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Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 27, 2007, 05:37 PM:
 
I was sitting in the library working on my genealogy.

I had 3 books open and five on the desk next to my computer.

I went out to smoke a cigarette and one of the workers started taking my books. I was standing outside where I could watch my things. I asked her not to do that and when she pretended not to hear I yelled.

When I got inside, after she'd closed all the books and lost my place, I asked here why she did that. Her response was to lower my voice.

She told me I could not go outside for a cigarette and to stay with my belongings and they threatened to call the police on me.

I'm trembling so bad I can hardly type.

GO TO HELL.

GO TO HELL.

GO TO HELL.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 27, 2007, 05:52 PM:
 
I left my glasses open in the middle of one of the open books, so it would be ABUNDANTLY obvious I was still working. The placement, the fact that my computer was on, in the middle of it all. My bags...

...it was a petty, malicious act. Well, GO TO HELL.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on March 28, 2007, 08:24 AM:
 
Golly Craig,we here at the forum are truly sorry for what was obviously an attempt by this young lady to rattle you.I am sure I speak for every living soul in SC-WE ARE SORRY FOR EVERYTHING CRAIG!
 
Posted by Sol (Member # 1130) on March 28, 2007, 08:42 AM:
 
PSB, I'm glad to hear it's all coming together and to know that tax dollars afford you the luxury of time to work on your geneology while the rest of us pay for it.
 
Posted by ecliptic (Member # 1484) on March 28, 2007, 09:24 AM:
 
OK, guys. Why not stick to the issue at hand?

What is the actual policy of the Santa Cruz Library regarding people who step outside for a moment, leaving their working materials behind?

I know I'd be pissed if someone started collecting them while I stepped outside for some fresh air. And I'd make a big stink about it.

I'm guessing there's more to the story than meets the eye, but on it's face I'd say PSB was treated pretty shabbily.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on March 28, 2007, 09:30 AM:
 
Hi Ec,I was sticking to the topic,i just assumed Craig was looking for an apology.So I gave him one from everybody.
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on March 28, 2007, 09:47 AM:
 
I duuno. I agree with Clip on this one. Sounds like they were doing a little hassling. I guess the only thing that could be added is that next time Craig is working on a project and feels the need to go outside, maybe he could ask a staff member if he could leave his belongings where he can observe them while he goes outside for a few minutes. Obviously, yelling Go To Hell at them isn't going to garner any respect in the future.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 28, 2007, 10:02 AM:
 
What is the actual policy of the Santa Cruz Library regarding people who step outside for a moment, leaving their working materials behind?

I've been told it's ILLEGAL to smoke (cigarettes) within THIRTY feet of a PUBLIC BUILDING by one of their staff before. Thing is, I'm probably one of the few 'regular' denizens of the library that actually USES it. I don't sit there and read comic books (ok, I'm an elitist), I don't watch movies. I don't snore. (She had previously had to wake up an old, very tired man who obviously didn't find anywhere to sleep in the rain.) I felt sorry for her until she pulled that crap on me.

It's not just stepping outside, people also must get up and leave to use the restroom. Etc...

It seems once an hour they announce the staff is going to go through and pick up anything that's lying around. And then about ten minutes later they go through and do it. She had been through once or twice before, besides waking up the man snoring across the isle from me. While it's possible she didn't notice me (in my bright orange shirt with the big green marijuana leaf on it) working there with 3 Who's Who open and 3 shut, for hours, going through them (I had started with Bartholomew Gosnold, and one thing led to another...) - but while it's possible she didn't notice me working there, or the glasses lying on one of the open books which she had to put on my (on and online) computer, I don't really think it's in the realm of probability. Particularly since I frequently must go to the information desk to get them to reboot their router. And it could have been her, now that I think about it, who told me to reboot my computer when I asked her to reboot the router because the wireless connected had crapped out.

I spend hours there. I had just spent 3 solid hours on ONE entry from who's who on James Hoge
Tyler McConnell (another 4th cousin, who married Jean Ellen duPont).

 -

The Tyler McConnell Bridge, over the Brandywine.

Would anyone like to by a bridge?

