuming you are right), he should know that immigrants account for about 25% of the brainpower in high tech start ups. If he was just trying to push buttons, as a link you provided suggested, it worked, and now he's gone.
The joke's on him.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 12:32 PM:
 
I suppose we should feel honored that we may have been visited by a famous troll [Smile]

An opinion from Wiki:
My opinion is that Tim May's intolerant or racist posts aren't intended as serious argumentation, but rather, he just enjoys irritating PC liberals. Browsing over his recent usenet posts, a clear majority of them are spiced with words that are intended to push peoples' buttons. I know for a fact that, years ago, most of his usenet posts were more serious in nature, but even then, he did a lot of trolling. But I've also seen him maintain a highly respectful and polite persona on a more closed, serious listserv. I also gather that he has quite a few prominent friends in the Bay area, some of them Jewish. I've seen some of them refer to meeting him in person; nobody ever gave even the slightest indication that he's hard to be around. So, I suspect many of the elements of his net persona are meant to annoy the people he disagrees with.

If it was him, he successfully meets his goal of being annoying. I'd have more respect for the free speech aspects of it if he did it face to face instead of hiding behind a keyboard.
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 07, 2007, 12:37 PM:
 
pdskee gets a hypocrisy bugcheck and says:
quote:
You say I made a hasty(implying wrong I think) judgement on this person, whom you describe as mentally ill in the same post!
Ah, but you are provably wrong, whereas I may still be right. At least by my definitions of "scumbag" and "mentally ill".

[Confused]

Ok, maybe you nailed me. Colbert would be proud.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on January 07, 2007, 12:47 PM:
 
Tren, now knowing, thanks to you, the supposed background of CR, and your rush to his defense, one must wonder if you and he are one and the same?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 01:02 PM:
 
Even if he is, CR is still winning as long as we all fight amongst ourselves about him. It's what trolls do best.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on January 07, 2007, 01:10 PM:
 
I don't think it's a big deal. Someone gets their rocks off by spewing hate and stirring things up?
Mentally ill for sure, so maybe Tren is right. Some people enjoy marching backwards and unevolving. An intelligent person wants be lumped in with Hitler? It's a free country, I think. I wonder if he's a Bush supporter?
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 07, 2007, 01:11 PM:
 
Emboldened by his recent successful nail, pdskee presses on with:
quote:
Tren, now knowing, thanks to you, the supposed background of CR, and your rush to his defense, one must wonder if you and he are one and the same?
Only in the same way that I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I think Mak can back me up on that.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on January 07, 2007, 01:23 PM:
 
Of course, it takes immense talent to throw salt in social wounds, in public, and shows great concern for fellow citizens. I guess, in some circles, you're really making it! Congrats!
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 01:26 PM:
 
I've never quite bought the troller excuse that they don't really mean the things that they say or that they just say them to get a reaction, any more than I buy that people don't mean the things they say when they're drunk. Your inhibitions might be lowered by alcohol or anonymity, but that stuff is coming from somewhere.

[ January 07, 2007, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 07, 2007, 01:50 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
I agree, Pdskee--however, since I didn't see the offending posts, I have no idea what those standards are, and, as much as I really love Kimo, I have no idea what his criteria are, or whether they are fair or not. Of course, I could just shut up and move on, which is probably what I'll do. Wouldn't want to infringe on the Sentinel's private property, by having a differeent opinion. Enjoy, my friends, most of you have no clue what Freedom is. It would be more helpful to leave them up as bad examples, than take them down and remove all evidence of whether they were or were not Hate speech. This is the second time this BS has been done here. I never saw any evidence whatsoever that Gull_Beak exhibited any emotion that was not prevalent in our society, and others as well, concerning Saddam and his necktie party, and his diatribes against radical muslims. If you remain silent, and, acquiesence in this crock of used Kimchee, it is rather disturbing. Hope you get a nice suntan, KG. Adios, Amigos. Enjoy your semi-free Forum and many thanks to the Sentinel. Peace.

(bolding mine)

You're leaving in a huff in principled defense of posts (and a troll-persona) you've never read? And calling those of us who DID read them clueless?

[ January 07, 2007, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 07, 2007, 01:59 PM:
 
"ontologist" whatever that is is CRs profession-gotta look it up(maybe it means a student in Neo Nazi culture-or KKK?) [Wink]

-
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 02:09 PM:
 
Nope - here you go

Ontologist
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 07, 2007, 02:14 PM:
 
a paying job in this must be a counseler/teacher of some type----or computer consultant-wierd stuff.... [Smile] [Razz] [Wink]

wonder how it relates to cleaning a toilet? [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 07, 2007, 02:34 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Only in the same way that I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I think Mak can back me up on that.

I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 07, 2007, 02:42 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Only in the same way that I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I think Mak can back me up on that.

I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
But *I* am the Walrus!
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 07, 2007, 02:44 PM:
 
Mak brings it with:
quote:
I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
Exactly.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 07, 2007, 02:50 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Only in the same way that I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I think Mak can back me up on that.

I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
But *I* am the Walrus!
No, you are the Eggman.

Jeesh!!!
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 07, 2007, 02:53 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Mak brings it with:
quote:
I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
Exactly.
One of the best lyrics ever written.

And the fireman rushes in
From the pouring rain
Very strange
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 07, 2007, 03:23 PM:
 
got a beatles collection fer Christmas on CDs about 10 of em...... [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

miss the old albums n me n friends always whining about the needle being screwed up n wrecking the old vinyl records-with real good art on the covers-

yellow submarine etc.octopuses garden in the sea-et.... beatles made a lot of music........

got "in a gada da vida"(Iron butterfly) CD too!(was meant to be "in the garden of eden" but they were a bit high n let the title stand.

got sum new stuff but most-(not all) new music is trash-to me anyway. [Wink] [Wink] then the kids think the same of my old music-normal generation music gap......

[ January 07, 2007, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 07, 2007, 03:47 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by mulepig:
got a beatles collection fer Christmas on CDs about 10 of em......

Wow! You's a lucky guy!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by mulepig:
miss the old albums n me n friends always whining about the needle being screwed up n wrecking the old vinyl records-with real good art on the covers

That's the ONE thing I favor with LP's over CD's -- the size of the art. Still have several hundred LP's for that reason...

quote:
Originally posted by mulepig:
got "in a gada da vida"(Iron butterfly) CD too!(was meant to be "in the garden of eden" but they were a bit high n let the title stand.

NEVER knew that. Gotta listen to it again now that I know. Makes sense. Huh...

Ever listen to Pearls Before Swine?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 07, 2007, 04:00 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
One of the best lyrics ever written.

And the fireman rushes in
From the pouring rain
Very strange

Why?
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 07, 2007, 04:17 PM:
 
That was on "one hit wonders' on the TV(ch 44 0r 45) n It was cool how 'in a gadda da vida' was 'in the garden of eden'

messing up on the title made it(the title) a hit-but then again the record was good on its own-the drum solo n organ solo the best.forgot-the other side was OK too.......
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 07, 2007, 05:01 PM:
 
I remember when, if you used a steel needle instead of a cactus needle they yelled at you.
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 07, 2007, 05:10 PM:
 
and all this in the last 200 years-Thank G*D I wasnt born 200+ years ago-how barren life musta been

No TV-radio-recorded music-computers-and telecommunications-only horses n rope.

the train n telegraph got things into gear I think-then the horseless carrage, ran on pot biofeul oil......(I think the first cars werent even using fossil fuels-?gotta check...) [Razz]

and a doctor? well at least ya could die good n stoned...... [Wink] [Big Grin] [Razz]

[ January 07, 2007, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 07, 2007, 05:19 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Mak brings it with:
quote:
I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
Exactly.
One of the best lyrics ever written.

The best after maybe 20 or 30 by this guy.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 07, 2007, 05:55 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
The best after maybe 20 or 30 by this guy.

I'm with you, but I think this requires a poll. I think it's one of those critical pieces of information you just have to know about people.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 08, 2007, 12:52 PM:
 
Well I haven't been here for a couple of days and missed it all.

That was really a long ACLU article. I can't belive I read the whole thing.

I decided to bury myself in my dead relatives. And, by the way, when I had a few minutes to sit down a look at that Harper Lee genealogy, it's probably completely unreliable. Unless there are two Mary Thorley's, or Mary Thorley had two husbands - which none of my sources indicate, it is a very bad cut and paste job. Also, I've never run across a family FIELD, and I would think I'd have heard of them considering how far back they go. However, I have heard of Wingfield, which is also in that genealogy.

What excited me about it is that it indicates that she as the intersection of two main lines, the same ones I am: Garner/Keene and Hoge/Howe/Hume, though that genealogy doesn't actually tie her to the Hoge/Howe/Hume line but to the families it leads to, the Stuarts, Tudors and Hanovers.

But it seems the Garner database has added several thousand of my cousins along various generations and while I can't claim George Washington as a relation, one of my cousins married one of his cousins...so far. I'm sure if I dig long enough I will be able to claim him as some sort of relation.

I find the history interesting. I found some great photos of Mt. Vernon and I never really paid much attention to that history, or the Civil War.

[ January 08, 2007, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 08, 2007, 12:56 PM:
 
It was nuts, but it would have pissed you off beyond reason if you had seen it. He didn't just go after you though - he had an ugly slur for just about everyone but white non-disabled conservative males. We still want to hear more of your story whenever you feel like telling us more [Smile]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 08, 2007, 01:15 PM:
 
You want to know what happened after I came back from hitch-hiking and before I went to Sewanee?

I've been trying to remember. The thing is, those years were jumbled. Five or more years, maybe ten. It's really difficult for me to put things in chronological sequence.

I don't think the running-away was so much a sympton of any illnes as it was a normal reaction to an intolerable situation. And the fact is my ggrandfather by adoption ran away 'at an early age' and went to live with another family. And was, evidently, extremely successful. Among my ancestors, at least, it wasn't all that unusual.

Just look at Major Joseph Howe, my 6th ggrandfather: http://www.palmspringsbum.org/genealogy/getperson.php?&personID=I1548&tree=Legends

quote:
Tradition has it that he ran away from home to join his brother who was an officer in the British Army, but finding that his brother was dead, he drifted southward and finally settled in Virginia.
My cousin Jim went to live with my grandmother for a couple of years. Evidently he was getting into trouble in Birmingham (I think he was hustling the gay bars...).

[ January 08, 2007, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 08, 2007, 03:11 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
I don't think the running-away was so much a sympton of any illnes as it was a normal reaction to an intolerable situation.

I bet. It's terrible to have to leave your family, but that environment was just so poisonous for you. I had my little family problems, but nothing at all like what you went through. I don't really know why I ran away all the time. Sometimes I would storm out in a dramatic hissy fit and be too proud to go back right away, but I know a lot of times I created those scenes to have an excuse to take off. It wasn't like I was abused or in a terrible situation or anything. I just felt better when I was off on my own.

quote:
Among my ancestors, at least, it wasn't all that unusual.
Among mine it was highly unusual not to be an alcoholic or unemployed on a permanent basis. [Roll Eyes]

I want to know more, but I'm not sure what comes next to ask about. How did you end up in CA?
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on January 08, 2007, 03:21 PM:
 
psb sez:
quote:
I've been trying to remember. The thing is, those years were jumbled. Five or more years, maybe ten. It's really difficult for me to put things in chronological sequence.

sheesh...you've probably got a better memory for the feel of the situation than anyone with a few years under their belt than anyone i know. and add a diagnosis? don't worry about the chronology...keep writing if you feel like informing and entertaining us with your tale. you are a very talented writer, psb. you should thing about copywriting this stuff though. someone could steal some and these scenes and work them into a movie, they are that good. i much prefer this side of you than the "go to hell" side.
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on January 08, 2007, 03:24 PM:
 
not that i want to get in a p*ssing match with l'ard, but maybe you can help him out with writing with a sentence like below:
quote:
Trenobus's technique of introducing quotes with snide theatrical 'asides’ spreads like flu in a labor camp with:

ha ha.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 08, 2007, 03:30 PM:
 
The irony whooshes over conXious's head as he posts on the wrong thread:
quote:
Originally posted by conSCious:
not that i want to get in a p*ssing match with l'ard, but maybe you can help him out with writing with a sentence like below:
quote:
Trenobus's technique of introducing quotes with snide theatrical 'asides’ spreads like flu in a labor camp with:

ha ha.

 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 08, 2007, 05:49 PM:
 
Well, I just wrote several paragraphs and hit the wrong key and it was lost in space. I don't like the go-to-hell me either and I grieve and suffer a great deal over the fact that by the time the Victors took me in I was far too stressed and traumatized to cope with half a dozen people. Half a dozen dogs. And half a dozen birds. And I mean BIG birds. The kind you DO NOT piss off.

And sleeping in the middle of that menagerie for six weeks didn't help. The Victors are kind, generous people but they are TOTALLY NUTS.

But then again, after all they'd been through to have a tornado come charging through the back yard...

...I think being Jewish that probably really gave them pause.
________________________________________________

I've thought about copyright issues myself and most publications claim all rights to anything appearing on their sites.

And I do believe this is tantamount to putting something in the public domain, isn't it?

I actually thought about declaring that everything I write here is mine and I claim all rights and privledges including reprint rights and first publication rights and syndication rights and so-on and so-forth, ad nauseum, in finitum, etc...

...and I do so declare, for whatever good it does.

And since they haven't declared any copyright for 2006 or 2007 yet, just 1999-2005, I think that should do it.

N'est pas?
_________________________________________________

I arrived in San Francisco in 1980, hitch-hiking from New Orleans. I was being kept and it wasn't going well and I wanted a real job....

When the Navy gave me an honorable discharge if I promised never to try to join again I decided to have them send me to New Orleans. There was a guy being out-processed as well and I think he wanted out so bad that he tried to use my being gay as an excuse to get out. He may have even claimed we were involved...

I didn't care. I'd seen enough to know that it wasn't for me, though I've been told once you get out of boot-camp it's completely different. And my entire family was military.

I got an apartment in the Irish Alley, in the Lower Garden District, got a job at Pat O'Brien's as a doorman/bouncer (I kid you not), and eventually dumped whatever his name was.

Evidently Truman and Tennessee had just left town after giving a string of extravagent orgies for the Police Department.

New Orleans is magic.

It was pure magic to go to the Cafe DuMonde after sitting in on the late-night jam sessions in the jazz clubs, after the tourists go to bed. And read the Times-Picayune at sunrise and have cafe au lait and beignets as the artists set up (at their assigned spots) in Jackson Square, across from the Cathedral.

There were these two girls that used to go dancing in the gay bars, they appeared to be twins and I believe they were sisters. And I've wondered if one of them might have been Anne Rice, who I believe is an O'Brien.

I got an apartment in The Quarter, at Burgundy and Governor Nichols. I worked my way into bartending, and eventually to a busboy job at Arnaud's (where the waiters pay the house to work there). I lived on shrimp and fine wine at Arnaud's, and it was the most money I'd ever made until Price Waterhouse in San Francisco.

I'll never forget they had a banquet of French & British tourists, and they did a Bananas Foster at the end with a 15 foot flambe, and lots of nutmeg and cinnamon to sparkle in the flames.

I kid you not, the FRENCH gave a standing ovation for that dinner, and they must be the snobbiest people on earth.

Oh, the food in that town!

And the music!

Now that I think about it, the pinnacle of my career there was probably as the bartender in the Imperial Palace Regency, which is (or was) the restaurant/bar owned by the Lee family next to the Superdome.

Now, Lorraine Lee looked very chinese, but then she wouldn't be the Lee, would she?

Henrietta Lee Boggs worked the piano bar and she was a beauty and talented. She played Bohemian Rhapsody on the grand, among other things. And she was very good. She coverd all the parts, though it wasn't as good as when she and the other performer did it in Pat O'brien's on the back-to-back twin copper-covered grands.

And then there was Scotty Hill, with his band that played in the streets and for the occasional funeral or event. They were very good.

All day long, from morning to night, I could hear the live music, the live jazz music, the good live jazz music. It was the background of my life and it set the tempo, the pace of life, for the quarter.

It was magic.

I could write a book about that alone.

[ January 08, 2007, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 08, 2007, 06:04 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Only in the same way that I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I think Mak can back me up on that.

I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
But *I* am the Walrus!
no, no, no, here's another clue for you more, the Walrus was Paul...wait a minute...you mean homer is actually Paul?
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 08, 2007, 06:07 PM:
 
This is getting really weird, if homer is the Walrus and the Walrus we know is Paul, and Paul is actually not that Paul but is Mak, then homer must be Mak...I'm so confused.
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 08, 2007, 06:08 PM:
 
I told you about strawberry fields
You know the place where nothing is real
Well here's another place you can go
Where everything flows.
Looking through the bent backed tulips
To see how the other half live
Looking through a glass onion.
I told you about the walrus and me-man
You know that we're as close as can be-man
Well here's another clue for you all
The walrus was Paul.
Standing on the cast iron shore-yeah
Lady Madonna trying to make ends meet-yeah
Looking through a glass onion.

I told you about the fool on the hill
I tell you man he living there still
Well here's another place you can be
Listen to me.
Fixing a hole in the ocean
Trying to make a dove-tail joint-yeah
Looking through a glass onion.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 08, 2007, 06:54 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
by the time the Victors took me in I was far too stressed and traumatized to cope with half a dozen people. Half a dozen dogs. And half a dozen birds. And I mean BIG birds. The kind you DO NOT piss off.

Wait, back up a minute. Who were the Victors and why did they have a menagerie?

quote:
The Victors are kind, generous people but they are TOTALLY NUTS. But then again, after all they'd been through to have a tornado come charging through the back yard....
That's better than being totally sane and mean and selfish IMO. They had a tornado in their yard?

quote:
I arrived in San Francisco in 1980, hitch-hiking from New Orleans. I was being kept and it wasn't going well and I wanted a real job....
Kept? That sounds interesting. How did that happen? I'm too much of a pain in the *** for anyone to pay to keep, and it sounds like something that comes with a lot of rules. What was it like?

quote:
When the Navy gave me an honorable discharge if I promised never to try to join again...
I'm thinking there's yet another story there... [Smile]

quote:
I could write a book about that alone.
All of that about New Orleans sounds wonderful. I've always wanted to go there but never got around to it. Everyone I've ever know that wanted to go wanted to go for Mardi Gras but I hate being in crowds of drunk people. I'll get there one of these years.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 08, 2007, 07:12 PM:
 
Mardi Gras is wonderful, if you live there.

They start with the first ball the 12th night after christmas. And it builds until there's a ball every week. And the parades start. And there's one every week, and then one every day and then several a day, until at the end Comus (I think) goes through the quarter with the king and queen of carnival.

And everyone goes to the cathedral at midnight and gets the ashes on the forehead. It is an orgasm that builds over weeks and months. A psychic douche, and I think it's very healthy. People that live in New Orleans have a closet full of carnival costumes, and one of the joys of masking is to do and/or be whatever it is you've always wanted to do and been afraid, or just to have fun.

But there was so much that made New Orleans special. On St. Patrick's day they had a parade through the garden district, up Magazine I believe. There were troups of boys, children of the different crews. The boys were dressed formally, top had and tails, carrying polls with flowers stuck in them and they would give the girls watching the parade a flower for a kiss.

And troups of girls, also children of the crewes, with strings of beads on their arms. And they would give the boys watching the parade a string of beads for a kiss.

New Orleans is very big on audience participation. Especially that kind.

And they also had big floats and would throw carrots and cabages and potatoes and onions at the crowd, everything you needed for an Irish stew except the meat.

So if you didn't go home with all the fixin's for an Irish Stew, you weren't trying.

Living life is an art in New Orleans. No where else have I lived where so much attention is given to style. Where style is substance.

I lived both in The Quarter and Up-Town, just off St. Charles, near Audobon Park.

I took the street car to the quarter and back to work when I lived up-town, among the mansions.

The Victors are medical marijuana patients and activists in Temeculah. They have a Brady Bunch house but what's inside is deifinitely NOT the Brady Bunch. It's behind the Temeculah Inn and Golf Club, about a mile from the casino. They have at least a double lot, with a pool. We had 24 plants growing in the back yard. And they had a cliff in the backyard full of critters. Gophers. All sorts of things. It was a nature preserve.

[ January 08, 2007, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 08, 2007, 08:41 PM:
 
That sounds wonderful. Somehow it doesn't look like that on TV to me, but I suppose that's no way to see it.

quote:
Living life is an art in New Orleans. No where else have I lived where so much attention is given to style. Where style is substance.
I love the way you put that [Smile] So why did you leave?
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 08, 2007, 08:55 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LocalYokel:
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Only in the same way that I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I think Mak can back me up on that.

I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
But *I* am the Walrus!
no, no, no, here's another clue for you more, the Walrus was Paul...wait a minute...you mean homer is actually Paul?
Nope, Mak was right. I am the Eggman.
 
Posted by Planner (Member # 543) on January 08, 2007, 09:29 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
I've never quite bought the troller excuse that they don't really mean the things that they say or that they just say them to get a reaction, any more than I buy that people don't mean the things they say when they're drunk. Your inhibitions might be lowered by alcohol or anonymity, but that stuff is coming from somewhere.

I agree with that. Gotta great quote from James McMurtry: "Whiskey don't make liars; it just makes fools. I didn't mean to say that, but I meant what I said." I'm going from memory, so I may not have it word for word or line for line, but that's the gist of it.

Oh, and There at the end of I am the Walrus, are they chanting "Everyone's got one" or are they chanting "Everyone smoke pot"?

Whatever. Goo goo a choo

[ January 08, 2007, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Planner ]
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on January 08, 2007, 10:16 PM:
 
quote:
The irony whooshes over conXious's head as he posts on the wrong thread:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by conSCious:
not that i want to get in a p*ssing match with l'ard, but maybe you can help him out with writing with a sentence like below:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trenobus's technique of introducing quotes with snide theatrical 'asides’ spreads like flu in a labor camp with:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ha ha.

he he he. pay attention l'ard and the irony might hit you in the butt. probly not.

nice writing psb. you are truly talented. pure magic...wish i had your way with the turn of a phrase.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 08, 2007, 11:14 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
Nope, Mak was right.

Finally!!!! [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by homer:
I am the Eggman.

Whew......
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on January 09, 2007, 03:19 AM:
 
PBS,

I hope you write a book someday. You have led a many faceted and interesting life and you are a wonderful writer. I know you are much distracted by the everyday ramifications of basic survival but always manage to have the time to to convey your take on life w/your laptop. Write that puppy and I for one would be lined up to read it.
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on January 09, 2007, 03:27 AM:
 
Sorry,
I mean PSB, not PBS. No corolation between Bum and beer in this case. [Smile] Seiously, you have a good book in you and I hope you write it someday.
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on January 09, 2007, 03:55 AM:
 
Arrrrgh....or confuse good television with bad beer. Note to self; Dont post until night meds wear off and coffee kicks in! My bad.
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on January 09, 2007, 07:03 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by LocalYokel:
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
Only in the same way that I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I think Mak can back me up on that.

I can: I don't know why he says goodbye; I say hello.
But *I* am the Walrus!
no, no, no, here's another clue for you more, the Walrus was Paul...wait a minute...you mean homer is actually Paul?
Nope, Mak was right. I am the Eggman.
They are the eggman...so it's you with all the aliases.

Hey, at least I didn't start up with the acid jokes...what's the difference between a duck...oh never mind.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on January 09, 2007, 08:00 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra2:
Arrrrgh....or confuse good television with bad beer. Note to self; Dont post until night meds wear off and coffee kicks in! My bad.

You had my head spinning for a moment! [Smile]
I didn't know whether to watch TV, drink beer or read a book!
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 09, 2007, 10:17 AM:
 
The memories of New Orleans just keep washing over me.

As I said, I started with an apartment in the Garden District and a job at Pat O'Briens. There was a little cafe next to Pattie O's and I would generally eat there or across the street before I went to work. The food in the cafes was cheap and excellent, with fresh bread. Shrimp Creole. Jambalaya. Etouffee. And the coffee.

The first few days this man followed me around in the quarter as I poked around and found my way to the gay bars. It turns out the second largest bar in the quarter was a gay bar, Lafette's, and I was told Jean Lafette, the famous pirate who saved New Orleans was gay, or very bi.