He was civilian aid to the Secretary of the Army, and on the board of governors of the U.S. Postal Service, among other things. Alot of other things. Including chairman of Delaware Democrats for Reagan-Bush [Roll Eyes]

[ March 28, 2007, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on March 28, 2007, 10:10 AM:
 
Craig, I think they're full of $hit. But, you of all people should know that the Taxpayer's expensive buildings are intended for the exclusive enjoyment of the Government Workers.

Personally, I think that they could have saved a million or two in building "Leadership's" brand new FIFTY TWO MILLION DOLLAR Government Palace in Watsonville, and put it behind a simple utilitarian building or two for the "Little" people.

For example, while I realize that I wasn't born into the right local family (bigotry) to be allowed to play in "Leadership's" private mello concert hall playground, perhaps they could still take pity on me as the "Local Bum of Music". Just push a crummy piano into the laundry room or something and, I could play "cleansing" concerts for my colleagues, the visiting Bums from out of town.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on March 28, 2007, 10:29 AM:
 
Perhaps the library worker just made a mistake. Perhaps she really didn't hear PSB yelling.
This isn't out of the realm of possiblilty after all.

PSB, why is it that *YOU* are allowed to make mistakes (like forgetting what day it is) but everyone around you is supposed to be perfect?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 28, 2007, 10:32 AM:
 
Perhaps the library worker just made a mistake. Perhaps she really didn't hear PSB yelling.
This isn't out of the realm of possiblilty after all.


Actually, she stopped when she heard me yelling, after pretending not to hear. The only reason she stopped is because she saw I was coming back in the building. She didn't take the books. She left them there.

When I asked her why she did that she told me I couldn't leave my bags.

And Homer, any one that works in that library, that sits at that information desk, and can't be aware of whats going on in that building is far too stupid to be working in the public sector, and certainly too stupid and out of it to be working in the library.

That it was a petty, malicious act is actually the most GENEROUS explanation.

And, by the way, I'm getting accustomed to the police coming into whatever place I've just entered and asking whatever authority figure they can find if "every thing is ok". It's happend at least twice in the past 36 hours. I WILL begin keeping notes.

[ March 28, 2007, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by ecliptic (Member # 1484) on March 28, 2007, 10:41 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by imaham:
I guess the only thing that could be added is that next time Craig is working on a project and feels the need to go outside, maybe he could ask a staff member if he could leave his belongings where he can observe them while he goes outside for a few minutes. Obviously, yelling Go To Hell at them isn't going to garner any respect in the future.

Two good ideas.
 
Posted by seakin (Member # 1412) on March 28, 2007, 11:17 AM:
 
Looks to me like we are discussing symptoms instead of reasons.

I would like to know the "whys"

Why does the librarian feel compelled to take action to square away the books and table wher PSB was doing his self-professed research. It seems like a very weird thing for a librarian to do, just out of the blue. Perhaps there is some things that have transpired in the past that may have contributed to the action. Unless the librarian is mean-spirited, then there must be something happening that is causative to her actions.

Why was PSB compelled to yell at yet another local government employee.

I would hope that a commons such as a public library is not made into a hostile or loud area. One should be able to take toddlers into a public library any time it is open to the public. No one should be allowed to make make it uninviting to any citizen.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on March 28, 2007, 11:47 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Actually, she stopped when she heard me yelling, after pretending not to hear.

How do you know she was pretending? Are you a mind-reader?

quote:

And Homer, any one that works in that library, that sits at that information desk, and can't be aware of whats going on in that building is far too stupid to be working in the public sector, and certainly too stupid and out of it to be working in the library.

That's rich! A guy who went over his CC limit because he forgot what day it was calling someone else stupid.

quote:

And, by the way, I'm getting accustomed to the police coming into whatever place I've just entered and asking whatever authority figure they can find if "every thing is ok". It's happend at least twice in the past 36 hours. I WILL begin keeping notes.

Paranoia strikes deep...

[ March 28, 2007, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: homer ]
 
Posted by Pragmatist (Member # 809) on March 28, 2007, 11:53 AM:
 
I foresee the City of Santa Cruz soon being stuck with another library employee workman’s compensation settlement due to job related stress.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on March 28, 2007, 11:56 AM:
 
seakin wrote:

quote:
Looks to me like we are discussing symptoms instead of reasons.

I would like to know the "whys".......Why was PSB compelled to yell at yet another local government employee.