 -

Well, I just had to turn off my telephone because my mother won't stop calling me. I told her I didn't want to talk and hung up. And she called me again. She uses a calling card so I can't block her number. And when she gets like this she won't leave me alone until she's escalated me and I've gotten in trouble somehow, and then she blames me...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 09, 2007, 11:31 AM:
 
That picture is beautiful.

On a good day I remind myself that my mom calls over and over because she loves me and worries about me and that's just what moms do no matter how old we get. On a bad day I stop answering the phone so I don't make whatever it is worse by getting sarcastic with her.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 09, 2007, 12:21 PM:
 
I found a picture of the artists in Jackson Square:

 -

And here is Jackson Square:

 -

This is a really great album of photos from The Quarter and New Orleans: http://www.eveandersson.com/usa/la/new-orleans

This is one of the vendors from Jackson Square from that album: http://www.ev eandersson.com/photos/photo-display?photo_path=%2fphotos%2fusa%2fla%2fnew%2dorleans%2ffrench%2dquarter%2doutside%2djackson%2dsquare&photo_size=large

And another view of Jackson Square. I believe that is the Pantalba, the first apartment building in the U.S.

 -

Here is a picture of a street musician on Royal:

 -

These people apply for permits to perform in the street - Royal during the day and Bourbon at night. The vendors and artists on Jackson Square also apply for permits and are assigned spaces.

Seems way back when, Royal was the street where the ladies went shopping, and Bourbon was the street where men did business. And they did not comingle during the day because, well, heavens knew what might happen....

I couldn't find a picture of the Imperial Palace Regency or Henrietta, but I did find an article about Lorraine, and she wasn't a Lee.

quote:
Lorraine was born in the back room of a Chinese laundry. "My dad owned a laundry long before he went into the restaurant business," she explained. "He had Tulane students working for him for 25 cents a week.

"There were eight children in our family so he had to work hard. My oldest sister was born in China but the rest of us were born in the U.S.A.," she said.

Lorraine learned the restauant business at a very young age. "I worked from the time I was 13, and I still work. I opened my very own restaurant in 1968 and had a nightclub also. Both were very successful."

She sold out in 1979 and opened the Imperial Palace Regency at the Hyatt in New Orleans. "The building was 13,000-square-feet and we could seat 450 people. Again, I had a successful business."

...Lorraine still has fond memories of growing up in New Orleans. She was a champion swimmer in school, and also rode in the Mardi Gras parade in 1975 as queen of the Krewe of Venus.

"I was the very first non-Caucasian or minority queen ever to ride," she said. "My daughter Victoria rode as the Mardi Gras Washington Ball queen and my granddaughter Destin also rode in Mardi Gras as the Washington Ball queen."

http://www.lowcountrynow.com/stories/101200/LOCallens.shtml

I worked in the bars at night, went out with friends afterwards, had coffee and read the paper and then went home and slept on the roof to keep my tan up.

Evidently, last Christmas New Orleans got dusted with snow. Here is a view of the French Quarter rooftops, and very similar to the view from the rooftop of my garden apartment at Governor Nichols & Burgundy (which I haven't been able to find a picture of).

 -

There were so many things charming about New Orleans. I remember one of the things that struck me was that people greeted each other with "Yea, you right," rather than "good morning"

In today's parlance I guess that would equate to "It's all good."

And at dusk everyone would come out in the street and people would sit on their stoops, if they were lucky enough to have one, and sip a cup of wine. Or stroll around. The bars had go-cups on the cigarette machines at the door, so as you left you dumped your drink in a plastic cup and you could stroll down the street and chat.

And there was always someone sitting on the stoop with a jug, willing to freshen your drink should you need it.

A New Orleans stoop:

 -

And that place may not look like much on the outside, but I bet it's a palace inside, and at night with the shutters open...

...I've been tryhing to explain to Robert how unfriendly the architecture is here. For instance, all these sun awnings that are totally useless agains the rain, and in a rain forest.

Here are some perfect examples of what I mean by RAIN AWNINGS.

 -

 -

[ January 09, 2007, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on January 09, 2007, 12:52 PM:
 
PSB
quote:
It was magic.

I could write a book about that alone.

Craig, my man, you are missing your calling! Write that book. In fact, write lots of them. Although I am not a literary expert, and certainly have no talent for writing, I do believe that I know what it is when I read it.

Perhaps, just perhaps you might have stumbled upon a way out of some of your troubles. Have at it.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 09, 2007, 03:19 PM:
 
Damit, PSB, write the book. You make much of today's "Literature" look like chickenscratch.
Somebody down there find PSB a pied a terre and grubstake him for 20% of the movie rights.
Otherwise, PSB, when you are gone, it is gone too.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 09, 2007, 03:23 PM:
 
That or you should write travelogues. I'm totally determined to visit New Orleans now - you make it sound so wonderful. I still don't want to go to Mardi Gras though. I want to wander around almost-empty streets at dawn like in those pictures.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 10, 2007, 05:40 AM:
 
What should PSB name his first book?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 10, 2007, 05:50 AM:
 
It would drive me nuts to write that much in web forms or using notepad. Does anyone know of any open source word processors that are ready for prime time and don't lose all their formatting when opened in Word?
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on January 10, 2007, 07:55 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
It would drive me nuts to write that much in web forms or using notepad. Does anyone know of any open source word processors that are ready for prime time and don't lose all their formatting when opened in Word?

Google has a free word processing program. I haven't tried, but I'll bet it's top shelf.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 10, 2007, 08:01 AM:
 
Thanks - I'll mess around with it and see how well it works.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 10, 2007, 08:15 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
What should PSB name his first book?

Homage to Caliphonyia?
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 10, 2007, 08:52 AM:
 
Good start!
 
Posted by trenobus (Member # 2065) on January 10, 2007, 09:31 AM:
 
http://www.openoffice.org/
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 10, 2007, 10:11 AM:
 
I haven't sat down to read anything yet, but you were kicking around the idea of shipping containers as housing, and I realized that photo I used to illustrate a New Orleans stoop was of a shotgun, which is essentially a rectangle with the doors at the end and no hallway, with one room opening into another.

I don't recall ever seeing anything like it here and realized you people may never have seen one.

Searching on "floor plan shotgun New Orleans" I find the first hit is an excellent Wikipedia article with a floor plan!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house

I am becoming quite impressed with Wikipedia.
quote:

The shotgun house is a narrow rectangular domestic residence, usually no more than 12 feet (3.5 m) wide, with doors at each end. It was the most popular style of house in the Southern United States from the end of the Civil War (1861–65), through to the 1920s. Alternate names include shotgun shack, shotgun hut, shotgun cottage, and railroad apartments. The style was developed in New Orleans, but the houses can be found as far away as Chicago, California or Key West, Florida. Shotgun houses are still the most prevalent housing style in many southern cities and towns.

It's a great article, but at least check out the floor plan.
quote:

The rooms are well-sized, and have relatively high ceilings for cooling purposes, as when warm air can rise higher, the lower part of a room tends to be cooler. Rooms usually have some decoration such as moldings, ceiling medallions, and elaborate woodwork. In cities like New Orleans, local industries supplied elaborate but mass-produced brackets and other ornaments for shotgun houses that were accessible even to homeowners of modest means.



[ January 10, 2007, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 10, 2007, 10:34 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by trenobus:
http://www.openoffice.org/

Thanks trenobus. Craig, do you feel like you want or need a word processor, and do you want me to mess around with these and see how they work?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 10, 2007, 11:04 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
I am becoming quite impressed with Wikipedia.

Me too.

That's a laughably awful floorplan. No privacy, bad hygiene, and the most inefficient possible retrofit to street utilities.

[ January 10, 2007, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 10, 2007, 11:25 AM:
 
I don't know about retrofit to street utilities, but the bathroom should be in the bedroom.

They also taxed closets as separate rooms, which is why there are no closets. They used armoirs, or as we called them in alabama chifferobes.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 10, 2007, 01:01 PM:
 
I thought that was what an etagiere is. I'm clearly not up on fancy furniture names.

Craig - can you afford a hotel for the next few nights? It's going to get really, really cold. Chances are we'll even have snow up at my place but that's pretty unlikely down here.
 
Posted by WUCLIB (Member # 2209) on January 10, 2007, 01:17 PM:
 
And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack

Same as it ever was

"Once in a Lifetime" Talking Heads

I've often wondered about those lyrics. And now I know. Thanks PSB.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 10, 2007, 01:29 PM:
 
I thought that was what an etagiere is.

That's shelving of a certain type.

Etagere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etagere

No, I can't afford a room. And it was cold this morning even though it was supposed to be and -feel- relatively warm. It felt icy to me.

[ January 10, 2007, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Planner (Member # 543) on January 10, 2007, 01:59 PM:
 
PSB,

Like Cagey said, it is supposed to get really cold the next few nights. The forecast says there is some small chance of precipitation, but there could be snow as low as 2,000 feet if there is precipitation. Do what you can to be extra warm tonight.

Oh yeah: Like others have posted, I'm enjoing your stories of the south and your youth.

[ January 10, 2007, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Planner ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 10, 2007, 02:27 PM:
 
Craig, as you know it will be the worst from 5 till 8 or so. If it's too cold to sleep, I know that the donut shop on Mission just past Safeway is open when I drive by it at about 5:15 in the morning and it shouldn't cost much at all there to nurse a cup of coffee or 2 till it warms up. It might be open 24/7.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 10, 2007, 03:54 PM:
 
If it's the Farrell's I'm thinking of, it was the first place I was banned in Santa Cruz, back when I still had the Volvo, before I'd gone to Homeless Services. (And why do I suspect you know this?)

It was early in the morning, I really had to pee, and I went in and asked for the restroom. I think they wanted me to buy something so I bought a cup of coffee, on the verge of peeing in my pants with every move.

Well, there was someone in the bathroom, and when they came out they had stopped up the toilet with toilet paper. And the counter-girl looked at that and stood in the door of the toilet, blocking it so I couldn't shut it, and (knowing I was about to pee all over myself) stood there and told me how sorry she was and would I like some toilet paper.

Well, I told her I was about to pee in my pants and to get out of the door so I could shut it.

I got the door shut, but my pants were substantially wet before I could get to the toilet...

...and then I had to deal with a policeman.

Another charming memory of Santa Cruz I had completely forgotten.

[ January 10, 2007, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 10, 2007, 03:59 PM:
 
I'm really sorry Craig - I didn't know and didn't mean to remind you of something bad. There's also one on Ocean down toward Denny's.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 10, 2007, 04:09 PM:
 
What about the coffee shop resturaunt next to Paul's Bar? Lots of truckers stop there 24/7. It's just up Mission from Ferrel's...
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 10, 2007, 04:18 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Another charming memory of Santa Cruz I had completely forgotten.

And I bet they have also.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 10, 2007, 07:44 PM:
 
Hey Homer isn't there a Ferrell's in Scotts Valley, that is still owned by the bald white guy, who started the whole business in the 1960's?
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 10, 2007, 08:11 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
Hey Homer isn't there a Ferrell's in Scotts Valley, that is still owned by the bald white guy, who started the whole business in the 1960's?

There is a Ferrell's in Scotts Valley, but I haven't been in there for years so I don't know who owns it. Us old guys have to watch what we eat. [Frown]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 11, 2007, 10:17 AM:
 
You mean churches don't throw open their doors to the poor any more?
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on January 11, 2007, 10:24 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
You mean churches don't throw open their doors to the poor any more?

Only if they tithe and bow to their gods. [Smile]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 11, 2007, 11:12 AM:
 
The Interfaith Sattelite Shelter Program hsa been operating for about 20 years now. Most years there are about 50 participating churches that rotate taking about 15 people each night and there used to be 4 groups each night in the winter and two in the summer IIRC. Craig can probably update us on their current schedule. It's a difficult program because the churches insist that they be bussed in and out so it doesn't work at all for working people that can't get there early enough for the bus, and the transportation costs are huge. HSC is remodeling part of their space to be used as nighttime shelter and that will replace the church groups. It's also legal for churches to allow up to 3 people to sleep in vehicles on their lots. That seems to only happen for homeless people that are part of their congregations, but at least it's something. There may be any number of churches doing a guerilla shelter thing, but they probably keep it to themselves to avoid hassles from the neighbors.

[ January 11, 2007, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by lookwithin (Member # 1906) on January 11, 2007, 11:31 AM:
 
Like the old underground churches of previous eras.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 11, 2007, 08:00 PM:
 
Not acceptable. Not even cost effective.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 11, 2007, 08:13 PM:
 
What, the church shelters? You won't get an argument from me there. It wasn't a coincidence that I quit 6 months or so after we had to take it over (not that it was the only reason.) It's wonderful of the church folks to want to help and they're providing a much-needed service that almost no one else will, but the design just doesn't work. To staff it adequately you'd have to easily triple the budget, and there is no flexibility to the bus schedule so that working folks or people with things they have to do in the late afternoon or evening are left out.

I hope they find a way to keep the church people involved when they replace that program next year, but I'll sure be happy to see it finally go. It was an emergency solution 20 years or so ago, but there are so many better and cheaper ways to do it.

If that isn't what you meant, sorry for that digression [Smile]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 12, 2007, 12:24 AM:
 
There was some news about the Santa Cruz homeless shelters on the 11 PM news tonight. They are full according to channel 8. Temps are gonna drop into the 20's in many areas tonight and maybe tomorrow night as well...
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 12, 2007, 07:19 AM:
 
Perhaps we need some minimum standard shelter design and zoning that will allow an owner to make a profit from operating a flop house. Churches could provide chits and transportation, thus not antagonizing their own neighbors with their charity.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 13, 2007, 05:38 PM:
 
No admission before 6 or after 8.
Bring on the flop houses.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 14, 2007, 08:16 AM:
 
Homage to Caliphonyia?

That's cute. I just saw it. I've read Homage to Catalonia by Orwell. Very interesting book.

And not read by many people.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 14, 2007, 08:19 AM:
 
Morning Craig.

We're anxiously awaiting the next chapter [Smile]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 14, 2007, 08:20 AM:
 
I believe Orwell is illegal in public schools and colleges now.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 14, 2007, 08:25 AM:
 
Mother sent me some money the other day for a room and I got one. The cheap rooms are all taken and the cheapest room I could get is $60/night. $70 on the weekends.

Their budget rate is $50/night. The clerk told me they have 5 people that essentially live in those rooms and they're never available. And the only let them stay there for 28 days because if they're there longer by law they become tenants and acquire rights...and they can't have tenants with rights.

As for me, I will probably take another advance against my next benefit to get a room for one more day. Once I get in a room I can't make myself leave until my money's all gone.

The way this town soaks the poor is truly obscene. Two years ago when I stayed in the same motel, in the same room, it was $30/night. Evidently the motels are raising their rates $10/year. So far this week I've paid $50 (just in City Tax) to sleep indoors. How much did you pay?

I sit here and think getting a room for another day is a week at Pergolesi's, and it is a week I will have no where to go but the library, when it's open, if it's open.

And by the end of next week I'll be broke.

If it weren't for the poor all your cheap little motels would go under during the winter. It is the poor that pay their operating expenses.

Oh, and they have studios for $350/week.

[ January 14, 2007, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 14, 2007, 09:38 AM:
 
howbout FEMA trailers? declare the county-and the nation and State-and the world for that matter
a "natural" disaster due to overpopulation-

as people spitting out baby after baby after baby after baby after baby after baby after baby

and earth is tapped out-

ya build one house for example-but by the time its built-20 babies are spat out

like some assembly line....of cheap human overbreeding-often abandoned by the parents...left to us taxpayers.

a glut of cheap labor n cannon fodder-so the churches n GOP n riech promote this. [Wink] [Big Grin]
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on January 14, 2007, 09:39 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
So far this week I've paid $50 (just in City Tax) to sleep indoors. How much did you pay?...

For the record, $66 in taxes.

quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
...Oh, and they have studios for $350/week.

There are 28 listings on Craigslist for rooms under $500/month.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 14, 2007, 09:43 AM:
 
This one sounds great for $425 - I bet it's gone already.

Private little place
 
Posted by Planner (Member # 543) on January 14, 2007, 09:49 AM:
 
PSB,

I have a few ideas for you.

Have you thought about finding a partner to work with and split living expenses? Surely you've met some folks in the community that are in a similar situation as yourself...

Check out the hostels in Santa Cruz and Monterey. They have bunk rooms and kitchens. You need to be out by 9 a.m. I think it is every morning, and they won't let you drink or use drugs on the premises, but they won't pee test you either. If you take a walk around the block and discretely come back with John Prine's illegal smile...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 14, 2007, 09:54 AM:
 
I wonder about the hostel at Pidgeon Point during the winter and how much it costs. It's such a beautiful spot.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 14, 2007, 11:20 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Walter E. Wallis:
Perhaps we need some minimum standard shelter design and zoning that will allow an owner to make a profit from operating a flop house.

Matthew Thompson, architect, has been calling for that for years.

Unfortunately, he's been frozen out of the discussion by the clenchers because he, being an architect, must be a "developer."

And God knows we can't listen to any of THOSE.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 14, 2007, 12:02 PM:
 
Interesting how church shelters are an option with that whole seperation of church and state thing. Wouldnt the homeless feel that they are having God jammed down there throats with all that Godly stuff on the walls? Seems like an opening for an ACLU lawyer to get on the news to me..
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 14, 2007, 12:12 PM:
 
The churches don't directly get the money from the state to run it. The nonprofit group that started ISSP used to get a Federal Emergency Shelter Grant, which comes from federal funds passed as block grants to the state. A few years ago the State stopped funding ISSP because they felt that they just couldn't keep supporting such an inefficient model. (At least that's the reason I heard. I know that the state made that pretty clear to me as well when I ran it for that one season before I quit.) Faith based groups were eligible for those funds only if they signed statements that they wouldn't proselytize or discriminate in their hiring practices.

Anyway, the churches donate the use of their community rooms, provide a hot dinner, and none required prayer or attending services during the year that I was there although I'm sure some said grace before dinner. It's great of them to help, but the transportation and staffing costs to support 4 different sites a night instead of one walk-up shelter are just too expensive to make sense.

[ January 14, 2007, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 14, 2007, 03:35 PM:
 
Perhaps a place where churches and civic clubs could rotate the operation without getting into a fight with their neighbors. A kitchen alone can be a huge expense for any single congregation The last three kitchens I designed didn't get built because of piled up regs and neighbor opposition. How about a KOA type organization for the commercial side?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 15, 2007, 06:52 AM:
 
I wish we would make better use of existing public buildings for walk-in emergency shelters. Both the Civic Center and the Vets Hall bunker have good commercial kitchens. If you think the church program isn't cost-effective, wait till you see the Armory budget. They take about 100 people a night up there during the winter, and the National Guard charges an insane amount of money to rent the place and insists on professional security and cleaning services that also cost a fortune. I can't remember the number off the top of my head and they don't put their budgets on their website, but it was close to $50K just on overhead before you even got to staffing costs. It's an insane waste of money, and all because no one wants them close by or wandering around.

ETA:
There were a lot of efforts to get the State to disallow the highway robbery of charging so much to use the Armory, and they may have been successful by now.

[ January 15, 2007, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 15, 2007, 03:14 PM:
 
We're anxiously awaiting the next chapter

Thanks. I intend to write it. It took me a day or two to get everything that happened in New Orleans in chronological sequence. For instance, I said I lived on shrimp and fine wine, and it was true, I did - it was 'left-overs' from Arnaud's. And some of those bottles of wine cost $5,000.

But I know I also had a relapse of the hepatitus in New Orleans, so I couldn't drink. But I think I have it all sorted out now.

But besides getting a room, I got caught up in my genealogy. There's this genealogy I've been relying on a great deal for my father's side of the family. It's been on RootsWeb for years, the guy can trace his genealogy back to Adam a dozen or more ways, and he's my 7th cousin, I discovered last night. He has 100,000 entries in his genealogy. Now, I've got about 15,000 in mine and I've been working on it for years.

But it was sort of like getting a royal flush. He was the only main source that I suspected was a relative that I did not know exactly how they were related. And now I do.

His family fled the rising tide of civilization, coming through Missouri and into Idaho, Oegon, Washington, and California.

They worked the mines and were lumberjacks, and, well, it was quite a saga. A Western saga.

What really got me is this:

quote:
I have heard you father's testimony at last three times. I am convinced that he knows the Lord and is saved. If you are concerned by his actions think on his heart. Remember how much he loved you, how much he appreciated me because of his love for you. I think he loved the Lord as well. The testimony of the single mothers at his funeral was a great testimony of service to his fellow man in a way that could only be inspired by the Lord. He also was a man of truth, even though it may have been brutal. My favorite verse in the Bile is Jesus is the way the truth and the life. The Bible also say that Satan is the father of lies. Living the truth is not easy and none of us do it all the time. At times of fear or in fights for preservation, image, a job, self, etc.; we all often stray from the truth. But all of us have times when we need to be truthful to ourselves and if we are fortunate enough to share that time with someone we can truly see their soul. I believe I had several such opportunities with your father and I believe he is saved and now with the Lord. I am sure you know some of the dark things in your father's life but, so what. My point is don't look at the sins, look at the heart. I have seen your father's heart and I know he is saved.
Ok, the guy was born in 61, is married. Evidently his father divorced his mother shortly after he was born, married two women, divorced them and continued to cohabit with the last one, and he has a step-sister that was married about a dozen times.

He father's cause of death was listed as hypothermia, but he believes ...

quote:
Officially died of hypothermia; however, the death scene indicated non-natural causes of death. Found lying supine under a culvert in a drainage ditch, a pistol discharged three times found above in driveway. He had shot at something through the van parked in the driveway.
And I sat there thinking about this very distant cousin, and his genealogy of over 100,000 names.

I broke down and installed IE 7 this morning. The improvement in the FONTS is striking.

[ January 15, 2007, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 15, 2007, 04:43 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
But all of us have times when we need to be truthful to ourselves and if we are fortunate enough to share that time with someone we can truly see their soul.

I really like this part.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 15, 2007, 07:51 PM:
 
quote:
I wonder about the hostel at Pidgeon Point during the winter and how much it costs. It's such a beautiful spot.
Not sure about the hostel! Friends used to car camp next to lighthouse and the ocean, after leaving Grateful Dead concerts in the Bay Area. A nice quiet place to smoke MARIJUANA too.

The sheriff doesn't much care either, unless they get complaints about an a--hole who cannot behave himself. Sit on a park bench. Take your medicine. Nobody cares...
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 15, 2007, 08:12 PM:
 
I checked that out before my car died. There's a waiting list, it's $20-25/night, all sorts of rules and regs, and there's a maximum stay of 2-weeks or something like that.

About the same as camping.

You people sit around and raise your rents so that no one on disability can afford them, and do everything you can to drive out the poor and disabled, and then sit around and tell yourselves they're just lazy.

That building over at Harvey West says it all. There are no eaves on that main building, the one the pool's behind. A public building in a rain forest with no eaves!!!

The only place that you can stand out of the rain is in the PLANTERS.

It was obviously designed to be inhospitable.

You cannot design you town to be inhospitable and then expect it to be hospital.

Well, you can. And you most obviously have.

[ January 15, 2007, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 15, 2007, 08:40 PM:
 
quote:
You people sit around and raise your rents so that no one on disability can afford them, and do everything you can to drive out the poor and disabled, and then sit around and tell yourselves they're just lazy.
A lot of working class heroes cannot afford the rent in Santa Cruz either. Then they use every method immaginable to prevent any more homes from being built. That makes the rents go up again and again.

Green on the outside red (socialists) inside! Here is the latest example of our watermelon crowd in action.

Eastside fight over new housing going strong

By Shanna McCord
Sentinel staff writer

The Peoples' Republik of SANDINISTA CRUZ — Two women with plans to build new homes at a former church site in Seabright have caved to pressures from neighbors who'd rather see the land used to expand Frederick Street Park.

And it will generate no revenues to pay for their social welfare programs.

While the partners say they're willing to sell the land, no offers have come forward so far.

Of course there will be no offers from people who want some FREE land.

Christy Brandt and Michelle Bensky, who bought the Frederick Street property from the Jehovah's Witnesses Church in 2005, put their housing plans on hold indefinitely this week to study potential environmental impacts with the project.

The two have called for the study despite city Planning Department officials saying none is required...
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 15, 2007, 08:52 PM:
 
Declare the land a homeless sanctuary, put in a hose bibb and a coupla privies and a sand soak, and then call for inovative shelters.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 16, 2007, 08:29 AM:
 
[a sand soak is an area where waste water can be dumped without making mud]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on January 16, 2007, 11:59 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
... they use every method immaginable to prevent any more homes from being built. That makes the rents go up again and again.

Tell it, bro. Here we have Skip Spitzer of SCAN, and the usual NIMBY "activists," at it again.

First thing they demand when meeting with the owners is that the low-income portion of the project -- the granny units -- be eliminated, and then that the moderate-income portion -- the townhouses -- be sliced away, so that only the high-income portion -- the single family homes -- remain.

Then when they get THAT, they demand that most or all of the remaining portion be eliminated too, so as to keep a monopoly on their own homes, which of course adds to the overall shortage and raises the price of both owned units and, since many of them get rented, raises rents as well.

This is what passes as "progressive policy" among the SCAN hypocrites. Thank goodness voters have begun, in the last few elections, to see through their two-faced grasping selfishness.

[ January 16, 2007, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Mahakala ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 16, 2007, 12:33 PM:
 
Have you thought about finding a partner to work with and split living expenses?

Gosh. I never thought of that.

Thank you so much.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 16, 2007, 12:36 PM:
 
IE 7 seems to be a LOT faster...

Unfortunately, he's been frozen out of the discussion by the clenchers because he, being an architect, must be a "developer."

And God knows we can't listen to any of THOSE.


I can imagine this happening, though the devil is probably in the details.

I'll never forget being told by some control freak at GLAAD that they were opposed to WAR and therefore could not support equal treatment of gays in the military...
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 16, 2007, 12:41 PM:
 
Anyway, the churches donate the use of their community rooms, provide a hot dinner, and none required prayer or attending services during the year that I was there although I'm sure some said grace before dinner.

Don't they also claim something like $50/night/person as a 'charitable contribution'? As the value of sleeping on the floor and what not? I can't figure out how else they can claim $200,000 or whatever it is as a 'charitable contribution' to the homeless.

I'm not sure that is even worth mentioning, as it looks to me more like a public relations white-lie than any real dollars and cents, but it is something I noticed.

If you think the church program isn't cost-effective, wait till you see the Armory budget. They take about 100 people a night up there during the winter, and the National Guard charges an insane amount of money to rent the place and insists on professional security and cleaning services that also cost a fortune. I can't remember the number off the top of my head and they don't put their budgets on their website, but it was close to $50K just on overhead before you even got to staffing costs. It's an insane waste of money, and all because no one wants them close by or wandering around.

This is what I heard, and I also heard a figure of something like it costing $100/person - to sleep on the floor of an armory and be treated like crap.

You didn't mention the cost of the bus ride(s), which I also found amazing.

I like your idea of using the Vets Hall or Civic Auditorium.

One thing that terrifies me about The Armory is that if someone pushes me at the wrong time (something pretty much guaranteed to happen in that environment, with that many people) and they throw me out, or I get there and they won't let me have my medicine and they throw me out, I would be out in the middle of nowhere. I would literally be miles from anyone and anything with no way to get anywhere, way out at the end of Branciforte.

[ January 16, 2007, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 16, 2007, 02:14 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Don't they also claim something like $50/night/person as a 'charitable contribution'? As the value of sleeping on the floor and what not? I can't figure out how else they can claim $200,000 or whatever it is as a 'charitable contribution' to the homeless.

As far as I know, churches don't pay taxes so there would be no need to take a deduction. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that their just another type of 501(c) something-or-other. I know that we had to show it as an in-kind contribution in our budgets and when we did our 990 tax returns, but I can't remember what it was valued at.

quote:
You didn't mention the cost of the bus ride(s), which I also found amazing.
In all the years it operated out of our site but we weren't running it, they used the little vans to get people to the churches and armory. It started at about 4:30 and went on till about 8. It was ridiculous. The first year I had it we got the City to either donate a bus to us or sell it to us ridiculously cheap (I don't remember which) and that made it go a lot faster. The cost of drivers, gas, insurance and random drug testing was nuts. I'm pretty sure now that the City buses have a route or something for it, but I don't know who's picking up the tab.

quote:
I would literally be miles from anyone and anything with no way to get anywhere, way out at the end of Branciforte.
I seem to recall stories of people being thrown out of there in the middle of the night and having no idea of how to find their way out, but those might be shelter rumors. IIRC the one season I had it the policy was that if it was bad enough to throw them out for, call the cops to transport them. I don't think it ever happened though.

[ January 16, 2007, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on January 16, 2007, 05:06 PM:
 
PSB wrote:

quote:
I can't figure out how else they can claim $200,000 or whatever it is as a 'charitable contribution' to the homeless.
It's all part of how "Leadership" monopolizes the very concept of "Need".

They take over all these local Boards with their money, social status and insider connections to charitable trusts. Then, they invent a whole bunch of deliberately wasteful rules and procedures that drive the price of generating Public Benefit sky high. (Such as requiring the "Professional" Administration of 501(c)(3)s, or, they absolutely won't get any of "Leadership's" grant money - it's spelled out clearly in the typical grant guidelines.)

After driving the price of doing good deeds completely out of sight, they can then point to the excessive costs and complain about how expensive it is to provide Public Benefit.

So expensive, in fact, that only they can then step in to "Save the Day" with a large (to anybody but them) contribution - secretly fortifying "Leadership's" powerful, yet extremely inexpensive (to them) "Political Plum": their illegal monopoly over all future 501(c)(3) Board Decisions.

If the infected nonprofit attempts to get its act together and start doing the right thing as a true Public Benefit Corporation, "Leadership" will threaten to pull their dirty money out. That would mean that the nonprofit's "Officially Well Respected" professional administrator might lose her POSH little "Arts" job (or, "Homeless" job, or whatever).

Selling that typical sob story in the media is how "Leadership" receives its hefty tax breaks for secretly aggrandizing major political power, even as they're scamming their pet crooked politicians to to bail their "Charity" out with our Tax Money.

Glad I could help.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 16, 2007, 06:58 PM:
 
quote:
I'll never forget being told by some control freak at GLAAD that they were opposed to WAR and therefore could not support equal treatment of gays in the military...
And then they tell the recruiters to get the hell off the UCSC campus; because they agree with the GLAAD opinions...
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 16, 2007, 07:03 PM:
 
How many votes for investor owned flop houses?
Once you take the Queen's Shilling you gotta live by the Queen's rules. Money grubbers just don't want the joint burned down or the money to be counterfeit. How about that, Mak?
Back in my paper boy days, a dollar would get you a flop, a bowl of beans and a bottle of muscadoodle.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on January 17, 2007, 03:18 PM:
 
All night free piano concerts with a free reception (donated food, beverage and shelter for the bums). They can sleep in their seats or, on the floor in the lobby.

Technically, we wouldn't be offering them a room. Since anyone from the Public could attend the free concerts, it would be a "general access" Public Benefit activity. As such, it would be totally inappropriate to demand a "pee test" from our audience.

Since I generally stay up all night playing the piano anyway, I volunteer my services.
 
Posted by Planner (Member # 543) on January 17, 2007, 09:03 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Have you thought about finding a partner to work with and split living expenses?

Gosh. I never thought of that.

Thank you so much.

If it was a dumb idea, never mind. I've read some of your posts and know you've been burned by some folks. But when you posted about the cost of a hotel room, I thought maybe you at least might know someone you could work with on a short term basis to split costs.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 17, 2007, 09:40 PM:
 
Since I generally stay up all night playing the piano anyway, I volunteer my services.

Ya know Billbo, that is a very interesting idea.

Just play nocturnes ... pianissimo.

[ January 20, 2007, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 22, 2007, 04:07 PM:
 
Open-Office is a 30 minute download at 54kb/sec.

[ January 22, 2007, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 22, 2007, 05:21 PM:
 
quote:
I thought maybe you at least might know someone you could work with on a short term basis to split costs.

Dont worry planner. Its far easier to cry about your treatment at the hands of 'nazis' than to be an adult and take care of yourself.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 22, 2007, 06:31 PM:
 
We do throw unnecessary obstacles in the way of self maintenance.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 22, 2007, 07:10 PM:
 
I thought maybe you at least might know someone you could work with on a short term basis to split costs.

Oh puhleeze. The only way I'd get a moments peace is to just give them all my medicine. That is, until they'd smoked it all.

Consider who would be willing to split a motel room with someone for a week, and why.

You people are so lost in space when it comes to the real world.
 
Posted by Planner (Member # 543) on January 22, 2007, 10:22 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
I thought maybe you at least might know someone you could work with on a short term basis to split costs.

Oh puhleeze. The only way I'd get a moments peace is to just give them all my medicine. That is, until they'd smoked it all.

Consider who would be willing to split a motel room with someone for a week, and why.

You people are so lost in space when it comes to the real world.

PSB, you are a hard person to like.

So you are the only honest homeless person in Santa Cruz, and all the rest of them are out to steal or smoke all your dope? I'd bet there are more than a few folks who would split a room for the same reasons you would: to hold down the cost, and to get out of the cold.

Well never mind. I won't offer any more suggestions.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 23, 2007, 05:48 AM:
 
It was a good suggestion, Planner. Most of the folks that I knew with SSI/SSDI checks chipped in for hotel rooms with a friend to make them last twice as long.

One of the sadder things to see was how many new 'friends' some of the mentally ill and developmentally disabled people had on the 1st of every month. Scammers would do whatever it took to convince some lonely, confused person to 'share the wealth' of their monthly check and within days it would be all spent on drugs and alcohol, leaving the person with no money to get through the month in. Month after month it would happen because these poor folks were so desperate to feel like people wanted to be around them and that they had friends. It drove me nuts because technically there wasn't anything I could do about it other than continually try to hook them up with another person with a check that they could share a room with instead of the vultures.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 11:32 AM:
 
Look folks, I've been on the lookout for someone to share a room with. Of course it was the first thing I thought about.

You should hear how patronizing and downright disrespectful you sound.

I'm not an idiot.

But thanks for insinuating I am.

You do-gooders are all alike.

I have been looking for a place to live for TEN YEARS. I HAVE DONE NOTHING ELSE.

I INTEND TO DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH MY LIFE FOR A CHANGE AND YOU CAN ALL GO TO HELL.

Your damn Homeless Services manipulated me into a position where I will never get out of debt. There is no way to get out of debt much less get anything ahead.

SO YOU CAN TAKE YOUR DAMN SUGGESTIONS AND SHOVE THEM UP YOUR *** .

[ January 23, 2007, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Planner (Member # 543) on January 23, 2007, 12:11 PM:
 
Well, this sure went south, didn't it?

[ January 23, 2007, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Planner ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 23, 2007, 12:19 PM:
 
At least write. We probably deserve your scorn, but you did get an audience here.
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on January 23, 2007, 12:29 PM:
 
Sorry, but the reason the Tech Services guy asks stupid questions like "Is it plugged in?" and "Is it turned on?" is because sometimes we miss the (seemingly) simple solutions.

It sounds like PSB would be best served in an SRO situation.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 12:30 PM:
 
Oh I'll write alright.

You know, someone WOKE ME UP LAST NIGHT TO ASK IF I HAD ANY MATCHES.

And Planner sits there and tries to shame me because I couldn't find someone to share a motel room with, on a moment's notice.

It has been YEARS since I've had ANY privacy whatsoever.

I have worn the same clothes (and not bathed) for nearly a week because I don't even have enough privacy to change clothes.

And I know, it's my fault. I'm just not clever enough or resourceful enough.

And you know, I found myself thinking last night, why should I sit here and amuse you?

I mean really?

What have you ever done to amuse me?

Well, we can't dope him up on drugs and get him to pick up trash, so maybe we can get him to write embarassing stories?

Meanwhile, I'm sitting on the street in public, 24 hours a day.

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

[ January 23, 2007, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 23, 2007, 12:42 PM:
 
Oh come on, Planner wasn't trying to shame you, he was just trying to be helpful. I don't know why you assume that he should know all the details of your attempts to find roommates. We aren't all one homogenous group here in case you haven't noticed.

Since we're ranting though, you're aren't exactly being a paragon of manners yourself these days. You had me send emails and make calls to get you that letter from Barisone and then just ignored it when I told you about it. I hate bothering people like him for no reason.
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on January 23, 2007, 12:55 PM:
 
Cagey wrote:
quote:
One of the sadder things to see was how many new 'friends' some of the mentally ill and developmentally disabled people had on the 1st of every month. Scammers would do whatever it took to convince some lonely, confused person to 'share the wealth' of their monthly check and within days it would be all spent on drugs and alcohol, leaving the person with no money to get through the month in
This is one of my biggest issues with the non-disabled homeless population, because it impacts some of my sickest clients in pretty horrible ways...I do not think its OK to diss a person when they are down, but if they are down and abusing others that are not only down, but disabled as well, then my threshhold moves a bit.

Remember when addiction was considered a "disability?" Well, when that changed (1996?)the mentally ill population all of the sudden had waves of people that were "schizoaffective," or "Bi-polar," within the first 1-2 years of the change. The addicts were mostly savvy enough to re-apply for benefits claiming mental illness in order to continue getting the free ride they had been getting. But, the saddest part is that those that were actually mentally ill and happen to have benefits because of "addiction," ended up losing their benefits because they "no longer qualified" for them, and did not have the capacity to re-apply on their own - causing unneccessary instability and hospitalizations. I have probably helped close to 50 clients in that situation over the past 10 years to re-apply for benefits. Luckily, the system is getting wiser and the screening for MH services is much more involved in order to weed out the "scammers."

Honestly, what the Hell happened to the "American Work Ethic?"
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 23, 2007, 01:08 PM:
 
I remember when that changed and people were flipping out all over because we wouldn't help anyone re-certify without working through County Mental Health, HPHP or SCCCC. It didn't bother me in the least to see the addicts without disabilities losing benefits, but there was no way we were going to get involved in writing supportive statements for people saying that they were mentally ill if no MH worker would do it for them. It was stunning how many people got checks for addictions in the 70s and 80s.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 01:17 PM:
 
Well Greaves, in my case I applied for major clinical depression, was diagnosed as bi-polar in the meantime. And then, when the case came up and they asked me what medications I was using, and I told them marijuana, the refused my claim and tried to get me to accept an 'addiction' diagnosis.

So I suffered in an SRO for years while that was appealed, and I eventually WON.

And Cagey, you know, it was all I could do to respond to your email. I'm sorry I didn't call, but it really was all I could do to respond to the email.

I suppose you would say I was depressed, or procrastinating, but it does seem to me any effort is an exerise in futility and just postponing the inevitable.

Well, I feel like I've spent hours typing the same thing over and over, hundreds of times. But just in case y'all missed it. When I first saw I was going to be homeless I went down to Kingo's and paid $15-20 to make a yellow sign with black letters (plastic coated) that said:

Medical Marijuana Patient
Needs Home
$420/500 per month

and my website and cell phone number.

I sat on the street with that sign for weeks and months. I put it in the window of my car, when I had a car.

Not one call, or email.

Not one response.

I even sat there on the street as the WAMM parade went by.

Not one call.

NOT ONE.

And as for Craig's list, I spent months on Craig's list in Hayward. And the only place I found, in months of searching, turned out to be a set-up with the result that I found myself in this lovely living environment, after losing everything I had, including the cat.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 01:23 PM:
 
And when I saw I couldn't live in Brookdale I spent weeks on Craig's list and spending money on gas I couldn't afford driving all over the place and filling out applications.

With no result.

Except some moralizing crap from bibile thumpers and A.A. Nazi's.

Oh yeah, and I woke up in Boulder Creek one morning to see every store on the street had big red and white signs adviertising Jobs, but NOT SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

And of course, I knew they considered me SUBSTANCE ABUSE because I'm not ashamed of my medicine.

[ January 23, 2007, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 23, 2007, 01:25 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
And Cagey, you know, it was all I could do to respond to your email. I'm sorry I didn't call, but it really was all I could do to respond to the email.

I suppose you would say I was depressed, or procrastinating, but it does seem to me any effort is an exerise in futility and just postponing the inevitable.

I didn't know you had even gotten that email. I'm not sure if John is going to mail the letter to you or send it straight to the courts. He's sending a copy to me also which I should get today or tomorrow. He can't violate City policies and dismiss them but he does have the leeway to ask for a suspended sentence which is almost as good. Unfortunately having the activists involved usually means that people have to follow their rules to the letter and can't make exceptions even if they were inclined to. This is the best his office can do and still be doing it 100% by the books.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 01:26 PM:
 
You know, I was preparing to sleep (in my car) on China Grade one night and this roaring drunk wearing a morphine pump came driving up and convinced me to go home with him, that I would get arrested up there.

Oh LORD was that a trip! The guy is on probation, subject to random drug testing, is wearing a morphine pump and guzzling beer, and I'm supposed to clean up his apartment (never mind that I was exhausted and depresssed and really just wanted to be left alone). And I couldn't smoke marijuana there, even though I told him first thing I was a medical marijuana patient and why I was there...
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 01:29 PM:
 
This is the best his office can do and still be doing it 100% by the books.

They're going to put me in jail no matter what I do. And harass me to death on the way.

I don't know what a suspended sentence means. I'm not guilty of any crime and I'm not a criminal.

And I'm a sick and tired of being treated like one.

YOU CAN ALL GO TO HELL.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 01:38 PM:
 
Planner, and Greaves, take a look at this: http://blog.palmspringsbum.com/

It's what I've been going through for YEARS.

You wouldn't even know your own damn name if you'd been through what YOU have put me through.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 23, 2007, 01:45 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
YOU CAN ALL GO TO HELL.

Back to that are we?

(Out of "medicine"?)
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 01:51 PM:
 
And while you're at it, take a look at this:

quote:

November 20, 2004

It's been almost a year since my life was ripped apart yet again.

Since I tried to talk to Bonita about her giving keys out to people I didn't even know that gave them access to my apartment.

Since she called the sheriffs and told them I was growing marijuana.

Since the jail, and the anxiety attacks and the hypomania.

Since they stole my medicine the day before Thanksgiving and tried to throw me out in the street.

Since Lanny somehow came up with $10,000 cash to bail me out of jail on Thanksgiving Day.

Since I got 'home' to find my computer gone, my medicine gone, my grow equipment gone, dirt all over the floor and the stink of cat-piss in my bedroom where the cat had used the dirt on the rug as a litter-box while I was in jail.

And then the terror started as my landlady and the San Bernardino sheriffs tried to steal everything I had and drive me into the street...

I've spent the day setting up my new domain and this blog.

It's been hard unpacking....difficult to get the umph to do anything at all. When I open the boxes everything comes back - being chased down the street by Bonita's nephew screaming for help, and then watching him smash my cassette recorder in the middle of the street, and then the sheriff refusing to do anything because "you were trying to record him".

...

2004_11_01_palmspringsbum_archive.html


It was Thanksgiving day that Jane went into the hospital (the adoptive mother of the person I was living with), and spent over a month there with half her body paralyzed.

And here we have February 9, 2005.

Looking for a home still

quote:

Just went through 50 or so ads. There were only 4 ads for apartments for less than $600 and all of them specified no-smoking and/or no pets. And they didn't have kitchens - just a refrigerator and microwave, NO HOTPLATES! Uh, no thanks. If you're gonna have a problem with a hotplate you're gonna have a problem with everything - like I would pay to live somewhere with no kitchen...

The same was true for most of the shares.

Several specified 'no red meat eaten in the house'.

Sorry, but I'm not going to spend $600/month to have someone tell me what I can and can't eat...

...and lots of female only places.

So, after reading about females only, no smoking, no drugs, no pets, no red meat, no, no, no, for several hours I did manage to find one or two remote possibilities and sent some emails and left some voicemails.

Jane has been moved to Kaiser's Rehab Hospital in Vallejo and will be there till the 24th I'm told. I've been meaning to visit but just can't seem to get myself out of the house.

This turn of events has given me quite a turn. Just when I thought I could begin to do something besides move on move on move on. It's taken me a couple of weeks to get my equilibrium back. It's been months, years, since I've been able to do anything I want to do. Even when I try I can't enjoy it. I can't go to the beach and enjoy myself because I'm constantly carrying this dread and fear with me of losing everything and being on the streets.

The irony of the situation - that in the end a gay Santa Cruz sheriff will have made me homeless, indigent and destitute - I'm sure the San Bernardino Sheriffs are laughing their asses off over this.

Well, I spent every cent I had moving here, trusting I would be treated fairly and decently...I should have known it was too good to be true, I guess.

...

2005_02_01_palmspringsbum_archive.html




[ January 23, 2007, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 01:53 PM:
 
Back to that are we?

(Out of "medicine"?)


No Homer, not at present.

But your kind thought is deeply appreciated.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 02:03 PM:
 
And I want to most deeply and sincerely thank each and every one of you that has made it impossible for me to do anything, blamed and ridiculed me for not doing enough, and smashed and stolen every attempt I've made to help myself and provide my own medicine.

Do you know what I see when I look at that sign of all the happy smiling success stories on Rebele --Family-- Shelter? I see the people that robbed me, stole my plants. The people that yelled "***" at me. The people that knocked on my door and threatened to call the police and tell them I as growing marijuana unless I gave them some. Or money. Or cigarettes.

[ January 23, 2007, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 02:10 PM:
 
And I would particularly like to thank Shannon McCord, who (in the know that she is) has managed to write a dozen or so homeless stories over the past two years and never NO NOT ONCE mention that they give medical marijuana patients the bum's rush.

And all the rest of you, who can't bring yourselves to find just a tensy little bit of that huge social services budget to fund a little corner somewhwere for medical marijuana patients, while parading Robert Anton Wilson in front of city hall...

MAY YOU ROT IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY.

[ January 23, 2007, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 02:16 PM:
 
Unfortunately having the activists involved usually means that people have to follow their rules to the letter and can't make exceptions even if they were inclined to.

And what the Hell is that supposed to mean!?

Am I being blamed because I didn't rebuff the only people that befriended me or did anything to help me?

GO TO HELL.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 23, 2007, 02:19 PM:
 
I'm not going to deal with you when you're like this Craig. I hope things work out ok.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2007, 02:34 PM:
 
Here's a TRUTHFUL description of an SRO:

Coming back home to my Tndc SRO was something else again. "Did you get the money?" That was my sister in St. Louis who usually sends me a hundred bucks every Christmas. Last year she sent cash and it disappeared. I told her to never send cash but she did again this year. It disappeared somewhere in between the hotel's front desk and me. This time she did send it by registered mail and the clerk who signed for it admitted getting the mail but had no idea what happened to it. The management was equally unhelpful. Would that it was the only downer.

My room had been flooded while I was gone. The ceiling light fixture was awash in about a half gallon of water. Two computer monitors, a small TV and a printer had caught the brunt of the flood. The family bible was soaked but I kept it anyway while I threw the rest out. I'd lost books, cd's and stacks of notes. An assistant manager promised to come up and survey the damage. He didn't show. A maintenance man installed a couple of new lights in the ceiling fixture but it all stopped working an hour after he left.

Is someone or something trying to send me a message to get the hell out of here? How can I do that? Tndc, which runs the building came up with a new lease last month that a lawyer friend told me not to sign. It indemnified them from plague and pestilence just for starters. When I wouldn't sign, they told me that they were going to re-do the whole building, starting with my tier and I'd be getting a notice to move … somewhere else after the first of the year. Promised to get me a new place. More lies. When I went to the office to ask about the flood and the theft of my mail and the new lease, the new assistant (they change staff very, very rapidly in this place - 44 McAllister) … the new staff said they had not idea what I was talking about. They'd not heard of an impending remodel or anything of the like. I guess it was just pressure tactics to force me to sign their new lease.


http://www.fogcityjournal.com/news_in_brief/court_jesterings_070118.shtml

I know when I lived in one, every couple of months someone would decide to set a fire in the place, usually because they were pissed at the management.

And the sprinklers would go off in the ENTIRE BUILDING. And even if you were 3 floors away from a little trashcan fire, everything you have is ruined. And the place is damp and stinks.

[ January 23, 2007, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on January 23, 2007, 03:43 PM:
 
PSB wrote:
quote:
You wouldn't even know your own damn name if you'd been through what YOU have put me through
First off Craig, none of what I posted above was directed at you, though you likely feel that it was. And, just to be clear, I did not "do" anything to you, I do not even know you.