I agree that there are many issues that invite the Public to ask "Why" - for instance: why in the world would the American Public want the Courts to go easy on the crooked Election Commissioner? But, our Congressman certainly did - in spite of the fact that the mere suggestion of criminality in our Elections Office strikes at the very core of our Representative Democracy. Do our Votes really count Sam? We don't really know, do we? Thank you Mr. Congressman. (and, what's in it for him?)

However, with the homeless there's no mystery to solve - we should just deport them, but, to where?

Perhaps, until we can answer that one, we should quit inventing new arbitrary standards and just help them. Just because an American is down on their luck for whatever reason, they're still Americans. Not paying Taxes does not make an individual any less a member of the Public. Our Public Servants are paid extremely well to serve - not judge - the Public.

note to our "Loyal" Public Servants:


 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on March 28, 2007, 01:27 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
...any one that works in that library, that sits at that information desk, and can't be aware of whats going on in that building is far too stupid to be working in the public sector, and certainly too stupid and out of it to be working in the library.

At least she's working.

Do you really believe that yelling at someone with whom you expect to have an ongoing relationship is going to help you in the long run?

When you're asking the 'stupid' librarian to reboot their router, did you ever wonder how many OTHER people you're kicking offline because YOU are having a connection issue?
 
Posted by seakin (Member # 1412) on March 28, 2007, 01:37 PM:
 
Billbo,

Citizens do not have the right to be abusive or hostile to government employees or government facilities simply because those employees and facilities are part of civil service.

They serve the public....yes...that does not give the public Carte Balnche to say and do whatever they feel like doing to public servants. Just like a company president or manager does not have the right to mis-treat an employee of their company simply because they pay the employee's salary.

For someone who claims to be highly and continually persecuted, I would have thought you would be empathetic to others who may have been treated in a hostile fashion.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on March 28, 2007, 02:15 PM:
 
quote:
"the public [does not have] Carte Balnche to say ...whatever they feel like [saying] ...to [our royal] public servants."
What was that silly scrap of paper that so many young Americans have died defending? Oh yeah, THE BILL(bo) OF RIGHTS!!! And, included in that list of "non binding suggestions" for Public Servants: oh yeah! : FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!

quote:
For someone who claims to be highly and continually persecuted
I've never claimed generalized persecution. I've mentioned specific instances of unethical, immoral and illegal activity "Under Cover Of Authority", sponsored by and/or "Officially Winked At" by various Government Entities up to and including the State of California. Each hoary layer of their crooked "Government Arts Monopoly" - from Watsonville to Sacramento - is controlled by the Dirty Demos.

But, my fellow "Honest Brokers" of this Forum, what about this:

quote:
why in the world would the American Public want the Courts to go easy on the crooked Election Commissioner? But, our Congressman certainly did - in spite of the fact that the mere suggestion of criminality in our Elections Office strikes at the very core of our Representative Democracy. Do our Votes really count Sam? We don't really know, do we? Thank you Mr. Congressman. (and, what's in it for him?)

 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on March 28, 2007, 02:25 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by seakin:
Citizens do not have the right to be abusive or hostile to government employees

Steve and BillBo are exempt, because they are so special.

I have sympathy for librarians. They sign up for wonkish careers, and they end up running a defacto social service day care center.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 28, 2007, 02:39 PM:
 
Perhaps, until we can answer that one, we should quit inventing new arbitrary standards and just help them. Just because an American is down on their luck for whatever reason, they're still Americans. Not paying Taxes does not make an individual any less a member of the Public. Our Public Servants are paid extremely well to serve - not judge - the Public.

Well said.

Thank you.

I would like to know the "whys"

Why does the librarian feel compelled to take action to square away the books and table wher PSB was doing his self-professed research.


Probably because I smoke cannabis every 3-4 hours. I was just smoking before I came in. Police went by at 1:14pm and 1:54pm. I wouldn't have been there that long but a very nice lady stopped to ask me about using it for seizures and we had a very nice, long chat.

But to answer your question: Yes, why did that librarian feel compelled to tell me I had to put my drink away the other day? A can of soda. I had just taken it out of my pack and placed it on the table. I was about to get up and take it outside and drink it. It wasn't open.