Second, I told Cagey I'd leave you alone, and that's what I plan to do. Keep baiting me and maybe I'll chime in accordingly, though I'd rather not. I would hope you will just mellow out and stop the toxic splurge of blame as seen in the last few posts, and...the "go to Hell" thing is just dumb, and does not win any friends, it only creates enemies. So, please knock it off - if you are able. Thanks.

p.s. FYI: If/when someone gives you suggestions, such as Planner, that are genuine and sincere, the worst thing you can do is throw it back in their face assuming they think you are dumb. The only dumb thing that I can see is assuming people are a-holes and not trying to help in the first place - and that's called paranoia, or prejudice, you decide.
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on January 23, 2007, 04:10 PM:
 
Cagey wrote:
quote:
It was stunning how many people got checks for addictions in the 70s and 80s.
Indeed. [Eek!]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 23, 2007, 04:23 PM:
 
Friends have told me that in the early 70's virtually any bizarre acid-related behavior that got you picked up by the cops ended up with you being offered food stamps and an SSI application in parts of California that had an influx of hippies. Supposedly Santa Barbara and Isla Vista were handing them out like candy. Do you remember when they stopped giving them out purely for addiction? I don't recall seeing that ever happen, but that may be just because we wouldn't help with an application like that.

And nice post to Craig [Smile]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 23, 2007, 11:28 PM:
 
quote:
Friends have told me that in the early 70's virtually any bizarre acid-related behavior that got you picked up by the cops ended up with you being offered food stamps and an SSI application in parts of California that had an influx of hippies.
True, and 60 MINUTES went undercover in the mid 80's. They watched several people cash their checks and spend their money on booze and drugs. And this was during those conservate (lets crack down on welfare cheats) Reagan years...
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 23, 2007, 11:34 PM:
 
Ken Kesey's very first electric kool-aid acid test was in the foothills above Soquel. Wanna bet that some of those freak outs were right here in Santa Cruz?

The 60 MINUTES episode took place right in California's Humboldt County...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 24, 2007, 07:00 AM:
 
I love the business owner's reaction to this:
Full Article

Taser blast ends standoff at downtown Santa Cruz restaurant
By Jennifer Squires
Sentinel staff writer
SANTA CRUZ — A six-hour police standoff came to a dramatic end Tuesday when a transient holed up inside a raw food cafe held scissors to his throat moments before police rushed into the restaurant and subdued him with a Taser.

The standoff at La Vie! on Front Street began just before 10 a.m. and prompted police to cordon off Front Street, from Laurel Street to Soquel Avenue, and shut a block of Cathcart Street. A dozen businesses were forced to close as officers hunkered behind police vehicles and aimed assault rifles at the cafe.
<snip>
Carter was examined for injuries at a local hospital and cleared, then taken to County Jail. Police don't comment on a suspect's mental health.

Police said their show of force Tuesday was out of concern for the man's well-being and worries that he might arm himself with knives or other kitchen equipment.

"Our concern is getting him out safely," Lt. Rick Martinez, head of police investigations, said several hours into the standoff.
<snip>
"I forgive the person already," said Gunawan, who plans to donate 15 percent of the cafe's profits for the next week to the National Alliance on Mental Health.

[ January 24, 2007, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 24, 2007, 08:40 AM:
 
I'm sure he'll do a great business next week.

I spent the entire day in the library.

Went to sleep on the sidewalk when the library closed. (My keyboard needs cleaning, half the keys don't work unless I hit them really hard.) Was woken up at 4 in the morning by someone who asked me if I had a blanket and sat down six inches from my face, refused to leave. And then when I screamed at them until they left, came back and kicked me.

I have a tape of them screaming "F-A-G" at me and threatening to kill me.

I haven't eaten since Sunday. When I got to Elm Street this morning it was too late, there was nothing left. The person in front of me got the last plate.

I've been wearing the same clothes 24 hours a day for a week, have no money to do laundry (I was planning to do it Monday). I haven't bathed in over a week and don't see the point.

I have water on my elbow. Several weeks ago I ground it on the concrete laying down. It was extremely painful for a few days. Then a huge blister came up on it.

My Medi-Cal was discontiuned because I didn't bother to fill out the forms and re-apply. Partly because I was so distraught I didn't care, and partly because there was absolutely no point in it. Not with a $467/month 'share of cost' or premium.

As for being nice...

...I was a nice person.

This is where it got me.
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on January 24, 2007, 09:14 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
I love the business owner's reaction to this:

"I forgive the person already," said Gunawan, who plans to donate 15 percent of the cafe's profits for the next week to the National Alliance on Mental Health.

If somebody trashed my place for no particular reason, I'd buy the guy a ticket to Singapore and a pack of gum. [Razz]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 24, 2007, 10:05 AM:
 
Yeah well, some people are nice and some people are meanies [Razz]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 24, 2007, 01:02 PM:
 
Ya, well Eric, what would you do if it was the Police?

They broke into my home, while I was there and trashed the place and stole my property.

And then they put ME in jail.

And not just me but my friend who REFUSED TO LEAVE (God bless him, even if he is an atheist.)

And instead of sympathy or help, I get thrown out in the street.

And the police didn't do it just once, they did it over and over and over.

So, what's the difference between me and this business owner?

I have nothing left.

That's IT.

On a related note, I must say it certainly looks like your Downtown Ordinances are working. Where I'm from it's considered common wisdom that you don't poke a wounded animal with a stick and then expect them to be nice.

[ January 24, 2007, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 24, 2007, 01:45 PM:
 
Ya know, it just occured to me...

I used to look at Watts (and other communities) and other riots and ask, "Why do they destroy their own community?" Why do the oppressed take it out on their own? Including the riot in San Francisco, which I saw on television in New Orleans just before I left (When I felt I needed to leave. One of the reasons I decided to go to San Francisco was because I felt at least they were doing 'something' there and not just taking it anymore.)

But of course, the answer is because they're afraid to target the real oppressor; the strong, powerful, and monied; the truly cruel, treacherous, and vindictive.

They don't do that until they have nothing left to lose, until they don't care what the consequences are.

And when it just now occured to me, it seemed so simple. So obvious. But I guess I never before truly 'felt' that feeling, of complete and total hopelessness. Of not caring (even hoping) you don't wake up in the morning.
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on January 24, 2007, 01:54 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
Yeah well, some people are nice and some people are meanies [Razz]

Don't get down on the guy, maybe he can only afford the 15%. [Wink]

Sorry PSB, I already pay their salaries, I'm not sending them on vacation as well.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 24, 2007, 02:10 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by ericr:
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
Yeah well, some people are nice and some people are meanies [Razz]

Don't get down on the guy, maybe he can only afford the 15%. [Wink]

That's it. Either you pay for lunch next time for everyone or I'm sending the speedo pic to the milk carton people and telling them you're lost.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 24, 2007, 03:07 PM:
 
quote:
If somebody trashed my place for no particular reason, I'd buy the guy a ticket to Singapore and a pack of gum.
Of course getting caught with that package of Juicy Fruit means that he gets whipped with a cane on the bare back and bottom a dozen times or more.

They even spank kids in Singapore for chewing gum and graffiti...
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on January 24, 2007, 03:58 PM:
 
parachute em in with a few bricks of pot if you REALLY dislike someone

you SWING for pot in these nice countries we support

and killing one---- over a joint--- is NOT a human rights issue

ask any GOP........

Gum gets ya whipped?????/I thought you had to toss it first

posession of gum- a whipping

sounds good-cant wait to move to a slave state

can you die in public? or does your family get fined for that??? [Wink]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 24, 2007, 04:58 PM:
 
It is fun to cast inhibitions away. especially in the anonymnity of a mob. That is why I believe in the 33rd word.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 24, 2007, 07:09 PM:
 
When I saw my account was overdraw I took a $100 advance against my next month's benefit to put it $1.02 in the positive. The next day it was $34 overdrawn due to an overdraft charge. Well, when I called them to ask them to forgive the charges as it was the overdraft charge that put it over, they told me I was $179 overdrawn.

Luckily, I got out of Elm Street in time to spend a few minutes at the library before it closes, and it looks like the taqueria didn't post my debits on the 18, 19, & 20 until the 2nd, after I already had one overdraft charge and had taken the advance to cover it.

So now I have 5 overdraft charges of $34, and a bunch of $5 charges.

If I still have a checking account and credit next month I won't have ANY money left.

I guess that will be the end of my website.

Unfortunately, I will probably continue on, somehow.

[ January 24, 2007, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on January 24, 2007, 10:22 PM:
 
quote:
One of the reasons I decided to go to San Francisco was because I felt at least they were doing 'something' there and not just taking it anymore.)
Why didn't your friends riot again on New Years eve? A gang of redneck punks beat the living $hi+ out of a "gay men's choir" from Yale University. They broke one guy's jaw. Several people went to the hospital ER.

The police have done little about these punks and their politically correct district attorney even less.

Two of San Francisco's state legislators are openly gay. Same goes for at least city supervisors and other government beauracrats. I gotta wonder just how they get away with this crap, in city where a bunch of right wing fundies do not have a monopoly on political powers???
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 25, 2007, 11:09 AM:
 
Power does that. A government powerful enough to do all the things for you that Frisco attempts is also strong enough to do it to you. Just as DiFi packs heat but denies the rest of us that pleasure, the Frisco power structure recognizes they can not do the good they want to do if they accept mortal restraints.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 26, 2007, 10:39 AM:
 
Well, I feel a little better, thanks to the generosity of a couple of you.

And, by the way, I did download the Sun office suite the other day. When I saw it was the Sun product I didn't hesitate. I recall downloading it several years ago when they first released it, hoping to increase their home pc market share, and/or compete with the windows platform.

I'll probably be screaming again in a few hours. I see we have rain coming.

The thing about rain and being homeless is that once you get wet you stay wet and never get dry. For hours and hours and hours you stay cold and wet.

For days.

And there's no way to get dry or stay dry.

You've made that impossible.

If you carry your stuff around in a pack or anything else, it will be soaked in a few hours. And even if you have a camp and a tent, and are careful, it still gets wet inside, and doesnt' dry out.

But the rangers generally pull the stakes and pop the poles before a rain, evidently to make sure everything gets soaked.

At least that's what happened when I tried it last year.

When I came back to my tent to find the stakes pulled, the poles popped, and the front unzipped. If they hadn't unzipped it everything might have still been dry, but there was a puddle of about 2 inches of water in the waterproof floor and eveyrthing was soaked.

I was thinking this morning I was born a crimninal - gay in Alabama - and been one ever since. A fugitive in my own land. All my life.

PS.

If you happen to be over at Harvey West during the rain, take a minute to look at the buildings. Notice how mean the design is? No eaves in a rain forest. Nowhere to get out of the rain, outside.

 -

[ January 26, 2007, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 27, 2007, 07:35 AM:
 
I used to hate my issue poncho. Anyone over 5'6 was wet from the knees down. Of course, there was a way you could smoke at night but that was poor compensation.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 28, 2007, 07:09 PM:
 
Today I was talking to someone about this and they mentioned another article came out, which I hadn't read, which mentioned the guy's camp had just been scuttled. Which really struck me because I had written this the next day:

quote:

But the rangers generally pull the stakes and pop the poles before a rain, evidently to make sure everything gets soaked.

At least that's what happened when I tried it last year.

When I came back to my tent to find the stakes pulled, the poles popped, and the front unzipped. If they hadn't unzipped it everything might have still been dry, but there was a puddle of about 2 inches of water in the waterproof floor and eveyrthing was soaked.


without knowing that was attribued to be part of the cause.

Well, La Vie! and everyone else will forget about it in a day or two, everyone except the perpetrator/victim.

Violence begets violence.

I sit here thinking I would never do anything like that, but I can absolutely understand what drove him to it.

But we don't get to hear about what would drive someone to do something like that, more than a cast-away comment about a campsite being 'displaced'.

Who's life was destroyed here?

And why?

Until you begin to care about that I do not see this abating. You must dearly love people that have nothing left to lose and nothing left to live for, you have created so very many

quote:

Police said they still don't know why Carter allegedly broke into the cafe. During an interview with police he reportedly expressed frustration that he had recently been displaced from his camp site. Although police reported Carter showed objective signs of intoxication, they declined to comment on whether or not he was drunk when taken into custody pending the results of a blood alcohol test.

That's all we get to know about the real victim here, except that his bail is $27,000 and it will probably be years before he gets out of jail, with a resentment the size of Texas.

I'm still not clear what this has to do with 'mental health'. I don't see how contributing to some non-profit is going to help anyone.

Myself, I've been told a suspended sentence is the best I can expect on the two tickets I have, and if I get another ticket they will try me on all three.

Well, thanks John Barisone but you've jerked me around enough and more than enough and you may (most sincerely) GO TO HELL.

I am NOT a criminal, I have committed NO crime, and you're going to put me in jail eventually no matter what I do, so - once again - GO TO HELL.

And that goes for Mike Rotkin and Emily Reily and all the rest of you god damned posers.

I've been abused and mistreated and screwed over in my life, but nothing like this.

[ January 28, 2007, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 28, 2007, 07:12 PM:
 
Hey. PSB, did you get counted today? Heard they were doing a multi-county homeless count.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on January 28, 2007, 07:22 PM:
 
No I didn't get counted. Are you talking about the probation police? I saw them out in front of Elm Street yesterday.

I did get a shower and my laundry done, and that took most of the day.

And by the way, I do appreciate that you address me like a human being instead of a thing, and seem to care.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 29, 2007, 07:23 AM:
 
I remember how it felt when the shower unit finally came around. We got new undies and I think they burned the old.
I still think you need to work up your book/movie/sitcom and see what sticks to the wall.
Dehumanizing tends to result in oversimplification, which leads to politician type "solutions". Wasn't Prokustus the guy who had the bed?
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 30, 2007, 06:49 AM:
 
quote:
I guess that will be the end of my website.

Unfortunately, I will probably continue on, somehow.

quote:
I was thinking this morning I was born a crimninal - gay in Alabama - and been one ever since. A fugitive in my own land. All my life.

It is SO hard not to comment on this crap. But I promised to try... [Frown]
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on January 30, 2007, 07:08 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ditto:
quote:
I guess that will be the end of my website.

Unfortunately, I will probably continue on, somehow.

quote:
I was thinking this morning I was born a crimninal - gay in Alabama - and been one ever since. A fugitive in my own land. All my life.

It is SO hard not to comment on this crap. But I promised to try... [Frown]

I'm with you on this one Ditto. Better left unsaid.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on January 30, 2007, 07:38 AM:
 
PSB it is with difficulty that I read your posts.I wish that you would just take responsibility for your situation.You were on this path long ago,well before you became homeless.I really believe that you need to look at where you are and what your place in this society is.You seem to have this belief that the world did all of these things to you out of some personal vendetta.I feel that you have made your decisions and now have to live with the results.I still have compassion for your situation but it is with increasing difficulty that I keep that attitude.You bash the system that has helped far more people than it has hurt.Please stop doing that.Just because the system has rules that you cannot abide by does not give you the right to tell everyone to "GO TO HELL"With that said I do wish you well.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on January 30, 2007, 07:39 AM:
 
Oh yeah...ditto and pdskee...good job on not posting,I could not help myself.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 30, 2007, 07:53 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by flyfisher:
You were on this path long ago,well before you became homeless.

How do you know this? Are you a soothsayer? Fatalist?
quote:
You bash the system that has helped far more people than it has hurt.Please stop doing that.
I hope you are similarly lecturing Grover Norquist.
quote:
Just because the system has rules that you cannot abide by does not give you the right to tell everyone to "GO TO HELL"
Doesn't our Constitutional system of government protect his right to do that?
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on January 30, 2007, 08:11 AM:
 
LW I am no soothsayer,just commenting on PSBs previous posts about his past.They showed a history that put him out of the societal "norm"Not everyone wants to fit the "norm" but when you make that decision(and it is your right)you just have to live with the results and take responsibility for where you are now.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 30, 2007, 08:20 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by flyfisher:
LW I am no soothsayer,just commenting on PSBs previous posts about his past.They showed a history that put him out of the societal "norm"Not everyone wants to fit the "norm" but when you make that decision(and it is your right)you just have to live with the results and take responsibility for where you are now.

Oh goodie. Another motivational seminar about responsibility for PSB. I'm sure he'll cherish your thoughtful lecture. So you figure being born gay in Alabama in 1950 was a decision PSB made because he didn't want to fit the "norm"? And how about those norms in Alabama in that era? They were swell, heh?
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on January 30, 2007, 08:41 AM:
 
LW I know I am not doing PSB any good but I feel better.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 30, 2007, 08:43 AM:
 
Granted about out of the norm. We have a right to association, but when we extend that right to abusing those whth whom we disagree, we are less justified. A community can justify sanitary requirements, but esthetic requirements that unduy impact are less hard to approve.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 30, 2007, 09:02 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by flyfisher:
LW I know I am not doing PSB any good but I feel better.

Understood, thanks. Not dissimilar, I suppose, to PSB venting about agencies which he feels have treated him unfairly.

btw, I'm sorry I interrupted your car repair discussion. I thought you were a clone.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 30, 2007, 10:05 AM:
 
quote:
So you figure being born gay in Alabama in 1950 was a decision PSB made because he didn't want to fit the "norm"? And how about those norms in Alabama in that era? They were swell, heh?

Uh, What about this era? Or are you taking the typical liberal stance that once a victim always a victim. Are you trying to tell me there are no successful gay persons in the world? It seems like the 'black' excuse is being made here, boot on the neck, disenfranchised, etc. The fact hes gay is not an excuse for his unwillingness to attempt to succeed at something besides making you and Cagey cry.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on January 30, 2007, 10:10 AM:
 
 -
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on January 30, 2007, 10:32 AM:
 
What's your excuse for being an ignorant sadistic prick, Ditto? If it's a good one, maybe I'll shed a tear for you, too.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on January 30, 2007, 11:02 AM:
 
Wow- they let you call ditto a prick. Kewl...
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on January 30, 2007, 11:37 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
quote:
Originally posted by flyfisher:
You were on this path long ago,well before you became homeless.

How do you know this? Are you a soothsayer?
I assume FF just read PSB's web site: http://www.palmspringsbum.org/aboutme.html.

It's all documented there.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on January 30, 2007, 05:28 PM:
 
Gee Lturd, nice response. Obviously very well thought out and meaningful. Chock-full of non-facts and opinion as per your standard. I doubt you have a tear left in you after reading PSB's diatribe so I wont ask you to make the effort.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on January 30, 2007, 09:00 PM:
 
As I have noted before, there is a public health interest in sanitation aside from the public interest in beating people into compliance with the norm. Would I have prefered that PSB marry his high school sweetheart, take a civil service job and raise 2.35 children? Of course, because I am comfortable with that sort of person. Would I prefer a world that, like a Russian circumcision lopped off everythiong that hung over a #10 can? No. Partly because some think I hang over the edge. I suspect that many of the forumites here are outriders in one aspect or another.
It's going to be cold tonight. Stay dry and warm, all of you. And have a snort.
 
Posted by zeitgeber (Member # 2239) on January 31, 2007, 03:45 PM:
 
2
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 02, 2007, 10:25 PM:
 
Well, an old acquaintance sent me an email the first of the week saying he would come down this weekend and get a room.

He got here, bought me lunch, and left me as he went to meet a friend of his.

With my bag in his car.

It's now 10:30 pm, and I've been trying to call since 7, when he called but we got disconnected.

So, I will be out in the cold with nothing but my computer.

All night.

And unable to fall asleep, because if I do my computer will be gone when I wake up.

Not that I could sleep in the cold anyway.

Story of my life.

It truly would be kinder to just shoot me.

[ February 02, 2007, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 03, 2007, 04:40 AM:
 
I'm sorry that happened Craig - but it must have been nice to see him, anyway. Have you been able to reach him yet?
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on February 03, 2007, 07:41 AM:
 
So that's the Ditto troll doll that somebody gave you for Christmas?
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 03, 2007, 07:43 AM:
 
quote:
It truly would be kinder to just shoot me.

What, no screeching from our left leaning audience about PSB's advocation of shooting homeless persons? That it would be far easier to murder a troll instead of provide them with free handouts at taxpayer expense? That it would be more humane?

Come on now Lturd surely this offends you. Oh wait, PSB isnt pregnant. We can let this slide.

How about you pawn your laptop and get some warm clothes? Ah yes. But if you did you wouldnt have such easy access to sympathy.

Dang, there I go again attacking poor defenseless Craig. Craig, whats it like having everyone think youre defenseless as a kitten? Is this the goal you set out to accomplish? To have everyone pitty you and treat you like a 5 year old that simply doesnt know any better? Is it really that much easier to be a victim 24-7 than man up and take responsibility for your actions?

Yeah Kid, thats me trolling along the bottom of the San Lorenzo scraping up used condoms, protest fliers, needles, Longs shopping carts and what this?? YOU.

[ February 03, 2007, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: Ditto ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 03, 2007, 09:20 AM:
 
Dead or alive, I'm more of a man than you could ever dream of being.

I cried all night in the freezing cold. I have been awake more than twenty-four hours. And I will get to spend the entire day enduring your hostile stares, or your studied indifference.

And consider myself lucky to find a place to lie down for a little while, and wake up with everything I went to sleep with.

Well, my friend called in the middle of this. Seems he got a new cell-phone, it went dead, and he had to drive back to San Rafael to charge it, and supposedly is leaving San Rafael (after driving here and back yesterday) to bring my bag back.

[ February 03, 2007, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 03, 2007, 11:19 AM:
 
No, a man would have bucked up and went to a shelter my tax dollars provide in order to stay warm and healthy. Not cry like a little B!tch because one CHOSE to spend the night in the cold. Staying up for 24 hours huh? wow, im impressed. And if this clown is a friend of yours, why no offer of a room and a hot meal?

ANSWER: Because its more fun to spew pathetic ramblings of self induced misery and 'medicine' to the bleeding hearts on this forum.
 
Posted by Bikerattorney (Member # 1940) on February 03, 2007, 11:43 AM:
 
Ditto, I just want to say that I enjoy your verbal battles with CaptainKangaroo1953 and
L(ame)ward. You continually come out on top.

Memo to PSB: Get off the reefer, move to someplace affordable and get a job.
 
Posted by TSDuncombe (Member # 2197) on February 03, 2007, 12:41 PM:
 
He who will not work, neither shall he eat.
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on February 03, 2007, 02:24 PM:
 
ya gotta earn to burn. [Wink] [Big Grin]

plant pot-not bombs! [Wink]

gotta have a job-to fill the "cob" [Razz] [Wink] [Big Grin]
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on February 03, 2007, 02:34 PM:
 
I like the public works idea..

room board n pot for cleaning up all the graffiti and trash in this area..

lite duty-

unless a TRUE disability like being blind-public works for anyone stuck in a bind......would be referred to jobtraining-or running a business if they cant pass a piss test.(like graffit removal-and heck-parades of graveyard shift people-cleaning the streets n graffiti-would cut way down on crime

think thats fair enuff-and being mean-you finish the shift before getting the reefer.

shelter bed-decent food-and a little reefer.for a days work

ya dont work- ya dont smoke- (REAL disabilites exempt)
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 03, 2007, 07:40 PM:
 
unless a TRUE disability

In other words, if you can't see it, all the time, they're 'untrue'?

What you all seem to miss is in MY CASE money is not the issue. I get more in social security disabity than most of them.

The issue is denial of housing, services, and so forth.

They require a drug test for their housing and services, and consider ALL cannabis use to be ADDICTION.

The issue is NOT whether or not I can or should work. The Federal Government concluded over ten years ago that I could not work, and that I was 100% disabled. And I certainly haven't gotten any better in the past ten years, not with being raided and jailed and robbed and contiually ridiculed and called a liar and a fraud.

And I do not receive any government subisdy. I do not get SSI. And what I do get is INSURANCE, not welfare.

Now, I've said that 100 times already. And you damn well know it.

The fact is that that travesty that you call homeless services does require the disabled to 'work', which is why you've got so many cluttering up your streets.

That travesty you call homeless services is essentially a prison camp for able bodied junkies, who go round and round the recovery merry-go-round.

And by the way, as I was walking past this afternoon about the time they serve dinner, it was amazing to see everyone snorting lines in the cars parked just outside. One after another after another.

It's a full moon and the eagle s-h-i-t. Which probably explains the abnormal frequency of sirens tonight. And it will be particularly sketchy tomorrow and monday, when sleep-deprivation sets in and they're still up and can't sleep.

[ February 03, 2007, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 03, 2007, 09:13 PM:
 
quote:
They require a drug test for their housing and services, and consider ALL cannabis use to be ADDICTION.


The fact you wont stop smokin bud in order to live 'indoors' and lead a healthy lifestyle kinda supports their belief, no? If money isnt the object why do you need 'their' services? Go get your own place and smoke up son!

quote:
The Federal Government concluded over ten years ago that I could not work, and that I was 100% disabled. And I certainly haven't gotten any better in the past ten years, not with being raided and jailed and robbed and contiually ridiculed and called a liar and a fraud.

The VA conclude over 2 years ago that my WIFE is 70% disabled yet she works two jobs. Whats your problem? You can obvioulsy use a computer, type, walk, do research etc. I always find it interesting that all your stuff has been stolen 'x' amount of times but noone wants your laptop.

quote:
The fact is that that travesty that you call homeless services does require the disabled to 'work'
If money is no object why must you rely on their services? I mean, if you dont like the way HS operates why keep whining about the standards you have to meet in order to reap the benefits of their FREE services that you whine about?

quote:
will be particularly sketchy tomorrow and monday, when sleep-deprivation sets in and they're still up and can't sleep.

Use your money, get a motel room and a *****, have her dress up in mens clothes, smoke a blunt and go nite nite.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 03, 2007, 09:18 PM:
 
Go get your own place and smoke up son!

Been there. Done that. Got the web page.

[ February 03, 2007, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on February 04, 2007, 12:56 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
...The issue is NOT whether or not I can or should work. The Federal Government concluded over ten years ago that I could not work, and that I was 100% disabled...

Of course, the Federal Government also concluded that you should go to jail if you smoke pot, and that medical marijuana is invalid, so I wouldn't put 100% faith in the correctness of its conclusions.

[ February 04, 2007, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: ericr ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 04, 2007, 06:15 AM:
 
Craig, nothing I'm about to say has anything to do with you, but Eric's point made me wonder about something in general. (I'm not the least bit qualified to know if you're 100% disabled or not.)

Greaves, are you around? You probably know this and I can't remember. Do people on SSDI for mental health disabilities ever need to be recertified to keep their benefits? If they do, how does that work?

It seems to me that someone's level of disability can vary over time. When I was first diagnosed it was assumed that I wouldn't be able work again and 3 different doctors felt that I was 100% disabled and wanted me to file for SSDI. Luckily I found one that disagreed, and anticonvulsants for epilepsy worked so well for me that I was back at work 2 months later. If I tried to apply for disability now they'd laugh me out of the office. It would seem odd to me if social security didn't relook at the situation every few years at least.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 04, 2007, 08:36 AM:
 
Amazing how you spent all that time and effort on a webpage designed to get you some pity points and show how poor ol' Craig was wronged by the system yet you REFUSE to get a job.

You may not be on welfare buddy, but whos paying into the pot for your insurance?
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on February 04, 2007, 09:06 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ditto:
You may not be on welfare buddy, but whos paying into the pot for your insurance?

The insurance Craig refers to is Social Security Disability Insurance. So the answer to your question is: we all do.
 
Posted by Sol (Member # 1130) on February 04, 2007, 09:20 AM:
 
PSB,
I read a little of your "plight" in San Bernadino and have to ask, did you let the landlord know, you intended to grow pot for what ever reason? If that inlaw unit was attached to the house btw, you are not a tenant but a room mate and do not have any rights and can be kicked to the curb without notice. Have you considered just finding a way south of the border and living a little simpler in a place like San Filipe.
I was real clear with my tenant that no drugs, period or the pavement will be coming up real quick. I'm not real interested in losing my property and I'm sure your former landlord had similar feelings but I'm sure there's more to her side than what you've posted.
If I didn't have the means to live here, I would not and certainly would not cry a river over all you have gone through because someone has done you wrong...
I came back from VietNam with Malaria and a foot disease from hell but I go on every day without complaint nor try to get disability from the VA.
Cowboy up and be a man....
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 04, 2007, 11:56 AM:
 
I read a little of your "plight" in San Bernadino and have to ask, did you let the landlord know, you intended to grow pot for what ever reason?

Evidently you read very little.

www.palmspringsbum.org

And as for your insults about being a man, if you were standing here I'd spit in your face. Is that man enough for you?

I love the way you *******s spit on people and kick them when they're destitute and at the end of their rope. I truly would spit in your face if you were standing in front of me.

You remind me of my father, who used to beat me and insult me when I was having cataleptic depressions as a child. He would make me pull my pants down, and expose my butt, and beat me with a leather belt. And if I cried he'd beat me more and continue to beat me screaming that he wouldn't stop as long as I cried.

Well, you see the result of that Ditto.

I truly pity your children.

Greaves should know about disability reviews, evidently they tried to get social security to review mine, even though I'd had one a couple of years ago. That's when I lost my Medi-Cal. When I went into River Street Shelter.

[ February 04, 2007, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by swag (Member # 2245) on February 04, 2007, 12:33 PM:
 
We are taking over this forum. You will have to cut through about 200 people in a week or so.
 
Posted by Sol (Member # 1130) on February 04, 2007, 02:00 PM:
 
PBS, you soiled your own nest, you fix it, no one else will in this life or the next. Apparently you still have childhood issues and your problems are the result of everyone but you. I had brutal alcoholic parents too but guess what, I came out just fine. You seem to feel the world owes you an apology and a living. Two words, grow up and that means facing what confronts you in the mirror every morning and move on in life. Apparently you don't want to face your own life's lessons.
As for spitting on me, well that's about what I expect from a 3 year old not an adult, so I'm really not going to throw another dog on your campfire and dignify that with a response.
I don't think you can grasp the concept of grow up and be a man based on your reaction to those who've made similar comments. You seem to want to battle everyone save those who stroke your ego.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 04, 2007, 02:44 PM:
 
More bigoted crap.

I'm not the one that burst into my home, raided me, stole my property, terrorized me, threw me in jail, drug me throught the courts, and stole everything I had.

But I'm not surprised you would blame me for that.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 04, 2007, 02:50 PM:
 
We are taking over this forum. You will have to cut through about 200 people in a week or so

I accuse them of yellow journalism and they get bought by Hearst. Welcome to my life.  -
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 04, 2007, 02:57 PM:
 
Read this SOL: http://www.palmspringsbum.org/millard/transcript-17feb04-3of3.html

The really ****ty thing about marijuana prohibition is it allows people like you to harass, and rob, and jail, and terrorize people like me, and steal everything we have, and then put us in jail, and your damn recovery 'programs', which are even worse.

But, in my mind anyway, you aren't any worse than the people that stand by and do nothing, while you do it in front of them.

If I were God you would rot in Hell for all eternity.

[ February 04, 2007, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 04, 2007, 08:07 PM:
 
quote:
The insurance Craig refers to is Social Security Disability Insurance. So the answer to your question is: we all do.
Exactley. Yet he sits on his *** and b!tches and moans that we arent doing enough to support his drug habit and freeloading lifestyle. It says alot about PSB's lack of character and what he thinks is manly with his 'spit' remark. It would probally be the first time in his life he 'spit' instead of swallowed.

Police: Confession in homeless slay case

Over scrap metal. [Roll Eyes]

[ February 04, 2007, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Ditto ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 04, 2007, 08:12 PM:
 
Well, you'll all by happy to know that I just tried to take an advance and was refused. So I called the bank, and they told me since my balance had been so negative I would have to maintain a postive balance for 3 months to qualify.

This mean I will not be able to cover the storage, interest, and web hosting charges coming up on my credit card. That I will not be able to maintain a postive balance, and that I will be lucky to have cash through next week.

You know, I feared it would be the homeless and poor that would pick me clean, but it wasn't them. It wasn't the people that live in the shadows and pick through your garbage.

Well, happy birthday to me.

And may you ALL ROT IN HELL.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 04, 2007, 08:26 PM:
 
quote:
This mean I will not be able to cover the storage, interest, and web hosting charges coming up on my credit card.
LMFAO. You gotta be the only homeless guy on the planet worrying how your going to cover your webspace fees.

quote:
That I will not be able to maintain a postive balance, and that I will be lucky to have cash through next week.

Tough Sh!t. Imagine if you werent a leech on societys azz and contributed to your insurance fund through meaningful employment. But yet again, that would require a teeny tiny bit of effort on your part. And as we've all seen from your ramblings, its far easier to b!tch, cry in the rain, moan and 'oh wo is me' us to death than put forth that effort.
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on February 05, 2007, 08:18 AM:
 
quote:
Do people on SSDI for mental health disabilities ever need to be recertified to keep their benefits? If they do, how does that work?

With SSI your case is reviewed routinely, mainly because it is an entitlement, and not a benefit. The reviews are usually every 2-3 years, or as needed.

SSDI you can only receive if you worked AT LEAST ten quarters in the preceeding ten years - not a very high bar to meet, IMHO. Of course, you also have to meet the definition of "disability," which can change depending on who is working on your case, or who the Administrative Law Judge is. You CAN continue to work while on SSDI, you just lose dollar for dollar after a certain ammount. Eventually, if you continue to demonstrate you can work, you will be strongly encouraged to do that - unless you cannot work gainfully overtime.

quote:
Greaves should know about disability reviews, evidently they tried to get social security to review mine, even though I'd had one a couple of years ago. That's when I lost my Medi-Cal. When I went into River Street Shelter.

OK, so now I was responsible for you losing your benefits? Either you are an idiot, an antagonist, or just plain Paranoid. Whatever. Listen Bud, you can lose your Medicaid for all kinds of reasons, like not submitting the regular paperwork needed to keep it updated - oh, but that would mean it was your fault. Just a thought. Also, if you get SSDI you may actually MAKE TOO MUCH to qualify for medicaid - that is why, if you have SSDI, you have Medicare.

Hey PSB: When you point the finger of Blame, you have THREE pointing back at yourself. You dig.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 05, 2007, 08:56 AM:
 
My vote is for: IDIOT
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 09:12 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by greaves:
SSDI you can only receive if you worked AT LEAST ten quarters in the preceeding ten years - not a very high bar to meet, IMHO. Of course, you also have to meet the definition of "disability," which can change depending on who is working on your case, or who the Administrative Law Judge is. You CAN continue to work while on SSDI, you just lose dollar for dollar after a certain ammount. Eventually, if you continue to demonstrate you can work, you will be strongly encouraged to do that - unless you cannot work gainfully overtime.

Thanks for the explanation, greaves. I'm sure the doctors that kept shoving disability forms in my face probably thought that they were doing me a favor instead of scaring the sh!t out of me by saying I could never work again, but you'd think they'd put a little more effort into making that decision before offering me support at the taxpayer's expense for the rest of my life. Oh well - it's probably better from their perspective to err on the side of caution in these things when all they have to go on is what they see at the moment.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on February 05, 2007, 10:13 AM:
 
quote:
When I was first diagnosed it was assumed that I wouldn't be able work again and 3 different doctors felt that I was 100% disabled and wanted me to file for SSDI. Luckily I found one that disagreed, and anticonvulsants for epilepsy worked so well for me that I was back at work 2 months later.
And yet another example of why we cannot always bet the farm on a diagnosis made by a federal beauracrat.

Saturday night was a blast. A bunch of us shot the BS in a chatroom, while feasting on 15 hours of good music. Got my hands on the set from that Pelosi fundraiser in DC a few weeks ago...
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on February 05, 2007, 10:40 AM:
 
quote:
Got my hands on the set from that Pelosi fundraiser in DC a few weeks ago...
LINK PLEASE.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on February 05, 2007, 10:47 AM:
 
Its up on Nugs.net. Otherwise you'll have to search the e-tree bitorrent site for it. Will be there sooner or later...
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 11:03 AM:
 
OK, so now I was responsible for you losing your benefits? Either you are an idiot, an antagonist, or just plain Paranoid. Whatever. Listen Bud, you can lose your Medicaid for all kinds of reasons, like not submitting the regular paperwork needed to keep it updated

A prime example validating everything I've said about that place and you people.

What really happened is that, even though I had renewed my Medi-Cal a couple of months previous, I received in the mail a notice that my disability was up for review (even though it had been reviewed a couple of years ago). This was coincident with my stay at River Street Shelter. When I got the notice in the mail, weeks after it was sent because I only pick up my mail every several weeks and I'd been through hell - when I got the notice I called Social Security praying they hadn't discontinued my benefit and the one I'd just spent was my last. Well, a week or so later I got a notice the review was 'in error'.

However, somehow in the re-instatemnt process the had to re-evaluate my medi-cal (and why the medi-cal was discontinued I don't know, but it was in error also) and when they reinstated my medi-cal the share of cost, which had been $0/month, went to $467/month.

Thanks very much Santa Cruz Homeless Services.

Since then, I haven't bothered to spend my time filling out the paper work and renewing it. Why bother?

I will certainly never use it.

Particularly now.

Seems River Street Shelter assumed I was there to apply for disability - SSI. Oooops.

But it's MY fault.

I was sitting on a bench, about to take my morning medication, when a social worker walked up to me and asked me if I'd like a list of programs.

So if you heard someone scream, "You can take your god damned programs and shove them up your *** . 10,000 spaces for junkies in this town and not one for medical marijuana patients." this morning, it was me.

I think I said a few other things as well, but I can't remember exactly what.

[ February 05, 2007, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 11:16 AM:
 
OK, so now I was responsible for you losing your benefits?

I can think of only one person that would say that.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 11:16 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
[QUOTE]And yet another example of why we cannot always bet the farm on a diagnosis made by a federal beauracrat.

I have private insurance, went to private doctors and I have no idea what sort of federal bureaucrat you think was involved, but it has nothing to do with that.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 11:18 AM:
 
And I was unemployable and destitute for years before I would accept that I could no longer work and applied for disability. Losing everything, slowly, is devastating.

It occured to me yesterday that there is a T-shirt I would like to wear, a slogan, a coloscheme, a design. If I had money I'd make up a batch. It's the kind of thing that could catch on big, and at the very least, I could easily sell a batch on the street, enough to establish a trademark, and cover the cost.

But that's not what you mean by work, is it?

So far this month my website has generated 21,936 hits, 12,149 views, and 2,136 visitors - 432 visitors per day.

Last month it generated 152,855 hits, 97,435 page views, and 14,191 visitors - 394 vistors per day.

Nor is that, is it?

No, you want me to pick up your trash.

The fact is, at the rate I'm going my site is going to get as many hits as that sexual offender site I saw in the news story the other day about all the humongous traffic it was getting.

[ February 05, 2007, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on February 05, 2007, 11:33 AM:
 
quote:
I can think of only one person that would say that.
Paranoid. [Eek!]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 05, 2007, 12:03 PM:
 
I dont care what you do as long as youre generating a taxable income. It would be nice to see one of 'you people' putting into the system what youre sucking out of it. I too have a favorite slogan, 'Work hard, millions on welfare are depending on you'.

As for picking up my trash. I use my garbage can for its intended purpose. Unlike 'you people' that piss and sh!t anywhere and everywhere, that throw your trash everywhere but in a trash bin. Unlike 'you people' that have the gall to berate the people and services that offer you FREE assistance because they dont bow down to Craigypoo's whims. It would be nice to hear one of 'you people' just say 'thanx' once in awhile to the working men and women of this country that fund freeloaders like you via their hard earned taxdollars. You who dont put a thin dime in the pot that you swill from have NO right to chastise those of us who do.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on February 05, 2007, 12:05 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
So far this month my website has generated 21,936 hits, 12,149 views, and 2,136 visitors - 432 visitors per day.

Last month it generated 152,855 hits, 97,435 page views, and 14,191 visitors - 394 vistors per day.

Two words: Google Adsense.

You won't make a fortune, but if you are really generating that kind of traffic then it should at least pay your hosting bills.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 12:06 PM:
 
quote:
I can think of only one person that would say that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paranoid.

Dude, you are a total fruitloop.

There is nothing paranoid about concluding only one person could have your knowledge of the nuts and bolts of the concentration camp and pharse that statement in exactly that way.

It's deductive reasoning.

[ February 05, 2007, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 12:08 PM:
 
quote:
Two words: Google Adsense.

You won't make a fortune, but if you are really generating that kind of traffic then it should at least pay your hosting bills.

Homer, why don't you try having a clue what you're talking about before you go offering advice.

You look really stupid, patronizing, and.. well, like those folks over at the Concentration Camp to me.

And in case you still don't have a clue what I'm talking about. CLICK ON MY SITE and actually LOOK at one of my pages.

Then you might figure it out.

Maybe.

[ February 05, 2007, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on February 05, 2007, 12:17 PM:
 
Sorry Pal. I thought I was being helpful. I won't make that mistake again.

Enjoy wallowing in you own filth loser. I'm done.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 05, 2007, 12:28 PM:
 
Just went to your forum loser. Only 1 user and 1 guest on. All last posts were by you. LOL. Its really taking off....
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on February 05, 2007, 12:46 PM:
 
quote:
It's deductive reasoning.

No, it's paranoia. I have not worked on The Corner since 2001, and have absolutely NOTHING to do with Homeless Services offered there.

However, that said, I did work around there from about 1994-2001 and have a great understanding of the hard work people do there everyday to help those that need it. Many are my friends. So, when you berate them, you, in essence, berate ALL Social Workers, including me - and, I resent that.

Hey Craig, you know what? I could be earning six figures EASILY right now, instead, I chose to be a Social Worker and work for peanuts helping others that had a life like mine growing up...in a town I cannot afford to live in. Of course, you would never take into consideration what kind of background a person may have, you just assume everyone that does not support your "medicine" is against you. Guess what? They are not (the ones that would be are in Recovery from addiction, so it goes). In fact, MOST of the Social Workers I know would not mind AT ALL if you used your medicine in your own home, for whatever reason, medicinal, or not. I think Meth is a far bigger issue than your pot, dude.

p.s. I choose NOT to share my sh!tty childhood and background because I do not define my life by what occured in the past, only what CAN occur in my future if I put my mind to it. I have come along way in my life, and I do not plan on slowing down any time soon.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 03:13 PM:
 
Just went to your forum loser. Only 1 user and 1 guest on. All last posts were by you. LOL. Its really taking off...

 -

code:
      Most Requested Directories

Incomplete
Directoy Hits Requests Visitors Bandwidth(KB)
1 http://www.palmspringsbum.org/ genealogy/ 2,840 0 739 26,433
2 http://www.palmspringsbum.org/ tree/ 1,143 0 462 9,259
3 http://www.palmspringsbum.org/ bbs/ 7,048 0 275 70,729


Time range: 1/31/2007 04:08:06 - 2/4/2007 21:34:05

While this is for just the past 5 days, it is representative, except that before my last revision to my genealogy, the relative traffic on the \tree and \genealogy directories was reversed, with \tree generating the most traffic.

[ February 05, 2007, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 03:29 PM:
 
Sorry Pal. I thought I was being helpful. I won't make that mistake again.

Enjoy wallowing in you own filth loser. I'm done.


You're a real hoot Homer.

You come up with this brilliant idea (something I did years ago), and get all upset when I don't even thank you for it and suggest you might have shown the tinniest bit of respect, common courtesy, and lack of prejudice and checked to see if maybe I wasn't a total idiot and might, just might, have Adsense ads on my site?

Especially since I mentioned something about that on here, probably several times?

As I said, you're about as helpful as those idiots over at Homeless Services that can't do anything but blame me because they screwed me over royally.

God save me from do-gooders like Homer who's idea of being helpful is not only to sit around and think of things for me to do, but also gets all upset when I don't co them and pretend they're god's gift to the town-trodden (and down-trodden), who just need someone to sit around and tell them what to do.

 -

[ February 05, 2007, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 03:40 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
...and suggest you might have shown the tinniest bit of respect, common courtesy, and lack of prejudice ...

You've got to be kidding me. Is the irony here completely escaping you? Is your hypocrisy meter not going full tilt into red?

Thank you Miss Manners [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 03:40 PM:
 
No, it's paranoia. I have not worked on The Corner since 2001, and have absolutely NOTHING to do with Homeless Services offered there.

However, that said, I did work around there from about 1994-2001 and have a great understanding of the hard work people do there everyday to help those that need it. Many are my friends. So, when you berate them, you, in essence, berate ALL Social Workers, including me - and, I resent that.


Well I resent a whole lot of things, and they sure as Hell didn't help me. And you can try to explain it away as my paranoia but the fact is those people totally screwed me over, they did it consciously, and I believe maliciously. And I do truly despise and abhor them. And I'm not the only one. Trust me. I'm hardly the only one.

But you're saints doing god's work in the salt mines of the unwashed...

...gag me with a spoon.

I will say this, even though I think your prejudice is something that would inspire awe in the Deep South and your intestinal fortitude is that of a quisling...

...if you haven't worked that corner since 2001 and you think I'm talking about you then YOU'RE the one that's paranoid and YOU'RE the one that's defensive.

Sheesh. Would you people please find another goat to skape? I'm all skaped out.

[ February 05, 2007, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 03:51 PM:
 
You've got to be kidding me. Is the irony here completely escaping you? Is your hypocrisy meter not going full tilt into red?

Those who can't teach. And or preach.

And I think it is the epitome of hypocrisy to think one is being helpful by suggesting something that 2 seconds investigation would have shown them had already been done.

I don't need some idiot that thinks I'm a befuddled idiot to sit around thinking of things for me to do. Especially things I did years ago.

THAT is RUDE. INSULTING. and a whole bunch of other crap that it isn't worth my time to list.

And I am sick and tired of co-ing these bozos that think giving you a list of programs is help.

Especially the ones that won't take 2 seconds to check, and there by ad insult to injury by informing you repeatedly that while they haven't bother to even take 2 seconds to look at your site, they're sure you could never have thought of putting adsense ads on your site, much less done it.

Sorry, I've swallowed enough crap like that to gag a maggot.

I guess I was raised on a completely different planet. Where I come from we accord people the most basic common courtesy, at least until they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don't deserve it.

[ February 05, 2007, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 03:56 PM:
 
So what have you done for them lately?
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on February 05, 2007, 04:06 PM:
 
Suggestion:
quote:
Two words: Google Adsense.
You won't make a fortune, but if you are really generating that kind of traffic then it should at least pay your hosting bills.

Response:
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Homer, why don't you try having a clue what you're talking about before you go offering advice.
You look really stupid, patronizing, and.. well, like those folks over at the Concentration Camp to me.
And in case you still don't have a clue what I'm talking about. CLICK ON MY SITE and actually LOOK at one of my pages.
Then you might figure it out.
Maybe.

Alternative response:
"Thanks, but I'm already doing that."

I'll leave it to the reader to decide which is more appropriate.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 04:16 PM:
 
As I said, I'm sick of co-ing you rude, patronizing *******s.

It's more like, "Well I never bothered to look at your site, but you really should..."

"I've never heard you play, but I'm sure you must be lousy and I know the perfect teacher for you..."

"I've never seen you dance, and I never bothered to use those free tickets you gave me, but I'm sure you must not have a clue what you're doing and I read an article in some magazine about dancing once and I think you should..."

"...after all you're homeless. And everyone knows homeless people don't know anything about anything. That's why they're homeless.

That's why god made social workers, to tell those poor, miserable, stupid souls what's good for them and what to do."

[ February 05, 2007, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 04:20 PM:
 
Homer's read most of your blog (which you would have known had you read more closely and paid more attention to HIS posts), and no one here has said any of those other things to you so it's irrelevent to bring them up as an excuse for why you're being so rude.

My real question was how come you think people should care more about you than you do about them, or be nicer to you than you are to them?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 04:23 PM:
 
I do not conspiciously indulge in contempt prior to investigation.

The ads are on my blog, for the love of god, so that's contemptable blindness after investigation.

I give up.

I'm going to sit in front of silly hall and smoke myself silly.

[ February 05, 2007, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 04:27 PM:
 
Good idea. Maybe it will improve your manners.
 