Why didn't she look at it to see if it was open? When did she even extend to me the must fundamental courtesy and look at the can to see if it was even OPEN before she went off on me?

I give people far more respect and treat them far more politely than they treat me. I would never dream of telling someone they couldn't have a soda in the library without at least looking at it to see if it was open. And if she could have waited just a few seconds before unloading her hostility on me she would have seen I was getting up to take it outside for a break.

BUT BREAKS ARE NOT ALLOWED AT THE SANTA CRUZ PUBLIC LIBRARY!!!!!!!

And as for knocking anyone else off-line, I know exactly how many people are knocked offline when I ask to have the router re-booted. NONE. Because the issue isn't my computer. And I'm not going to sit in the library rebooting my computer all day to prove it.

The issue is the router.

Actually, a different librarian has asked me serveral times if I was online when someone else had connection problems and I was able to tell her I was having none.

[ March 28, 2007, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 28, 2007, 02:41 PM:
 
Sit tight... We are taking you back to: GO TO HELL!!!

Don't cha just love the drama? [Big Grin]
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on March 28, 2007, 02:43 PM:
 
Craig is unfortunately in a bad situation but willingly and continually does everything he can to make it worse and push things over the edge. And then complains about the results. Just like "Bring em on Bush" challenged the terrorists to kill our troops(which they are still taking him up on), Craig keeps daring the police to arrest him, then he will whine about that. He can't keep complaining if he doesn't create new horror shows. Maybe it's just to get bulk filler for this copyrighted novel he is working on. He needs some action parts. It's all coming clear!
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on March 28, 2007, 08:27 PM:
 
quote:
Steve and BillBo are exempt, because they are so special.
Oh, pooh poohpedly, not so "special" jus "DIFFURNT"

quote:
I have sympathy for librarians. They sign up for wonkish careers, and they end up running a defacto social service day care center.
Me too. Mom used to complain about the mess in the johns from the homeless at the "Nice New" Watsonville Library.

But, that's just it.

They have to do (whatever) in the libraries and other less than appropriate public places because the Government has dropped the ball. Provide effective non judgmental help and they would be far less likely to always be under so many sensitive noses.

We're the richest country in the world. Plenty of Americans are extremely productive and the government takes a lot of tax money from them.

If the Government just used their bottomless gold mine wisely for a truly huge change, there would be far more public funds than they ever really needed. (and, they could then patriotically make volunteer payments on the national debt with what they frugally saved the Taxpayers.)

So, if we're really worried about China "owning" the USA, just quit paying six figure salaries to so many dead weight paper shuffling government bureaucrats and quit wasting the rest of the Taxpayer's Money on all those Fifty Two Million Dollar government (Sadam Palaces).

See, "Big Money" politics is not so hard to figure out after all!

Like my Dad told Santa Cruz County after inspecting the Taxpayer's brand new Government Center on Ocean Street, "Don't accept the building until they have gone back and installed fire baffles in the electrical conduits."

(Ya see, making the contractor go back and do his job right - and prevent the fire - would have been a lot more responsible to the Public than forcing the Taxpayers to later pay for the inevitable fire, which, of course did happen in the mid 90s - exactly where Dad told them it would!)

But the Proud and Important "Official" Mutual Backslappers of Santa Cruz County didn't like being told that, so they fired Dad instead of preventing the expensive Courthouse fire on behalf of the Taxpayers.

Must have been something he said? Perhaps he didn't "Look Respectful" enough for them as he was attempting to explain basic science facts for the fifteenth time to the typical village idiot "County Robbers"?

Oh, sorry, I forgot how sensitive our Government Workers are........ (well, then take a p-i-l-l)
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on March 29, 2007, 01:06 AM:
 
quote:
why in the world would the American Public want the Courts to go easy on the crooked Election Commissioner? But, our Congressman certainly did - in spite of the fact that the mere suggestion of criminality in our Elections Office strikes at the very core of our Representative Democracy.
I remember hearing that the registrar was busted after the 2006 elections in Monterey county. He might be facing charges soon enough. Stand by for updates from the local TV newscasts...

[ March 29, 2007, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: captainkidd1953 ]
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on March 30, 2007, 07:17 AM:
 
quote:
He might be facing charges soon enough.
He's been convicted, but, after our Congressmen butted in to urge leniency, was sentenced to a mere slap on the wrist.