Posted by Bikerattorney (Member # 1940) on February 05, 2007, 04:33 PM:
 
Ditto wrote:
quote:
As for picking up my trash. I use my garbage can for its intended purpose. Unlike 'you people' that piss and sh!t anywhere and everywhere, that throw your trash everywhere but in a trash bin. Unlike 'you people' that have the gall to berate the people and services that offer you FREE assistance because they dont bow down to Craigypoo's whims. It would be nice to hear one of 'you people' just say 'thanx' once in awhile to the working men and women of this country that fund freeloaders like you via their hard earned taxdollars. You who dont put a thin dime in the pot that you swill from have NO right to chastise those of us who do.
Right on! It would also be nice to get the corporate freeloaders (Haliburton?) off the taxpayers backs as well.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 04:38 PM:
 
It would be nice to hear one of 'you people' just say 'thanx' once in awhile to the working men and women of this country that fund freeloaders like you via their hard earned taxdollars.

You have a lot of ****ing gall!!!

Steal everything I have, and then accues me of being a free loader. Make it impossible for me to do anything, and accuse me of being a free loader.

In a just world, you would rot in Hell for all eternity.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 04:48 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
I do not conspiciously indulge in contempt prior to investigation.

You know nothing about anyone on this forum, yet regularly show contempt for the people posting and reading it. From what you've told me, you were raised to have manners. Your mother must be horrified if she's reading this.

Why would anyone be more concerned and polite to you than you are to them? There are a lot of things forced on people by poverty, but being abusive isn't one of them.

(And you don't need to go using the moron below as an excuse either. There are times when you just have to avert your eyes just like when someone is picking their nose or masturbating in the middle of a crowd, because they obviously don't know any better.)

[ February 05, 2007, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 05, 2007, 05:05 PM:
 
quote:

Steal everything I have, and then accues me of being a free loader. Make it impossible for me to do anything, and accuse me of being a free loader.

Ive never met you let alone stolen anything from you. You on the other hand have never met me yet piss away my tax dollars, in effect, STEALING from ME.

BTW. Werent you supposed to kill yourself? Hows that comming along? Im assuming it required WORK and EFFORT hence you havent done it yet.

ROT IN HELL!!!!

Pffft. Why not shack up with your boyfriend or has he had enough of your pathetic rants and bullsh!t as well?
 
Posted by Ol' Al (Member # 1813) on February 05, 2007, 05:25 PM:
 
As the JATO kicks in...
I just got here, and all the chairs are taken.

Something is going to blow up. Pressure/time will tell.

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 06:16 PM:
 
Why would anyone be more concerned and polite to you than you are to them? There are a lot of things forced on people by poverty, but being abusive isn't one of them.

How dare you!

After all the months and years of abuse I've taken here politely.

HOW DARE YOU!!!

Now, in five days my storage will be overdue, and they will put the last of my possession up for auction. Including about 100 or more (I never even got to count them, much less look at them) family photographs going back a hundred years or more, many of which I haven't even scanned yet. And one, in particular, of my gggrandfather Allred and family.

And my computer, and documents, and mementos.

HOW DARE YOU!!!

After all the suffering I've endured to save money to get a place and or get out of here, only to have your homeless 'services' pull the rug out from under me at Thanksgiving, and you accuse me of being rude.

HOW DARE YOU!!!

HOw dare you.

How dare....rot in hell.

And it was YOU and YOUR homeless services that not only refused to give me a last chance, but sabotaged me when they saw I was going to make my own last chance.

ROT IN HELL.

ROT IN HELL.

ROT IN HELL.

ROT IN HELL.

ROT IN HELL.

ROT IN HELL.

[ February 05, 2007, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on February 05, 2007, 06:21 PM:
 
P{SB -
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 06:25 PM:
 
Craig, if what all this is about is that you're stressing out about your storage locker, chances are if you had just said that someone here would offer to help you (at least through me if not directly). I'm not sure what you thought screaming and yelling at everyone was going to accomplish. Only codependent family members give in to self-indulgent temper tantrums, and generally even they stop that once the kid is over 3. If you can't get a grip on yourself, now might be a good time to walk away from the keyboard and stop insulting people who have nothing to do with your problems and turning them into people that want nothing to do with helping you find solutions.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on February 05, 2007, 06:43 PM:
 
PSB - WRITE THE FORNICATING BOOK!!!
Then buy one of the mansions up on West Cliff drive and pitch yor tent beside your swimming pool. Out of your second million, send me a bottle of 24 year old single malt and a signed book.
Your life may be all screwed, but I suspect that you could hit 500 on Amazon, or only God knows where on internet publishing.
Now just stay alive until you do it!
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 06:46 PM:
 
No that's NOT all it's about.

It's about 10,000 units of transitional housing and NOT ONE for medical marijuana patients.

It's about being called selfish and a free-loader and a fraud, while the real free-loaders, the real frauds and the real selfish are sitting in those 10,000 units of 'transitional housing'.

It's about being so very very tired. About not having gotten in decent rest in weeks and months and years.

And it's about a whole bunch of other stuff.

Like losing my credit, while being ridiculed for daring to be homeless and have anything at all.

It's about the unbelievable inhumanity of this bastion of Compassion - and about a City council that sits around thinking of ways to make the destitute, the sick, the aged, and the dying so miserable and hopeless they'll (hopefully leave), and the whole town sitting around in dumbfounded amazement when violence breaks out all over.

It's about hubris, and rudeness, and downright cruelty.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on February 05, 2007, 06:47 PM:
 
From Eric Berne:

----------

Wooden Leg

Theme: What I do, is not my fault (can't you see I have a wooden leg?).
Purpose: Getting away with irresponsibility.
Roles: Mainly Victim (V).

Wooden leg is a simple construct in which V(ictim) cultivates a handicap, real or imagined, and proceeds to play it for all it's worth... fending off responsibility; saying, "what can you expect of me [a man with a wooden leg]?"

In intensive play, V(ictim) may shift to P(ersecutor), attempting to instill guilt in anyone with the callous audacity not to recognize and show proper respect for the limitations imposed by such a handicap....

Payoffs - provides a front to cover malingering and a tool with which to browbeat others out of sympathy strokes.

Antithesis - the covert level must be exposed by blowing the whistle on the bogus handicaps or by refusing to allow real ones to be pawned off as a catch all excuse for non-participation in life. The response to the "what can you expect from me?" line is "I don't expect anything from you. What do you expect of yourself?"

--------

Why Don't You . . . Yes, but . . . - (WDYB)

Theme (R) I'll make you grateful for my help / (V) go ahead and try.
Purpose Capturing the center of attention and vindication of a "They don't know any more than I do" premise, thereby assuaging the Child's feelings of not-OK'ness.
Roles Victim (V), Rescuers (R)

WDYB is the original game archetype, the first game uncovered and studied by Berne. V(ictim) sets up the game by presenting a problem and, ostensibly, looking for Adult solutions... Every suggestion that an R(escuer) offers V is then rejected with, "yes, but . . . ," until no one wants to play anymore.

V, of course, doesn't want the advice, only the attention, and if it goes on long enough for the switch and the cross up to occur, R may switch to P(ersecutor), attacking V for his indecisiveness, or for the game itself.

Payoffs - mainly the garnering of recognition/sympathy strokes. There may be a certain sly satisfaction at making everyone jump through his psychological hoops.

Antithesis - the inverse of this game, as seen from R's point of view, is Called I'm Only Trying to Help You (ITHY), a common Rescue game.

The stopper for WDYB lies in the refusal by R to begin ITHY. Rather than offering pointless advice, R should throw the ball back to V, asking what V will do about his problem.

The first, "yes, but" should be met with a crossed transaction, something like: "that's unfortunate," followed by silence.

[ February 05, 2007, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Mahakala ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 05, 2007, 06:48 PM:
 
quote:
No that's NOT all it's about.
But freaking out on people who have no power to change any of it and alienating them only makes it worse.

[ February 05, 2007, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 05, 2007, 06:55 PM:
 
Mak, you hack.

Take your god damned wooden leg and shove it up your *** sideways. And I hope it has splinters.

If anyone's beating people up with their wooden leg here it's those god damned junkies that whine they'll go out and shoot up heroin if there's a medical marijuana patient in the house.

And the shills that call themselves social workers that support them.

Oh, and ROT IN HELL.

[ February 05, 2007, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on February 05, 2007, 07:11 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Mak, you hack.

Yes?

quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
ROT IN HELL.

Done.

So how DO you plan to save your possessions?
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on February 05, 2007, 09:09 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
As I said, I'm sick of co-ing you rude, patronizing *******s.

Oh. I didn't realize that screaming "rot in hell" at cops (and anyone else who pisses you off) is the sign of a well adjusted individual capable of taking care of themselves. Sorry, my mistake.

Honestly Craig, if I didn't know better I'd be convinced that PSB is the creation of a DEA propaganda campaign bent on proving than medical marijuana advocates are just a bunch of self-absorbed, anti-social children with senses of entitlement befitting medieval European royalty.

BTW, I found this in the Wikipedia entry for Martyr complex:
quote:

Self-victimization

A martyr complex can also be a tendency to feel that one is being singled out for persecution. It is often characterized by the belief that one's persecution is the result of exceptional integrity.

Does that sound like anyone you know?

[ February 05, 2007, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: homer ]
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on February 05, 2007, 09:14 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ditto:
BTW. Werent you supposed to ... ?

That's really over the line dit. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[ February 05, 2007, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: homer ]
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on February 05, 2007, 10:22 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
From Eric Berne: ...

Interesting stuff, Mak. I've seen similar before, but don't recall where. Time to check the library.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on February 06, 2007, 12:10 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by ericr:
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
From Eric Berne: ...

Interesting stuff, Mak. I've seen similar before, but don't recall where. Time to check the library.
Eric -- thanks!

Eric Berne, books: Games People Play and Beyond Games And Scripts (or something like that). The quotes above are boildowns from the first title, which is one of the most hilarious books I've ever read. Berne nails daily human folly in ways no one I know of ever has before. I think if you just thumb through it, you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 06, 2007, 05:51 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by Ditto:
BTW. Werent you supposed to ... ?

That's really over the line dit. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I'm really glad that someone else noticed that and had the integrity to say something about it. It would have been really depressing to wake up to more swooning over what a 'real man' he is for advocating beating pregnant women, endless gay jokes and taunting a mentally ill person to commit suicide. This stuff makes Robot look socially compassionate.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on February 06, 2007, 09:28 AM:
 
PSB...Most of us have tried in one way or another to have compassion for you and your plight,however you have crossed the line with me at least,I am done with your not being AT ALL willing to take ANY responsibilty for where you are in life.YOU made this happen and NO ONE else!DEAL WITH IT!
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 06, 2007, 11:24 AM:
 
quote:
taunting a mentally ill person to commit suicide
Just trying to hold him to his word.

quote:
Take your god damned wooden leg and shove it up your *** sideways. And I hope it has splinters.


Speaking from personal experience? Does that kind of thing get 'you people' off?

quote:
up to more swooning over what a 'real man' he is for advocating beating pregnant women, endless gay jokes and taunting a mentally ill person to commit suicide
The loser formerly known as PSB is the one here who has claimed what a 'man' he is. At the same time speaking of taking it in the azz and spitting on people.

[ February 06, 2007, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Ditto ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on February 06, 2007, 11:40 AM:
 
Confrontation can produce truth, even if unpleasant for those participating. Cruelty produces nothing of value to anyone.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on February 06, 2007, 12:03 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ditto:
quote:
taunting a mentally ill person to commit suicide
Just trying to hold him to his word.
Stop digging dit. It only makes you look more shameful.

[ February 06, 2007, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: homer ]
 
Posted by CoramDeo (Member # 1441) on February 06, 2007, 12:03 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
Confrontation can produce truth, even if unpleasant for those participating. Cruelty produces nothing of value to anyone.

Very well put, Mahakala, in my opinion. Speaking the truth without love isn't much different than speaking flattery with hate. And if two wrongs don't make a right, three, four or five thousand aren't likely to, either.

Heather
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 06, 2007, 12:07 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ditto:
Does that kind of thing get 'you people' off?

quote:
speaking of taking it in the azz
*snickers

Usually I have to pay people to set up my smartass remarks this well, but I couldn't have scripted this one as perfectly if I tried.

I wonder if your buddy would suck up to Hitler to look like he gets along with someone? I wouldn't believe this unless I saw it with my own eyes. Ironic doesn't begin to describe it.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 06, 2007, 12:30 PM:
 
Oh. I didn't realize that screaming "rot in hell" at cops (and anyone else who pisses you off) is the sign of a well adjusted individual capable of taking care of themselves. Sorry, my mistake.

I have been homeless for two years, thanks to cops. I would be maladjusted if I didn't scream at them.

It is truly amazing the psychological hoops you people will go through to justify treating human beings like garbage.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 06, 2007, 12:33 PM:
 
Well, you should be proud.

You've completely destroyed me.

Oh, but I'm a fraud and just playing some psyhological game.

Honestly Craig, if I didn't know better I'd be convinced that PSB is the creation of a DEA propaganda campaign bent on proving than medical marijuana advocates are just a bunch of self-absorbed, anti-social children with senses of entitlement befitting medieval European royalty.

That Viet Nam vet medical marijuana patient that used to sit on the street near LuLu's, he told me to leave or die. But I had nowhere to go.

Please, finish me off quickly, I can't take anymore.

[ February 06, 2007, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 06, 2007, 12:53 PM:
 
Craig, if you're really feeling that way and your meds aren't enough to stop it, you know as well as I do that you should ask a cop to take you to Dominican and just chill out there till it passes. And if you don't mean it you should probably stop saying it before a cop or concerned person hears you and you don't get the choice of going to Dominican or not.

I know you'll scream 'go to hell' at me for saying that, but I don't care. If this isn't just drama, get someone to help you.
 
Posted by skip99 (Member # 2248) on February 06, 2007, 01:34 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
... they use every method immaginable to prevent any more homes from being built. That makes the rents go up again and again.

Tell it, bro. Here we have Skip Spitzer of SCAN, and the usual NIMBY "activists," at it again.

First thing they demand when meeting with the owners is that the low-income portion of the project -- the granny units -- be eliminated, and then that the moderate-income portion -- the townhouses -- be sliced away, so that only the high-income portion -- the single family homes -- remain.

Then when they get THAT, they demand that most or all of the remaining portion be eliminated too, so as to keep a monopoly on their own homes, which of course adds to the overall shortage and raises the price of both owned units and, since many of them get rented, raises rents as well.

This is what passes as "progressive policy" among the SCAN hypocrites. Thank goodness voters have begun, in the last few elections, to see through their two-faced grasping selfishness.

Someone directed me to this thread. A few things you might want to know:

1. The community in the area is not by and large opposed to affordable housing on the land. We've in fact asked the City to help us get half the land developed as afordable senior housing (true, it would be better if the community were open to affordable housing without restriction) and the half that blocks views of arana gulch left open as open space for the new units and park users. The City hasn't been responsive to this, but it's still something we're pursuing. It just might be the combo that works, combining trust money for open space with investment by an affordable housing developer.

2. We object to the project in part because it's all luxury housing. We've gotten actual comps from realtors. The townhomes would have gone for about $800,000. The houses would be about $1.5 million (one at > $2 million) and granny units on properties like that often aren't even used for housing and if rented the prices are exclusive. There's not enough public benefit from luxury housing for all the impact the project would have.

3. There are other good reasons to object to the project and you ought to know what they are before passing judgement. For example the City would be giving away part of a public easement that will make it impossible to run a bike-way to the harbor if the B'way/Brommer bike path gets shot down in court.

4. There's so little buildable land that prioritizing housing regardless of retail value is going to do almost nothing to relieve housing costs. We have to do things like insist that the new general plan prevents extreme "density bonuses" for developers in exchange for so few affordable units (which aren't even really affordable). If developers want rules bent, they should have to designate far more affordable units, which should be truly affordable. (Personally, I'm in favor of simply outlawing owning second homes--justified on scarcity of a critical resource, as was done with petroleum in the 70s.) Anyway, promoting housing regardless of the details is not a compassionate or useful position--it's a position developers take to advance their lucrative investments.

Skip
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 06, 2007, 02:18 PM:
 
Hi Skip - welcome to the forum [Smile]

It's really nice to see someone from the community step forward to set the record straight here and to speak for themselves when they've been misrepresented. I wish it happened more often, and that people here were held accountable to the community members that they attribute nefarious motives to in public. It's also nice to see someone involved in the issue who doesn't try to portray neighborhood opposition to new luxury homes as racist NIMBYism. I think your perspective will be much appreciated by a lot of us.

[ February 06, 2007, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on February 06, 2007, 02:39 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
The community in the area is not by and large opposed to affordable housing on the land.

Yes, I've heard that for 25 years, every time that a project with at-and-below-median income housing is included in a project. Funny how no one ever opposes affordable housing and yet they're always opposing it, isn't it?

quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
granny units on properties like that often aren't even used for housing and if rented the prices are exclusive.

Granny units' rent levels are controlled by the limited size of the units, and unless they're gold-plated inside and out, nearly universally rent at monthly costs affordable to those of median, low and even the top of very low income. So that's simply not true.

quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
the City would be giving away part of a public easement that will make it impossible to run a bike-way to the harbor if the B'way/Brommer bike path gets shot down in court.

That sounds like a valid concern, and I'm glad you're bringing it up as part of the negotiations.

quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
There's so little buildable land that prioritizing housing regardless of retail value is going to do almost nothing to relieve housing costs.

Yes, I know that that's the boilerplate claim made for a quarter century now, but it's half wrrong. With ownership housing, it's true. With rental housing, external pressure is so low in this landlocked, relatively isolated exurban market that every new group of units does, indeed, have significant effect on rent levels. A 3.5% difference in vacancy rate held rents to CPI for six years. Please learn some local housing economics before repeating this damaging half-truth yet again.

quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
We have to do things like insist that the new general plan prevents extreme "density bonuses" for developers

You have no idea what you're talking about. Minimum levels of density bonus are dictated by state law, were just strengthened this last year by the legislature, and no amount of "insisting" will change that.

quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
in exchange for so few affordable units (which aren't even really affordable).

That is an overt misrepresentation. Affordability is relative to each community's income profile, and units designated affordable ARE within specific ranges of income, as measured quarterly by HUD and state agencies, and as defined by state and federal law. The fact that YOU misrepresent housing units "not relaly affordable" does not change the fact that ALL units, for example which are "affordable to median income" ARE, in fact, affordable to those in the 80%-120% income range in the community.

quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
If developers want rules bent, they should have to designate far more affordable units, which should be truly affordable.

You haven't a clue as to what you're talking about, as no "rules" are "bent" in density bonuses, nor, apparently, have you bothered to pay attention to what's actually happened to local housing production when "far more affordable units" have been demanded. Hint: Watsonville demanded 25%, and housing production for all levels, including the very low income, shut down entirely.

quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
Anyway, promoting housing regardless of the details is not a compassionate or useful position

No one's said that it is. Thanks, though, for advancing a typical cheap straw man you can then knock down.

quote:
Originally posted by skip99:
--it's a position developers take to advance their lucrative investments.

Ah, yes -- the boilerplate rhetoric. I was WONDERING when we were going to get to the accusation that everyone who's pro-housing is under the sway of "developers." And, sure enough, here it is.

Let's, though, get away from your half-truth rhetoric above, and back to this specific project:

If you want to fight its intense nature, fine, make it more like what's immediately around it, which IS, admittedly, single-story homes (unlike on the other side of the park, which are more like the ones proposed), keep public access to a good solid path for future use, and keep the feel of overall open space as much as is practical, you'll get no argument from me.

But DON'T try to sell me on the argument that eliminating all of the less-than-top-income housing from the project is somehow pro-affordable housing. We've been hearing that for nearly 30 years now, seen the results, and it doesn't wash either for me or for the rest of the community.

[ February 06, 2007, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Mahakala ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 06, 2007, 02:43 PM:
 
Craig, if you're really feeling that way and your meds aren't enough to stop it

The best I can figure, saying "finish me off quickly" was what prompted that and I don't see how that warrants a trip to Dominican or anything else.

And the fact is, you (and I don't mean you personally) have completely destroyed me. I asked one thing of Santa Cruz, and that was for my medicine to be treated like medicine. And was told "SCREW YOU!".

For that I have been accused of everything under the sun, and accused of behaving like European Royalty, evidently because I have a pedigree.

And the fact is, you have destroyed me. Financially, emotionally, and every other way I can think of. I came here seeking refuge/sanctuary, and you threw me in the trash with the junkies and...

...oh, never mind.

[ February 06, 2007, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 06, 2007, 02:52 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
[QB]The best I can figure, saying "finish me off quickly" was what prompted that and I don't see how that warrants a trip to Dominican or anything else.

I'm glad it doesn't, but it could be misconstrued that way. If I said it my housemates would have my butt in the hospital before I could finish the sentence. People can get the wrong idea sometimes and overreact and nothing we say makes any difference at that point.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on February 06, 2007, 02:52 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
It's really nice to see someone from the community step forward to set the record straight...

Ah! I was unaware that you knew enough about this project that you'd know who had "set the record straight." When did THAT happen?

quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
I wish it happened more often, and that people here were held accountable to the community members that they attribute nefarious motives to in public.

Me too. Shall we start with your sliming the most recently elected SC councilmember with your projecting her voting on a nonexistent resolution so you should paint here a hypocrite without proof? Or, as usual with the compulsively vicous, do your rules of conduct only apply to OTHER people?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 06, 2007, 02:52 PM:
 
And as for Mak's amusing little "tough love means never having to say you're sorry" story about the wooden leg, to use his analogy:

In my case you (people) are taking away my prosthetic and then trying to bully me into walking, calling me a loser and a fraud because I don't run the Bay to Breakers on one leg (just to please you), while you beat me with my wooden leg.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 06, 2007, 02:53 PM:
 
Mak, you really should get some help soon. You're practically frothing at the mouth on a constant basis.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on February 06, 2007, 03:19 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by CoramDeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
Confrontation can produce truth, even if unpleasant for those participating. Cruelty produces nothing of value to anyone.

Very well put, Mahakala, in my opinion. Speaking the truth without love isn't much different than speaking flattery with hate.
Thanks, Heather. Good to have you back, by the way. The forum is always far more pleasant when you're around. [Wink]

The other thing I was thinking last night, but didn't write, was how powerful emotions subsume objects as they radiate in all directions, encompassing and coloring them all -- and therefore how self-defeating it is to wish bad things for others... and that led to thinking about how withholding love or appreciation for others... well, I think you know what I mean. [Wink]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 06, 2007, 03:22 PM:
 
There were half a dozen urgent messages in my email today from my mother. I only looked at one:

 -

Well, why should I bother? I mean really? You're just going to harass me to death (or into jail), slowly. Please, just finish me off quickly.

And if anyone uses that as an excuse to further torment and torture me by inciting the police to handcuff me and take me to Dominican, which WILL NOT allow me to use my medicine, then, most sincerely...

MAY YOU ROT IN HELL!

And that goes for Baskin, and your city council, DOUBLE.

[ February 06, 2007, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Ol' Al (Member # 1813) on February 06, 2007, 03:27 PM:
 
Skippy, you lost me with this:
"(Personally, I'm in favor of simply outlawing owning second homes--justified on scarcity of a critical resource, as was done with petroleum in the 70s.)"
I have no idea of what you refer to WRT petroleum in the 70's, vis-a-vis owning second homes. That's the kind of idiocy that makes SCAN more and more irrelevant.

Is it that nobody was allowed to own more than one oil well?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 06, 2007, 03:28 PM:
 
I'm not threatening you, Craig - I just don't think you should risk saying stuff like that. If you decide not to ignore it and want me to tell you how to deal with the court thing, email me. Robert knows how also, and you can use the letter about the suspended sentence.
 
Posted by lookwithin (Member # 1906) on February 06, 2007, 03:35 PM:
 
Skip, I'm with Al on this, at least as far as being bewildered by the " no one owning more than one house"concept goes.
Are we dealing with the evil puppets "Landlord" and "Developer" again, or do you actually have a fresh idea?
And, welcome to the site. [Smile]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on February 06, 2007, 03:59 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by lookwithin:
Skip, I'm with Al on this, at least as far as being bewildered by the " no one owning more than one house"concept goes.