WHY?????? Are we all fellow DIRTY DEMOS out here in this ONE PARTY mutual backslapping society?

Talk about a glaring need for OVERSIGHT!!!! (Yes, and the BCA Issue too folks - "Leadership's" genuine "Officially Sanctioned" local criminality)

Pill Poppin good?
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on March 30, 2007, 07:19 AM:
 
quote:
He might be facing charges soon enough.
He's been convicted, but, after our Congressmen butted in to urge leniency, was sentenced to a mere slap on the wrist.

WHY?????? Are we all fellow DIRTY DEMOS out here in this ONE PARTY mutual backslapping society?

Talk about a glaring need for OVERSIGHT!!!! (Yes, and the BCA Issue too folks - "Leadership's" genuine "Officially Sanctioned" local criminality)

Pill Poppin good?
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on March 30, 2007, 07:22 AM:
 
quote:
He might be facing charges soon enough.
He's been convicted, but, after our Congressmen butted in to urge leniency, was sentenced to a mere slap on the wrist.

WHY?????? Are we all fellow DIRTY DEMOS out here in this ONE PARTY mutual backslapping society?

Talk about a glaring need for OVERSIGHT!!!! (Yes, and the BCA Issue too folks - "Leadership's" genuine "Officially Sanctioned" local criminality)

Pill Poppin good?
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on March 30, 2007, 10:36 AM:
 
quote:
SALINAS, Calif. (BCN) - The former Monterey County registrar of voters was sentenced to five years of probation Thursday for the repeated abuse of county expense accounts.

Anthony Anchundo, 55, was sentenced by Monterey Superior Court Judge James Cadle for using county procurement cards issued in 2000 for personal expenses such as extravagant dinners, gifts for friends and vacations, according to a representative of District Attorney Dean Flippo.

Anchundo was charged last July after a probe led by Monterey County District Attorney Investigator Tracey Spencer.


capn, it already happened.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 30, 2007, 11:08 AM:
 
If the Government just used their bottomless gold mine wisely for a truly huge change, there would be far more public funds than they ever really needed. (and, they could then patriotically make volunteer payments on the national debt with what they frugally saved the Taxpayers.)

I find myself thinking about how much money the city spends on things like law-suits over who is 'surf city'. I don't know how much they spent, and probably won't investigate it. But when you consider that you can't stay in the water here more than a few minutes without an EXPENSIVE wet suit, 365 days a year, it does seems rather frivolous to me.

Craig is unfortunately in a bad situation but willingly and continually does everything he can to make it worse and push things over the edge. And then complains about the results.

I'm not particularly proud of my behavior. I sent a couple of emails to the official city council website yesterday. Reading them over this morning, the best I can say for them is that they express my sentinment pretty well. But I certainly would have expressed myself differently if I had sent them this morning.

That's the worst thing about this whole situation for me. What it's done to me. Constantly being woken up by dogs barking at you. And the damn dog owner who train their dogs to profile and harass certain people while shouting "leave IT".

Constantly having to be in pulic, whether I'm able to cope with it or not. And having to deal with the stink-eye from your inhospitality stalkers, and being buzzed by the police (on numerous occasions they have gone by me every FIVE MINUTES for a half hour or longer).

And having to find a new place to sleep every night, or every day or to. Being reminded from morning till night I'm not wanted, and sneered at.

And this on top of what I went through before and have been going through for ten years.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 30, 2007, 11:11 AM:
 
Speaking of expensive law-suits, Robert is in court this week (superior court I believe) over an incident five years ago. Evidently giving the city council the Nazi salute is not protected speech. That is the stance (I understand) your city council has taken, and is spending your money to defend.

While the poor die in the street, and are tortured and driven mad until they do.

[ March 30, 2007, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on March 30, 2007, 11:16 AM:
 
you know, psb, if it's not working so well for you, you can change that. and it doesn't require any of us as a government to provide you a house while you use your drug of choice. it's too bad that you chose your lifestyle to your own physical detriment, lash out at people that you don't even know, and really have no future plans to help drag yourself out of your self made quagmire. i know i'm probably going to get a barrage of excuses, the litany of past hurts that people have done to you and plenty of go straight to hells, but, so what.

have you ever been to santa barbara and tried out your lifestyle?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on March 30, 2007, 12:04 PM:
 
and really have no future plans to help drag yourself out of your self made quagmire

Yeah, I'm the cops that busted into my home, ripped the place up and threw me in jail.

Yeah, I'm the landlord that evicted me because they were afriad of what the cops MIGHT do.

Yeah, I'm the so-called homeless services that doesn't recognize medical marijuana.

Yeah, I'm the 'case worker' that watched me suffer for months to save money to get myself out of this situation only to sabotage me and literally force me to go into debt staying in motels last winter in the rain...

...at least god's on my side.

Enjoy the drought.

And ROT IN HELL.

[ March 30, 2007, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on March 30, 2007, 12:15 PM:
 
psb, that was then, this is now. have you ever tried your lifestyle in santa barbara? they are going to have the same drought, aren't they?

i don't understand when someone asks you a question, you resort to the same unneccessary oath and insult. can't you at least practice civility or is that not within you?

i'll ask you this time directly...is your behaviour and lashing out working for you toward your goal of getting free housing where you can self medicate with your drug of choice, probably to paid for by the government? that seems to be what you want, isn't it? i'm just trying to find out what you are doing toward getting your goal?

i have a question for you, since i don't know how the mental health system works...if it is determined through your public ranting and behaviour that you are a danger to either yourself or the public, can the authorities hospitalize you? and if so, will you be able to self medicate?

being from the south, i would expect more gentlemanly behaviour and reponses from you. especially when someone is being civil to you. thanks in advance for your civil response.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on March 30, 2007, 12:41 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Evidently giving the city council the Nazi salute is not protected speech. That is the stance (I understand) your city council has taken, and is spending...While the poor die in the street...

Actually, it's Robert who's initiated the lawsuit, and is thus spending city money that could otherwise be spent on services on his "right" to repeatedly disrupt public meetings.
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on March 30, 2007, 10:22 PM:
 
DRILL AMERICA
!! [Big Grin]

sure fuel-sure jobs-American fuel n jobs too.... [Wink]

n if there is oil in Hell-drill that too.

[ March 30, 2007, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on March 31, 2007, 10:22 AM:
 
Dirty Craig comes with:
quote:
I give people far more respect and treat them far more politely than they treat me.
LMFAO [Eek!] [Big Grin]

yet we have:

quote:
I went out to smoke a cigarette and one of the workers started taking my books. I was standing outside where I could watch my things. I asked her not to do that and when she pretended not to hear I yelled.

When I got inside, after she'd closed all the books and lost my place, I asked here why she did that. Her response was to lower my voice.

Here we have PSB moaning about other services hes 'entitled to'.

quote:
And as for knocking anyone else off-line, I know exactly how many people are knocked offline when I ask to have the router re-booted. NONE. Because the issue isn't my computer. And I'm not going to sit in the library rebooting my computer all day to prove it.

The issue is the router.

More proof mary jane plays with the mind:

quote:
When I got inside, after she'd closed all the books and lost my place
you were 'researching' so hard you couldnt remember what part of a book you were into 60 seconds ago?

quote:
I'm trembling so bad I can hardly type.

GO TO HELL.

GO TO HELL.

GO TO HELL.

this is your reaction to someone who asks you to take food and drink outside so we taxpayers dont have to replace a book you spilled a coke on?
I know. In addition to her workday she should also go around and be a coke can inspector. Maybe make sure every little kids brown bag is rolled tight (assunming parents even let their kids frequent the homeless shelter, er, library anymore) or perhaps hover over you to make sure youre going to be a responsible adult today (fat chance of that happening) in order to make sure youre not going to 'pop the top'. Then we would get whines about 'YOUR librarians persecuting the unwashed masses'.

[Roll Eyes]

it amuses me to no end that somehow youre in the same genepool as all these successful people (according to your 'research')yet youre, you. I guess if I was stoned 18 hours a day Id believe myself to be of royalty as well, no matter how far of a stretch Id have to make.
 