If I may kinda defend Skip for a moment, it's a well-meaning idea that's grown out of the movement to open up ownership by removing the mortgage interest rate deduction on any more than one home, so that some can't hoard while others go without.

Unfortunately, like most ideas advanced by those without education in basic housing economics, it's got a hidden catch: a huge proportion of second homes serve as rentals for decades or more prior to their owners retiring and moving into them.

And since rentals are in far more short supply, nationally, than ownership homes, such a prohibition would remove millions of rentals from the market all at once, sending rents soaring and most likely sending the numbers of homeless skyrocketing.

It is, in short, another false solution. Which is why untrained members of community groups, regardless of what nice people they may be, should NOT be making housing policy.

[ February 06, 2007, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Mahakala ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 06, 2007, 03:59 PM:
 
quote:
And the fact is, you (and I don't mean you personally) have completely destroyed me. I asked one thing of Santa Cruz, and that was for my medicine to be treated like medicine. And was told "SCREW YOU!".


then WHY are you still HERE? If you dont like it...then leave. Trust me on this, noone is going to give a rats *** if you should go away. Noone asked you to come here and leech off the system or scream at our citizens that you percieve as guilty of screwing you over.

Your 'kill me' remarks are pathetic IMO. It is a weak cry for sympathy, like youre the only one that has problems. If you truly are considering offing yourself I suggest you suck up whats left of your pride and ask for help.
 
Posted by Ol' Al (Member # 1813) on February 06, 2007, 04:07 PM:
 
Still waiting for somebody to help me out on this:
"(...as was done with petroleum in the 70s.)"
 
Posted by Ol' Al (Member # 1813) on February 06, 2007, 05:43 PM:
 
I know this guy, let's call him Nick. I met him 20 years ago, as we both walked our Dobermans, just before sunrise. Nick was living out of a pretty new RV. Previous to that arrangement, he lived with his Aunt and Uncle, in a big house on WestCliff Drive.

But 'Nam PTSD caught up with him in the early eighties, and the family bought him the RV and said, "Hit the road, Nick". He didn't get far from home. After all, he's a native Cruzer. So he parked around. But what he didn't do was get help. He didn't trust the VA. Part of the gov't that got him so effed up in the first place.

So things got worse. He made a mistake that got his dog killed. The RV fell into dis-repair, then non operational status. Nick has been on the mean streets every since; about 15 years.

I see him, now and again. At the last two Armed Forces Day Parades, Nick came in out of the bush, and we did the shake and bake. I saw him at the cop-shop a few months ago. Not in trouble, just looking for lost gear. Sometimes I see him on the Mall.

I always ask about his health, and how's he doing, overall. He says he's good, got a safe place to sleep, started using the VA system. I can tell he's getting more frequent showers. I always trade hugs and slide him a Jackson, and admonish him to get food with it. I think he does, though I have no way of knowing. He doesn't seem alcoholic to me.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on February 06, 2007, 06:09 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
I asked one thing of Santa Cruz, and that was for my medicine to be treated like medicine.

That's not going to happen and the sooner you come to terms with that fact, the better off you will be. Please show me anywhere in the U.S. that gives transitional housing to someone who insists they are entitled to smoke >1 oz of pot per week. (crickets chirping...)

quote:

For that I have been accused of everything under the sun, and accused of behaving like European Royalty, evidently because I have a pedigree.

It's got nothing to do with your ancestors, it is about your behavior. You demand that Santa Cruz provide you with accommodations regardless of your own behavior as some sort of birthright. You demand that people provide you with a level of civility and respect that you are unwilling to provide to others. Heck, you even demand that you be provided with your drug of choice for free (compassion bags) or at least at a discounted price.

Look, if smoking a bunch of pot everyday helped you to behave rationally, to hold down a job, to treat people with civility and respect, then I'd be the first to say that marijuana is a miracle drug for treating your symptoms. But that's not what it does for you. You are evidently unable to hold down a job, unable to treat others with civility or respect, unable to behave rationally. You act like a textbook drug addict. Is it any wonder that you are treated like one?

Get over yourself. You aren't the center of the universe. Most of us figure that out before our 5th birthday. With luck you might get it before your 55th.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 06, 2007, 06:41 PM:
 
Thats pretty much what I said. With tact [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on February 06, 2007, 07:44 PM:
 
At least partly he asks to be let alone.
I need to take 12 pills a day. If someone decided that I should not, it might piss me off.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 06, 2007, 08:00 PM:
 
I'm not threatening you, Craig - I just don't think you should risk saying stuff like that. If you decide not to ignore it and want me to tell you how to deal with the court thing, email me.

What's the point?

That's not going to happen and the sooner you come to terms with that fact, the better off you will be. Please show me anywhere in the U.S. that gives transitional housing to someone who insists they are entitled to smoke >1 oz of pot per week.

Your attempt to inflict emotional pain and incite me was successfull. I had to get up and smoke a cigarette, and a bowl, and wasn't going to reply. But I changed my mind, because even though I'm sick of pointing out the straw men that you set up so you can knock them down, I will do it one more time.

As for transitional housing in the United States that accepts medical marijuana patients, lets start with Vanderbilt University, which is in a state that doesn't even have a medical marijuana law.

And then there's this teeny tiny town in the teeny tiny state of Vermont.

There's a few others, but I think you get the point. And what does whether anyone else has done it or not have do to with anything. The question is, is it the RIGHT thing to do. Besides, I thought this was California. Are you gonna wait for Alabama to lead?

I accepted the fact that I wasn't going to get transitional housing. I resolved myself to spend my entire life on the church groups until I had enough money to do something with. And I bought a computer so I could do something besides sit around and twiddle my thumbs from 3pm till 5am. And they BANNED me from the chruch groups. They told me, point blank, that until I went to the Armory, which was sure to trigger an episode sooner or later AND THEY DAMN WELL KNEW IT, I couldn't go on the church groups, and they didn't care how much money I'd spent in the motels and how many days it had been since I'd slept on the church groups.

And when they saw I had managed (somehow) to cope with not being able to sleep legally, they banned me completely so I couldn't even use the lockers or showers or toilets.

I was actually able to 'save' $100-200 a month until they did that.

It's got nothing to do with your ancestors, it is about your behavior. You demand that Santa Cruz provide you with accommodations regardless of your own behavior as some sort of birthright. You demand that people provide you with a level of civility and respect that you are unwilling to provide to others. Heck, you even demand that you be provided with your drug of choice for free (compassion bags) or at least at a discounted price.

I spent all my money, and went into debt buying medicine, while dealers on the street were getting it for free. All I did was ask that I be treated like any other homeless/disabled/medical patient on a fixed disability income.

And I had to rant and scream to achieve that.

And your 'text book' addicts are all in those 10,000 SLEs, saying anything you want to hear as long as you'll let them suck your tit.

I bet you'd make Valerie Coral have seizures and scream at her to get a job and call her a fraud if she (Heaven forbid) ever found herself in your evil little clutches, where you have the gall to call me a text-book addict and you're giving out methadone for PAIN.

And I'm HOMELESS YOU STUPID *****. How dare you sit there and sneer that my medicine isn't working and criticize my behavior.

How dare you. And you have the gall to critize me.

I have been robbed and harassed for TEN YEARS. When't the last time you had some agency of the government divert your telephone calls?

[ February 06, 2007, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on February 06, 2007, 08:10 PM:
 
Craig. You keep using the term "you people" when you post about your various problems in SC.

I would just like you to know that I, for one, take offense to that use on this particular forum. If you were posting to the Santa Cruz Sentinel letters to the editor or addressing the city council, it would be one thing. However, what you have here is a reasonably captive audience of perhaps a dozen regular posters and more than a few casual readers. I don't know that any of them have anything to do with your plight. People on this forum have listened to your stories, offered help, given you money when you were down and complimented you quite highly on your writing skills. Some have indeed said some mean spirited things to you. However, none of us are the "you people" that you so vehemently hate.

If you can't tone that down a bit, perhaps you should find another place to hang out and rant.

Oh, and please, don't give me your usual go to hell rant. I have been there a couple of times and decided to do better with my life.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 06, 2007, 08:42 PM:
 
. You keep using the term "you people" when you post about your various problems in SC.

I would just like you to know that I, for one, take offense to that use on this particular forum.


Best I can recall, you are as much a part of the problem as anyone.

It is ten years since Proposition 215 has been passed, and I'm not the first homeless medical marijuana patient in town. If you had a blanket policy of excluding all poor people, that would be one thing. But the issue is beyond denying me services. My efforts to help myself were sabotaged, because I was a medical marijuana patient.

I've really hesitated to bring Valerie Corral and WAMM into this, not because I owe them anything - because I certainly do not. Not a single one of them...

...but my episodes aren't all that different than seizures. While there may be some warning it can be very brief. Stress brings them on, and it's very easy to stress me into panic attacks and hypomania.

Even if I could work, to sit there and rant about getting a job in my circumstances is idiotic, cruel, and, well, all I can think of is cruel and sadistic.

The rent on my storage was due the 1st, I have a 10-day grace period and I forgot what happens after that, but eventually my things will be sold at some auction, for maybe $25.

I have wanted to sit down with those photos and enter them into my genealogy for so many years now I can't remember. It was before I was raided in Morongo Valley.

I told my mother not to send them to me, but that I would like scans...

...but YOU are responsible. You all are. You created this situation, not me. It is the expression of your common will. If you don't like that, well it sounds like a personal problem to me and I think you should do something about it.

I would prefer that not be harassing me to death, but you can beat and bully me all you like, I've had it.

Twelve pills a day you say? Well, imagine if you found something that not only did everything those twelve pills did, but made you feel good, and cleared up your skin, and made you forget you had carpal tunnel AND arthiritis, and enabled you to control your bowels even after Motezuma's revenge, if only you could medicate first thing waking up, rather than bending and stooping and compressing your gut repeatedly packing everything up because the REAL people are waking up and you can't be seen.

And it didn't destroy your kidneys, or your liver, or your heart. In fact, it caused the brain to regenerate, and the entire nervous system. And it kept your skin looking young and pliant, and so wrinkle-free you could easily pass for ten years younger.

And it enabled you, even though you slept on the sidewalk and were being assualted on all sides as the last remnants of your life were being ripped away, somehow it enabled you to keep on. It enabled you to keep on even though you had a history of debilitating depression, and such a history that you could plot them on a graph a see patterns and predict (in a general way) the course.

And you didn't feel like you were only operating at 10%. That is the worst thing. I spoke to Lee the other day. You may remember him. Short little guy with a tail. Plays a guitar. Told me he's from here, family goes back generations. Bi-polar. He was screaming down the street the other month.

We had a long talk, and when I mentioned that stuff made me feel I was only 10% he didn't need me to say anymore, he knew exactly what I meant. He mentioned haldol.

But I digress. Imagine it. It's the story Willie told me. And I believe it.

It's my story too.

[ February 06, 2007, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on February 06, 2007, 09:06 PM:
 
quote:
...but YOU are responsible. You all are. You created this situation, not me. It is the expression of your common will. If you don't like that, well it sounds like a personal problem to me and I think you should do something about it.

Nope Craig. Not gonna work. I am not responsible. I have a clear conscience. I don't even live in or vote on issues pertaining to SC. I just work there. You created the situation that got you into this mess and the sooner you can come terms with it the better. You came to Santa Cruz, I didn't bring you there. You are right in one respect though. It IS a personal problem. Not mine, but yours and you are absolutely right YOU need to do something about it.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 06, 2007, 09:20 PM:
 
In other words you don't give a ****.

Look, I figured that out a long time ago.
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on February 06, 2007, 09:35 PM:
 
quote:
In other words you don't give a ****.


On the contrary. I wouldn't be wasting my time in any dialogue with you if I didn't. However, I am enough of a realist to know that I don't have the ability to help at this point. Sure, I could send you funds, I could see if I could find someone that would take you in, I could probably do a lot of things. But I would be unwilling to do any of those things unless or until you come to some realizations. From what I have read, most if not all of the problems that you are dealing with in regards to Santa Cruz are from your own doing. Either through words, actions or just outright rebellion against the system as it now stands. I would be the last one here to say that you are not an extremely bright individual. Your writing is almost impeccable to a fault. The potential of that alone is staggering to even a casual reader.
But, I go back to my original point. Until or unless you are willing to change and accept some responsibility, nothing is going to change. And that is sad. It doesn't have to be that way.
Over the past few months I have seen literally dozens of suggestions from well meaning forumites trying to help. What did they get for their efforts? Go To Hell! Even those that helped you financially. Do you really think that isn't a personal problem on your part. I would like nothing better than to know that you have taken steps in the right direction. I would like nothing better than to be able to buy a book that you wrote sometime in the future and be able to tell other people that I know this man, at least know of him. Only you can make those things happen.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on February 07, 2007, 12:58 AM:
 
quote:
then WHY are you still HERE? If you dont like it...
Cuz there are no stores that sell M-A-R-I-J-U-A-N-A around here except in the Santa Cruz CITY LIMITS. None across the Bay either. All of their baggies of ganja are bought at the Santa Cruz clubs!

Sick people can have their cannabis club in Marina California; when the feds legalize it. Aint gonna happen even with a DEMOCRATIC president in 2009. And just like San Diego, that city council doesn't give a rat's @ss how many people voted for Prop. 215.

quote:
Please show me anywhere in the U.S. that gives transitional housing to someone who insists they are entitled to smoke >1 oz of pot per week.
Never mind the weed Homer!

Many places won't rent rooms to tenents who smoke CIGARETTES. Smokers don't enjoy the kind of RIGHTS they granted to minorities, gays or even illegal immigrants. The manager will see Craig's CANCER sticks and have a legal excuse to refuse to rent the room. Others might jack up the advanced cleaning deposit to discourage the applicants hooked on nicotine...
 
Posted by lookwithin (Member # 1906) on February 07, 2007, 02:53 AM:
 
Now, let's go easy on Brother PSB. Each of has a burden to bear in life, even if it is self loaded (no pun intended).
I think that what is important in his unending diatribe is his absolute accuracy in hurling insults toward anyone who wishes to help the Brother.
Individually, you may not like this. But coming this close to perfection in an anti-social skill set must be scored as a remarkable feat.
Kinda like Pol Pot, but without the Killing Fields.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on February 07, 2007, 04:30 AM:
 
Bum doesn't want help. He's not happy unless he's mad. He does everything possible to make his situation worse. The slogan for his website/blog "where it all comes together" is a joke; nothing comes together for this guy. He continually bites the hands that feed him. Obviously, he has very real and deep problems that are way beyond the capability of people here to address, though many have tried. With the technology we have now, instead of being confronted with these people as we drive down the street, we have to deal with them also as we surf the net.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 05:54 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
What's the point?

Oh, I don't know, maybe the point is to keep them from going to warrant, getting taken to jail when they run your name because you're screaming 'go to hell' at people, freaking out in jail because you don't have your pot and getting sent to Dominican where they can hold you for as long as they feel like unless you can get a lawyer to get you out. Then you can pitch all the fits you want over taking not taking their meds and prove their point that you can't take care of yourself. Personally, having all my rights taken away and knowing that any objection I raise to any medication is just going to win me a longer stay is something worth trying to avoid.

Yeah, you're right, it probably isn't worth the effort to show up in court for an hour when you already know that there's a letter from the City on file asking the court to suspend your sentence.

quote:
And I had to rant and scream to achieve that.
No, you choose to rant and rave so that you can get your self-fullfilling prophecy fix for the day.

It may not embarrass you to abuse people who have been kicking in money and buying things to help you, but I'm feeling really uncomfortable about being a part of it. Almost everyone that has helped out wants to stay anonymous and has been doing it through me, but from now on if someone wants to give you anything they can PM you and work it out with you themselves. This is ridiculous, and there are hundreds of other homeless people in need out there that aren't so rude to the people who help them, and who use the help to get on their feet. I do this stuff for fun and for personal reasons now and this sure isn't fun.

[ February 07, 2007, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on February 07, 2007, 06:51 AM:
 
Cagey, I emailed God this morning and nominated you for sainthood. You deserve it!

My advice to Craig is this: stop making an issue of smoking pot where you live. Do it outside or elsewhere, like millions of normal people do. There is no need to continually rub your problems in other people's faces. You do not have the right to smoke anywhere you want, and constantly demanding the right, from your position of weakness, is completely stupid and counterproductive. In your so-called desire to just have a place to live, why is it so difficult to compromise just a little to make it happen?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 07:09 AM:
 
Thanks pdskee, but I'm not even close. It's just different for me in terms of not taking it personally because of years of dealing with people who do the "it's everyone else's fault but mine" thing. I understand that Craig sounds uniquely ungrateful and rude to people less familiar with the different flavors of denial that are routinely broken out when someone doesn't want to take responsibility for where they ended up, but he's not all that unique in that respect. When it's your job, you get used to only half-listening to all the ranting and raving so that you can hear what services they might need between the lines and offer them to them. The fact that they're telling the staff that they hate us the whole time is sort of irrelevant to getting your job done. If they won't take the help, you keep the door open but move on to the next person that is being reasonable and that you might actually be able to help. They'll be back when they're ready to take some responsibility. Or not, but there are too many other people hurting out there to make a major effort to help someone that doesn't want what you have to offer.

I really like Craig when he isn't pitching a fit and find him enjoyable to talk to and be around. I'm also really touched and impressed by the number of people here who have pitched in money and supplies to make him more comfortable even though he rarely says thank you and often berates them instead. I'm not saying that I hate him or won't help him out when I can, but I just don't feel right about being a conduit for money from other people that only results in the generous person getting abused unless I'm sure that's really ok with them.

[ February 07, 2007, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on February 07, 2007, 07:27 AM:
 
Cagey, one of the guidelines(I looked it up) for sainthood is giving without measure. You qualify. I do not have the patience for these type of people, but have deep respect for people like you who do. Good luck!
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 07:34 AM:
 
LOL

Thanks. I know I don't know how to take a compliment well in general. Saints rarely ever got to have any fun, and I think you have to be far more demure and better behaved than I've managed to be.

Actually, there was one saint that was absolutely full-tilt nuts. The church couldn't decide if she was miraculous or just insane, so they split the difference and made her the patron saint of insane people and mental health workers. She sounds like she was having a hell of a lot of fun freaking out the good fathers of the church in her day.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on February 07, 2007, 07:43 AM:
 
Wasn't St. Paul bit of a hellion? He made it.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 07:47 AM:
 
I don't know. I was catholic and they're not encouraged to actually read the bible. It needs to be interpreted by a priest first and handed out on funny smelling mimeographed sheets with that weird blue ink IIRC. It's been decades, so maybe it's changed by now.
 
Posted by TSDuncombe (Member # 2197) on February 07, 2007, 07:50 AM:
 
Hey, I know this is off-topic, but I'm trying to start a new topic and the forum won't let me. Are there only certain people who can start topics? Any advice from you experienced forum people is warmly welcomed.

I want to start a "do you feel safe downtown?" thread.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 08:01 AM:
 
Hi TS [Smile]

There is something wrong with the Town Talk forum and you can't start topics there. We've been putting most of the local ones in the Opinions section.

I also noticed that you posted to PSB in the city council topic instead of in the homeless one that he reads. You can easily cut and paste that post over into the homeless topic and then delete the one in the council topic if you want. Not that I'm any good at staying on topic, but it's nice to keep the food fights contained to one topic if we can.
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on February 07, 2007, 08:44 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
...The fact that they're telling the staff that they hate us the whole time is sort of irrelevant to getting your job done....

LOL cagey - you sound so pragmatic.
I'll second the saint request - what's next in Robert's Rules of Order? [Wink]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 08:56 AM:
 
Could you all keep in mind that I was getting paid the last 7 years that I was there? Yeah, there were easier and better paid jobs, but there are some expectations that you don't belt the clients when someone is paying you to act like a professional. It's just faster to say 'yeah I know we all suck and it's all our fault and dinner is in 5 minutes so is there something else we can do for you?" than it is to wait for hell to freeze over and for them to show some manners.

Next on the agenda could be a resolution that allows anyone nominated for sainthood to park anywhere they want forever. That could be cool [Smile]
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on February 07, 2007, 09:01 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
...Next on the agenda could be a resolution that allows anyone nominated for sainthood to park anywhere they want forever. That could be cool [Smile]

Nice try. We said saint, not diplomat.
If there's a heaven, you'll have a reserved spot there (do crappy old cars go to heaven, too? [Wink] )
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on February 07, 2007, 09:05 AM:
 
Actually Cagey, the Hindus have a similar term which describes you also, and Steely Dan named a song after it, and you: Bodhisattva.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on February 07, 2007, 09:07 AM:
 
You guys should be more careful of what you wish on cagey.
Heaven may not be her cup of tea, after all... [Smile]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 07, 2007, 09:33 AM:
 
eah, you're right, it probably isn't worth the effort to show up in court for an hour when you already know that there's a letter from the City on file asking the court to suspend your sentence.


And then what? So they suspend the sentence. And what happens the next time I get a ticket. And in the meantime...

I haven't read the last page. I'm sure it's more of the same crap, blaming me.

You've done everything you could to prevent me from using marijuana as medicine, thrown me out in the street, stolen everything I have, and now you're going to throw me in jail, where, sooner or later, they will find an excuse to do the thing I fear most, shoot me up with drugs.

You all should be very proud.

[ February 07, 2007, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by TSDuncombe (Member # 2197) on February 07, 2007, 09:46 AM:
 
Mmm, I thought the definition of medicine was that it cured what ailed you. Under that definition, the "medical marijuana" doesn't appear to be helping. It may be time to try something new.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 09:50 AM:
 
Hey! My car isn't that crappy, and at least I got the mirror fixed and got rid of all the ducttape. I might even fix the windshield this year.

This is all very nice and flattering and thank you, but I still reserve the right to be a b!tch sometimes, ok?

Craig, you're right in that the letter will only work this time and not if you get another ticket later, but at least it would buy you some time and keep you from having a warrant. It's not like a camping warrant is a crisis, but it's really inconvenient to be picked up for it when you aren't expecting it.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on February 07, 2007, 09:54 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by TSDuncombe:
Mmm, I thought the definition of medicine was that it cured what ailed you. Under that definition, the "medical marijuana" doesn't appear to be helping. It may be time to try something new.

Actually, very few medicines "cure" anything. Most all medicines are simply symptom relievers.
Our whole medical system is based on repeat visits to our Doctor for more medicine. It's a symbiotic relationship between Drug Companies and Doctors, designed to enrich both.
Listen to a few of the Pharmaceutical ads on TV lately and you will start to understand.
Look at your own life experinces.
 
Posted by TSDuncombe (Member # 2197) on February 07, 2007, 09:58 AM:
 
Even by that definition, it's obviously not helping. The symptoms that one sees in PSB's posts are depression, anger, chronic feelings of helplessness, paranoia . . . clearly he's not getting much "symptom relief."

Just because a pharmaceutical (or botanical, in this case) isn't created and packaged by a drug company doesn't mean that it's a better solution to your problems than one that has been.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on February 07, 2007, 10:04 AM:
 
You seem to know a lot about PSB's symptoms and their severity.
I don't have that information, so I'm unable to argue that just maybe, pot is a treatment that helps PSB maintain his status quo and not drop off the deep end.
Are you a medical professional? When did you last examine PSB?

[ February 07, 2007, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: jgun ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 10:10 AM:
 
Jgun, there is no cure for bipolar disorder yet so all that the meds can do is ameliorate the symptoms at best. No one has ever misled me and implied otherwise, so I don't feel taken advantage of by the drug companies.

The older medications like lithium and depakote work well for some people but the side effects are horrendous. SSRIs don't work for us, and antipsychotics like seroquel are clearly linked to diabetes and liver damage. Anticonvulsants for epilepsy work great for me without much in the way of side effects other than a loss of focus if I push it too hard for too long.

I've asked Craig to tell me what 'working' means for him in terms of his meds because I think it would help me to understand him better, but he won't answer me. I really wish that he would try some of the newer ones too because that would free up his income for rent, but he won't. In the end I suppose we both are making choices that balance our mental health against possible future serious medical problems. I'd rather do it my way than his and be able to work and own a home, but no one can make that choice for him.
 
Posted by TSDuncombe (Member # 2197) on February 07, 2007, 10:15 AM:
 
You must define "the deep end" differently than I do, because as far as I'm concerned, being homeless, lashing out at everyone, feeling helpless to change your situation already is "the deep end."