Posted by matty (Member # 1111) on March 31, 2007, 10:57 AM:
 
Phillip Baker Hall:

 -

 -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Giles



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwrQdQSXDbg
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on March 31, 2007, 04:09 PM:
 
PSB, when I was homeless, i made sure that my stuff was at a location that i could easily get to it. the stuff i carried with me, i always carried with me. and what i said in the other thread about me being homeless for a couple of months that does not include the two years i spent homeless in southern cal. so i do know what i am talking about. you seem to be looking for an excuse to complain about everyone and everything. i feel bad for your situation at the moment, i really do but buck up butter cup. you need to work things out for yourself. no one helped me, and probably no one will help you. you need to help your self and get off the pity pot and WORK!! Do something positive for your self and others and you will see the benifits of that. i realize you are sick, and you have other issues going against you but so did I. we all do everyday. if you dont help yourself, no one will bother extending a hand. if you keep *****ing and moaning about how everyone is against you, how do you expect to get anywhere?
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on March 31, 2007, 06:29 PM:
 
Sharkbait, it's nice to see you here, and to see you housed. Welcome back, bud!
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on March 31, 2007, 09:34 PM:
 
DRILL AMERICA-- n put people ta work-reducing homelessness. the rigs have housing/buffet food smorgasboard as yu burn a lot of caleries on a rig... n ''offtime'' (1 week on. one week off) ya have enuff money for week somewhere hotel/the folks,, whatever, with money to spare. [Razz] [Wink] [Big Grin]

there;s roughly 15 bill. barrels offshore- S Calif they cant drill-or rather WON'T drill..... [Wink] [Big Grin]

[ March 31, 2007, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: mulepig ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 01, 2007, 01:04 AM:
 
quote:
Actually, it's Robert who's initiated the lawsuit, and is thus spending city money that could otherwise be spent on services on his "right" to repeatedly disrupt public meetings.
It isn't much of a stretch from saying, "f--- the police" on hundreds of FM radios, to screaming "seig heil" at dur city council.

He is wasting the county's money too, since the city does not operate a courthouse or employ it's own bailiffs, stenographers, judges or 12 jururs each day of the trial. We do have laws against disturbing the public peace; which can include disruppting a public meeting as well as blasting your stereo after 10:00 PM.

Hey Mak; maybe Bush should have fired that US Attorney in San Jose a long time ago! How many times does the FCC have to raid FRSC and take away Robert's toys? G-men have been there 5 times already and wriiten a sh!+ load of citations. The second visit is enough to be forcibly arrested, prosecuted in federal court and sent to Bush's prison in most other jurisdictions...
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 01, 2007, 01:27 PM:
 
ROT IN HELL.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 01, 2007, 01:33 PM:
 
And I just want to ad one thing about using your children as weapons...

...they will never forgive you.

Ever.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 01, 2007, 01:43 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
quote:
Actually, it's Robert who's initiated the lawsuit, and is thus spending city money that could otherwise be spent on services on his "right" to repeatedly disrupt public meetings.
...He is wasting the county's money too, since the city does not operate a courthouse or employ it's own bailiffs, stenographers, judges or 12 jururs each day of the trial....
Yes, indeed. Like Becky's "chalking" trial. Talk about self-centered bourgeois attention-seekers, huh?
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 01, 2007, 01:51 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
ROT IN HELL.

And...
quote:

And I just want to ad one thing about using your children as weapons...

...they will never forgive you.

Ever.

WTF are you babbling about this time?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 01, 2007, 02:33 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
ROT IN HELL.

And...
quote:

And I just want to ad one thing about using your children as weapons...

...they will never forgive you.

Ever.

WTF are you babbling about this time?

Really, Craig - this one isn't up to your usual standards in terms of a rant. Who used whose children as a weapon to do what with?

Oddly enough, I'm actually curious. That was more like a commercial than the show itself.

[ April 01, 2007, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 01, 2007, 03:08 PM:
 
Last week, somebody asked where our "professional" homeless activists were; when his buddy, Craig, went to court over those camping tickets. Yes we know; he was busy on the radio cussing out those Santa Cruz PIGS...

[ April 01, 2007, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: captainkidd1953 ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 01, 2007, 03:30 PM:
 
Oddly enough, I'm actually curious. That was more like a commercial than the show itself.

It was the comment by someone previous here about what I 'might' have been doing in the library and their assumption that whatever it was wasn't appropriate for children and their assertion that 'children' should be able to walk through any public place at any time.