It's easy to say "Who are you, Bill Frist?" But it's pretty obvious to anyone who can read that the situation is seriously dysfunctional, and also NOT what he would choose, if he felt like he did have a choice.

The not having a choice is an artifact of mind--it's not representative of the actual array of choices.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on February 07, 2007, 10:21 AM:
 
May I interrupt this well deserved KG love-fest, and change direction a bit? Thanks, I knew you'd agree. Sure, you're probably thinking that non-believers find "Saint" talk rather silly, but that is not so. I was a Saint supporter in the last playoffs. So, let's review: Much like Antonin Scalia recently uttered, "I'm not evolving", sadly, neither is this thread. Long ago, Craig wanted to know why the authorities deny entry to certain programs to MedGanja folks. I didn't read every response, and, might have missed helpful answers to his question, but I'm sure if I've missed it, someone will refresh me. His query to a simple question (which I consider valid under 215), hadn't been adequately addressed in my opinion, and, then (again), became an enormous thread offering sincere help, (usually with positive encouragements to act a certain way), verbal abuse, (which he returned in kind), and, rather well, most times. (That "Go To Hell" Thing is getting tiresome though, and discriminates against Atheists, since one must believe in Hell, to fear going there ). They just laugh, derisively, but I digress. So, we have folks who have all sorts of advice and ideas about what to do with Craig, from those who resent "paying" for his current condition, or those who would buy him a ticket to anywhere, just to get rid of him, to those who encourage his self-afflicted demise, to those who give up on him for not, "getting it", and becoming the "norm", to those who recoginize and encourage his writing ability. Lots of drama and opportunity to express ourselves, but, what about his question? It seems rather petty to me, to deny someone a bed because they choose to follow a ten-year old law. Any thoughts on that?
Sticking to the question would be a nice change of pace, but, if raiterating a valid question sparks someone's need for yet another unnecessary personal attack, proceed, but, be advised you are wasting keystrokes. Answering Craig's question in a non-judgmental way would be refreshing. I don't know the answer and am counting on those more knowledgable to school me on this one. It does seem rather strange one forfeits a benefit because he follows the law and needs his medicine, and, yes, it has been recognized as medicine. I'm starting to think that many folks haven't realized this is a ten-year old law, and has nothing to do with their personal views on weed, which are irrelevant concerning this issue--its legality in the State is established. Help me out, here. Why doesn't the Attorney General make folks obey the law? Why is it legal to deny someone legal medicine? Thanking you in advance for your positive, informational response.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on February 07, 2007, 10:29 AM:
 
Of course, raiterating is not a word, and I meant to type reiterating. Error geeks need to move on---nothing to cee here--oops, I mean see here.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on February 07, 2007, 10:29 AM:
 
Hey buzz- that's the crux of the situation, isn't it? If medical pot is legal, then how can it's use be banned by the shelters?
If one showed up at the shelter with a script for methadone, woukld they send him away also?
Seems to me that the rules are patently un-fair and biased.
The real problem in a shelter setting would be to smoke one's weed without half the house wanting to share. [Smile]
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on February 07, 2007, 10:35 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
Jgun, there is no cure for bipolar disorder yet so all that the meds can do is ameliorate the symptoms at best. No one has ever misled me and implied otherwise, so I don't feel taken advantage of by the drug companies.

Hey cagey- my argument was with tsd claiming that medicines are supposed to "cure" you.
My beef with pharmaceutical companies is that they seek more to have perpetually required treatments than they do actual "cures".
I didn't mean to imply that the treatments they've discovered haven't helped alleviate a lot of symptoms.
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on February 07, 2007, 10:44 AM:
 
quote:
that's the crux of the situation, isn't it? If medical pot is legal, then how can it's use be banned by the shelters?
If one showed up at the shelter with a script for methadone, woukld they send him away also?

Well, I answered this shortly after I first started reading posts by PSB and he had NO real reply other than, "they can choose to overlook the Federal Laws."

No, they can't.

Most Social Service programs require Federal dollars to keep them running - in the form of grants, entitlements, legislative funding streams, and other Federally connected funding. Prop 215 is a STATE Law, and has NO BEARING on Federal Laws at all. So, if a Homeless Shelter was "caught" allowing an illegal drug to be used in their facility the funding would be jeopardized, or lost - and, in essence, killing the services for the MAJORITY of those that do not smoke pot. While the law may eventually change on the Federal level, that has not happened yet. Make sense?

In Summary: PSB is demanding services that no public or non-profit agency can legally provide. And, he blames Santa Cruz - one of the most pot-friendly counties in the Country.

Hey Mr. Canada - you may want to relocate to Vancouver...you may have better luck there.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on February 07, 2007, 10:53 AM:
 
So, there you go PSB--looks like you need to find help that the FEDS don't have their illogical thumb stuck into. Thanks for the info, Greaves. The FEDS are the problem, not the solution. A logical response that relates to STATE interests is what I'm inquiring about. The Supreme Court comes later. I'm asking why our Government doesn't enforce the prevailing law in our STATE? How about that? I agree---the FEDS are all powerful, and can prevail with power over logical thought, through $$$ bribes, to spineless politicos afraid to defend the choices their citizens make, but it ain't right, and, that isn't what I was asking about, anyway. Forget the FEDS---what's the STATE view?
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on February 07, 2007, 10:55 AM:
 
Do the feds fund all the local shelters?
Isn't there even one that the city funds completely.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on February 07, 2007, 11:16 AM:
 
And, I forgot to add above, that unless someone (Cali) challenges them in court, nothing will happen, and we will continue in this "obey me or lose money" BS situation, that exists with an entity that owes its existence to We The People, yet sees nothing wrong with extorting us. I'd say Secession from the Union would be something to consider if we want to remain true to our beliefs in the Constitution. The States are not to become the Peones of the Federales. The intent of our FFs, (Founding Fathers), was the opposite, (at least in the beginning), in my opinion, however, folks have questioned my knowledge in the past, so you decide. The conditions for Revolution are aligning themselves. Look to the South. The demolition of the middle class has begun. Most folks I talk to don't trust their employer past next week to be there for them. Question Authority. Imagine. Go Giants.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 11:47 AM:
 
Buzz, I think that this group has had that conversation several times, but you might have missed them all. The last time I recall talking about it in depth was in the Measure K topic. This was my post:

I think that there's a real policy disaster in terms of medical marijuana as it relates to any form of publicly funded supportive housing situations. It's legally prescribed as medicine in California, yet at least perceived to be prohibited by the funding sources most used by homeless services to provide transitional housing and even overnight shelter. I doubt it was even an intentional policy sleight of hand, as I'm a lot more inclined to believe in incompetence than I am conspiracies when it comes to this stuff.

If I were attempting to solve this problem, I would first look at the contracts that the agencies hold with the major funding sources - (HUD at the federal level, Housing and Community Development at the state level that passes on other federal funds, the various mental health funding sources used by SCCCC, the County, the 4 cities and United Way) and verify the conditions that they state in terms of medical marijuana, if any.

If it's explicitly or implicitly prohibited by a funding source and I had a patient willing to play the game and go through the whole process, I'd file a grievance to begin the discussion and then see where it went from there. Absent someone requesting them to use their own process to address the problem, they have no real motivation to do so.

If it appeared to me that a funding source didn't prohibit the use of MM, I would politely ask the directors of the programs using that funding to explain their reason for denying services to MM patient, and if they thought that there was any way that they could make a reasonable accomodatation. If not, I'd ask them to put it on their Board's agenda to discuss. If they declined, I'd help the client file a grievance to get it discussed. Grievances don't always have to be hostile. They're just the process to resolve a problem. I'd go to the grievance hearings prepared to propose a reasonable accomodation that didn't adversely affect their other clients. It's been my experience that when both sides are willing to be reasonable, working out an accomodation isn't that tough.


and:

I think that the issue of denying transitional services to someone with a legitimate prescription goes beyond just your needs. I'm sure that there are or will be other patients with the same problems in accessing services. What I was talking about yesterday was a longer-term process to address it at the policy level.

I was thinking about it some more last night, and if I were going to do it I would want to talk first to an attorney that specialized in MM issues like Ben Rice, and one that was very experienced in disability cases like Bob Taren to get strategy advice, make sure that I'm interpreting the contract language correctly, and to read over anything I wrote to make sure that I was using the correct ADA buzzwords. It's always good to have an attorney look over this stuff anyway and delete all the unnecessary editorializing.

I know it's a long and painful process to go through, but I can't see another way to get it addressed at a policy level so that individual clients don't have to fight this battle on their own. And no offense to you PSB (since I have it too), but I wouldn't choose a mental health disorder as a test case. People have so much baggage and resistance about using pot as a treatment for mental illness that I think it would only cloud the issue at hand. I'd be looking for someone with a purely physical disability that other people can relate to more because I think it would have a better chance of working.


It's This topic
but you have to wade through a lot of abuse to get to it.

I think it could be done, but it's a long process that requires that the players stick with it for a long haul. That can be pretty difficult for a homeless person to do.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on February 07, 2007, 12:10 PM:
 
Thanks, KG for the informative response to my question. What about that Secession thing, though? The following may drift a bit toward being off topic, but, anyway, I think California could be self supporting and would be way better without the FEDS. It might be kind of interesting to need a passport to go to Vegas, or Tahoe, and don't forget the Chavezesque benefits of the State owning the oil! And, if folks travel at all, they find out that most folks think Californians are well......a bit different. Why don't we deserve our own Country? So, in that Spirit, even though you didn't ask, may I offer the following:

REVOLUTION by The Beatles

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right

So, sounds like everything's gonna be all right, to me. All we need to do, is Secede.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on February 07, 2007, 12:21 PM:
 
You know Buzz, you show up demanding a reality check and then offer absurd fantasy solutions. And you talk about wasted keystrokes?? The whole sainthood bit went right over your head. But that's OK, you're still awesome!

And, I'll take Dylan over the Beatles:

"I've got a head full of ideas
that are drivin' me insane"

"each of us has
his own special gift
and you know it was meant to be true
so if you don't underestimate me
I won't underestimate you"
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 12:30 PM:
 
I don't know about secession. Maybe we could just build a fence right below SLO to keep all those weirdo southern Californians out, one at the Oregon border because they hate Californians anyway, and then petition Amsterdam to annex us as a suburb. I liked it in Amsterdam. They don't sweat the small stuff.
 
Posted by Walter E. Wallis (Member # 1628) on February 07, 2007, 12:45 PM:
 
I would raise the fence around my house if I thought it would keep the liberals out.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on February 07, 2007, 01:23 PM:
 
Fences are not important to Liberals.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on February 07, 2007, 01:34 PM:
 
Good fences make for good neighbors.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on February 07, 2007, 01:45 PM:
 
I studied fencing once, and then took up the typewriter, then the computer. En Gard!

WORDS ARE MY SWORDS
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on February 07, 2007, 01:56 PM:
 
When you take up fencing they should warn you about the post holes. That's the darker side of fencing...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 02:03 PM:
 
 -
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 07, 2007, 03:15 PM:
 
I've asked Craig to tell me what 'working' means for him in terms of his meds because I think it would help me to understand him better, but he won't answer me. I really wish that he would try some of the newer ones too because that would free up his income for rent, but he won't.

That's not true.

And I've answered that question so many times in these forums and everywhere else. It stablizes me. It lift my depression enough that I can somehow continue, day after day.

I wonder why I bother. No one listens to me and after spending my time to type the same thing a 100,000 times you can say I -WON'T- tell you?

It does a lot of things for me, but evidently no one cares or I wouldn 't be getting this WON'T TELL ME response. It's on my About Me page, it's in this forum a hundred times.

I'm never going to read half of what's in here, I get too angry and must stop.

I just got back from Greenway and they've cut their compassion bags back from 1/4 oz./week to 1/8 oz. per week, (and there was someone living in a SLE standing in front of me getting one). 1/8 oz is enough to last me a couple of days, 1/4 doesn't last me a week. And I left my umbrella on the bus - not accustomed to the new baggage and having to carry so much in my hands. So everything I have is no soaked; my sleeping bag, my bag.

I've been thinking most of the day I would be happier in jail. Less stress. Less crap. I could get a decent night's sleep. I could bath daily. I wouldn't be ****ting my pants because there's no toilet.

Yeah, Santa Cruz makes jail look real inviting.

[ February 07, 2007, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 03:34 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
That's not true.

And I've answered that question so many times in these forums and everywhere else. It stablizes me. It lift my depression enough that I can somehow continue, day after day.

You're right - you did tell me that. Sorry. I don't think I'm framing my question right, but I don't want to beat it to death. I measure if mine work or not based on specific things I want to be able to do - I need to slow down enough to be able to eat, sleep, work, keep my house, and be ok enough to enjoy the rest of the time.

Bipolar I and II are so different that we have to deal with almost opposite things all the time. I think I forget that sometimes. Manic can be a lot of fun for a while until it becomes terrifying, but depression is hell until it gets even worse that that.

It seems to me that you wouldn't need anyone's help if MediCal or MediCruz covered pot as a medicine if it's prescribed legitimately. Since MediCal is a state program there shouldn't be all of the federal funding issues. Do you know if any group is working on that?

Greaves - do you know much about the particulars of MediCal or MediCruz and if there is any obvious reason why they couldn't cover it?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 07, 2007, 03:59 PM:
 
How is having to pay my first $467 of medical bills a month going to help? That is my Medi-Cal 'share-of-cost'. FOUR HUNDRED SIXTY-SEVEN DOLLARS. It might as well be a million. Which is, of course, the point.

I've said that at least a dozen times and it's really frustrating to tell that to someone that should understand the ramifications of that only to see that they don't get it.

As for what Cannabis does for me:

1) It lifts my depression enough that I can keep on keeping on, which - given my current situation - is a miracle.

2) It prevents and or relieves panic/anxiety attacks. We're talking about the kind where my entire body trembles and my eyes roll back in my head.

3) It prevents PTSD-type nightmares. Without cannabis I wake up with a start (at best) in the middle of the night, often more than once, from PTSD-type nightmares.

4) I have difficulty concentrating and focusing without it. Everything I have written and done here and everywhere else was done medicated. I could never focus long enough or well enough to do all that otherwise. In fact, I would probably seem incoherent as I would only use half the words necessary to convey my thoughts.

5) It regulates my sleep. Without it I have no sleep pattern, some times a couple of hours, some times 12 hours or more. It seems to me I am project oriented rather than diurnal. If I have any natural rhytym it is the night-person rhythm. I was born that way and have been that way all my life.

6) I have pains in my hand. I've been diagnosed carpal tunnel. It prevents my hands from going numb. I forget I have carpal tunnel when I have cannabis. Pains in my hands are rare and fleeting. I think I must also have arthiritis, but I don't notice anything, until I run out of cannabis.

7) I get cramps or charley-horses in my limbs and chest when I don't have cannabis. I don't know what this is or why. All I know is that they are frequent and painful, the kind where if you're lying down you have to jump up and stand on your leg to keep it from having a painful contraction. And they are rare to non-existent when I have cannabis.

8) It prevents or relieves hypomania. I don't have episode when I'm using cannabis unless I'm severely stressed.

As for trying any new pharmaceuticals. Uh, no. I'd rather go to jail. It is at least five years before the 'undocumneted' side effects begin to manifest, and with my experience with pharmaceuticals, and given cannabis works, I'd rather go to jail.

I really find it hard to believe that all of you can know I went into this ten years ago as a bi-polar medical marijuana patient and wasn't dead serious about, and didn't have good reason.

My biggest mistake was I didn't realize how truly retarded society was. I thought I was smart enough and clever enough to get by until I could get into subsidized housing as a medical marijuana patient, throught the FRONT door.

Actually, I thought I'd never need subsidized housing. I thought I could go somewhere on the fringes of civilization where everybody minded their own business and keep a little place and grow my own, and start a little co-op for a couple of trusted patients, and had found something useful I could do while writing and working on my genealogy.

But Nooooooooo.

[ February 07, 2007, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 07, 2007, 04:10 PM:
 
effects of bud

What about psychological dependence on marijuana?

Long-term regular users of marijuana may become psychologically dependent. They may have a hard time limiting their use, they may need more of the drug to get the same effect, and they may develop problems with their jobs and personal relationships. The drug can become the most important aspect of their lives.

How does marijuana affect the lungs?

Scientists believe that marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Therefore, the smoke is in contact with lung tissues for long periods of time, which irritates the lungs and damages the way they work. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that can cause emphysema and cancer. In addition, many marijuana users also smoke cigarettes; the combined effects of smoking these two substances creates an increased health risk.

Can marijuana cause cancer?

Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years.

[IMG]  - [/IMG]

CNS effects sound familiar to anyone??

[ February 07, 2007, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Ditto ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 04:10 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
How is having to pay my first $467 of medical bills a month going to help? That is my Medi-Cal 'share-of-cost'. FOUR HUNDRED SIXTY-SEVEN DOLLARS. It might as well be a million. Which is, of course, the point.

Craig, I really think that can get straightened out somehow by the folks at HPHP because it's just obscene that they would expect you to have to spend that much of your income on medical expenses. I've never heard of anything like it, which tells me that someone must have screwed up somewhere along the line. We never directly worked on any of that because HPHP were experts at it. Maybe Greaves knows more of the details, but between MediCal and MediCruz I never saw anyone go without medical care or prescriptions (other than pot).

I wonder what HSA thinks of all this. I can't imagine that the issue hasn't come up already from other patients, and they're pretty sympathetic to the issue in general. I bet someone is already working on it. I'll google later.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 07, 2007, 04:18 PM:
 
Long-term regular users of marijuana may become psychologically dependent

Ditto, I use cannabis for psychological disablity, as medicine. Of course I'm 'psyhcologicaly dependent'. It's my medicine you bozo.

And as for your cancer crap, the author of all those cannabis causes cancer studies designed the definitive study to prove that cannabis caused cancer, and it concluded that cannabis smokers are 10-25% LESS likely to get cancer than NON-SMOKERS.

The Tashkin Study - UCLA summer 2005

quote:

"Yes," said Tashkin. "The odds ratios are less than one almost consistently, and in one category that relationship was significant, but I think that it would be difficult to extract from these data the conclusion that marijuana is protective against lung cancer. But that is not an unreasonable hypothesis."

Look up the names on most of those 'cannabis causes cancer' studies Dumbo, I bet you'll find 'Tashkin' on most of them.

[ February 07, 2007, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 07, 2007, 04:28 PM:
 
And Dumbo, besides the fact that that chart must be from a D.A.R.E presentation or some other cult.

Do you have a clue what the side-effects are for the drugs they would prescribe for me? Not to mention the drugs that most people are taking today.

Homeless services says something about liver-damage being a number one problem with the homeless and everyone assumes they're drunk. Well a lot, if not most, of that liver damage is from pharmaceuticals. Including and sometimes exclusively multiple courses of antibiotics.

In my case, cannabis is the preferred treatment not just on efficacy, but in the interest of harm reduction.

For the love of god, I couldn't go out in the sun because I experienced hypersensitivity to light on those damn pharmaceuticals. That means I experienced nerve pain in my skin from the sun. And sexual diysfunction. And a whole bunch of stuff that you certainly aren't worth the time to mention.

I couldn't READ because the pressure in my eyes was so great they wouldn't change focus, damn you you stupid idiot. And it's all on my website.

But no, and I can say that a thousand million times here and you bozos just continue to spout your same old garbage.  -

I sat here and typed how my condition was like seizures and about Valerie Corral and you can say "I've asked him what it does for him and he won't tell me".

Right in the previous messages!!!! [Eek!]

[ February 07, 2007, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 04:31 PM:
 
Craig, I've told you over and over that my meds screw up my memory and I'm sick and tired of apologizing for it. If you can't deal with it, tough ****.

I don't feel good and I'm not in the mood to deal with this. Rant and rave at yourself all you want if you feel like being a self-centered *******. I don't care.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 07, 2007, 04:33 PM:
 
So you get stoned to improve your psychological disablity. Interesting. So if I ever have to pick you up off the street theres a 99% chance that you will have an altered mental status and cannot legally refuse treatment. Either secondary to marijuana effects or your 'normal' mental status. This means you get a slow ride to RMC and a psych hold (with no 'medicine')

Stay healthy, and on that side of the hill [Smile]

Next kid I get with a busted arm Im gonna stop downtown and grab a sack off some dealer and give it to the kid to burn. Problem solved. But, arms still broke...

Im sure you see my point.
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on February 07, 2007, 04:40 PM:
 
quote:
Do you have a clue what the side-effects are for the drugs they would prescribe for me? Not to mention the drugs that most people are taking today.

More so than you, im sure..
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on February 07, 2007, 04:50 PM:
 
there right!!!
dont blow pot!

use that really good bipolar garbage that may give ya parkinsons disease-it often does

n check out the other trash-pushed on the idiot box

with well known dangers

ever read the fine print on the legal trash???

ask my buddy- a "moderate" weedhead for 40 years-own business-NO health problems

but when legalized- a Good idea to display a worst case scenario with weed

as they prescribe garbage that is more dangerous

for a "drug free"(dont count the sex aids-sleeping aids-and other garbage for depression and ADHD-n trash 10% really need-) sex aids that may cause a "sudden decrease in vision" call yer doc n grab a cane sucker.

if pot BLINDED even ONE person

ever

they's be in a hissyfit anti pot hsyteria for decades over it....

but sexpills blinding a few-or killing a few? who cares?

post that cute body damage diagram with some TV dope!
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on February 07, 2007, 04:53 PM:
 
legal crap for depression or bipolar

KNOWN to often crap out the dopamine transmitter/ receptors?-whatever-my pot smoking friend is smarter n knows the details.....tee- hee

braindamage n brainchemistry screwed up-LEGALLY(drug casued parkinsons disease) brain damaged n twitching----for life

a well known effect of crap they dispense like candy

why even bother with prohibition-if they can dispense dangerous drugs anyway

pure garbage-n the bipolar crap should be only used in EXTREME emergency-like imminant suicide or whatever-- all else failing.

cheaper to give em a pill

then real human support-right? [Wink] [Big Grin]

good full page ad-for mood stabilzer that may kill ya-who forced em to list the dangers???

dang liberals-dont they beleive in a free market for our riech approved legal brainkiller?

n burn out your brain-but do it our way!

[ February 07, 2007, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 05:03 PM:
 
Mule, if pot works for Craig, that's great, but it doesn't work for me. Yep, it's highly likely that I'm going to end up with some major physical problem from taking them, but in the meantime I get a pretty decent quality of life. Feel free not to take medications if you don't want to, but for some of us the alternatives to not taking them are worse. I'm sure we all wish there was some decent treatment, but just about anyone that knows anything about the subject agrees that without medication our lives are likely to be hell because Axis I conditions like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia don't respond to talk therapy alone. No one is being cruel to me or taking advantage of me because pot doesn't work for me. I'm well aware of what the risks are. We're all going to die of something.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on February 07, 2007, 05:20 PM:
 
Craig, I've told you over and over that my meds screw up my memory and I'm sick and tired of apologizing for it.

I almost pity you.

I don't mean that in any sarcastic or mean way. I probably understand better than most.

As far as I'm concerned, life wasn't worth living on the drugs they put me on. Anything was better.

PS.

Do you remember what I answered when you asked me when I began to have hypomanic episodes? And what you said after that?

[ February 07, 2007, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 05:31 PM:
 
I know what you mean. I just hate that word as much as you do.

It's not that bad. It's not like forgetting to do things, or forgetting how to do them like it was when I was really sick. When I'm reminded I realize that I do know whatever it was and it kind of freaks me out and makes me wonder what else I'm forgetting. It's worse at night after a day at work. For some reason it never happens with work things luckily, or I'd be screwed.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on February 07, 2007, 05:35 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
As far as I'm concerned, life wasn't worth living on the drugs they put me on. Anything was better.

Yeah - I feel the same way in reverse.
quote:
Do you remember what I answered when you asked me when I began to have hypomanic episodes? And what you said after that?
I'm pretty sure you said it was when they gave you SSRIs because they didn't realize that you were bipolar. But...no I don't remember what I said other than that no one ever suggested that I take them because they'd never give them to a bipolar person, but especially not bipolar I. Is that right?

[ February 07, 2007, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Ol' Al (Member # 1813