Talk about a dirty mind [Eek!]

And Lynn Robinson (in the minutes from your downtown nazi's meeting) was urging everyone to take their children out, which is code for using them to stop traffic (metaphoricly speaking).

But while we're at it, you've already got the whole top floor of the library for children only - what would happen to me if I went up there? And these children 'only' areas in the parks - strategically placed so that the whole park is a children's area.

And of course, any objections I might raise to these nazi parents using their children as weapons will be dismissed as 'anti-children'...

...and people wonder why their children are piercing their sex organs with safety-pins (among other things). Not to mention their noses, their lips, their eyebrows, and all sorts of things I never thought of (I'm sure.)

Greg told me this morning, as I was waiting for the library to open, that the THREE cops that walked by at 12:57 had just demanded to make sure that he didn't have vodka in his water bottle. Thank got they didn't pull that on me.

Karen, when have you EVER had to go through anything like that?

Oh, and you can't sit in front of City Hall on the weekends, Greg informed me. First Alarm will roust you.

Susan told me she's homeless. Homeless services got her a 'situation' with a diabetic. She came home, found them on the floor in a coma with a pan burning on the stove, and her thanks for keeping the place from burning down and having to live in that was to get thrown out.

So much for all the wonderful work homeless services does. It's the same thing I hear over and over.

I hope Ditto enjoyed himself the other day. That was him, standing on the sidelines laughing while the police were escalating me, and telling me to leave town, wasn't it?
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 01, 2007, 03:37 PM:
 
Sherri is mad as Hell. She worked in the health-bay at least six months, but they tossed her out of the armory, for having been drinking I guess. She said they're all on meth. Including the monitors. She said she slept in the Pogonip, got bit by a recluse, washed it in a creek, and now she's got staff.

Patrick says he paid $80 (out of his disability) for a ticket for an open container in Depot Park at 8pm on a Friday night, that they screwed him over for $40, and that now they want $200 something...

I can think of nothing more despicable than robbing the poor, but it seems to be sport here. Robbing, harassing, discriminating and abusing them.

Greg tells me he was thrown out of the Roasting Company for having a back-pack. Evidently they are a no-back-packs allowed place now.

Sign, sign, everywere a sign.

ROT IN HELL.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 01, 2007, 03:39 PM:
 
And while I'm at it, where do the police get the authority to tell me to "Leave Town" as they have done numerous times.

ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.
 
Posted by Sol (Member # 1130) on April 01, 2007, 03:46 PM:
 
PSB,

I really think ditto has better things to do than drive over from Campbell and stalk you but I could be wrong.
I'm curious, while all the time spent shouldering the weight of your family history, exactly where are they right now and why don't they help you? Have you burnt that bridge too and if so why the need to study what's abandoned you?
Since a question seems to be twisted into a ballon animal here, I'll pass and go straight to _ell and do you the favor.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 01, 2007, 04:00 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:

Karen, when have you EVER had to go through anything like that?

Actually Craig, I've been through much worse things than anything that you've ever mentioned here, just not for as long, and I've been much sicker than I've ever seen you, but in a much different way. I'm just not blaming anyone else for the choices that got me into those situations and I didn't expect anyone else to get me out of them.

When I was really sick I used to wonder what it would be like to just let go and give in to it and stop trying to fight it. I just don't know what to say to you sometimes.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 01, 2007, 04:03 PM:
 
Sol, I realize you don't get it. But you will, maybe, someday.

But for now, just accept that my ancestry is something you can't take from me. You've stolen everything else.

And it explains (to me, anyway) why I have such a problem being told to go to the back of the bus, 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out, day after day after day after day - here in beautiful downtown Santa Cruz.

All I've been able to think about all day is Annette Funacello with her perfectly teased (and dry) hair, on that surfboard. No goose flesh, no wet suit. No, a bikini.

At least MY heritage is REAL.

And it is honest.

And that's a Hell of a lot more than I can say for Santa Cruz, which is one big lie, with signs everywhere saying don't to this and don't do that.

I was walking down the street the other day and this group of women were chatting. I overheard, "..some of those shops make you feel like you owe them for going in and looking..."

What could I say? I said, "Welcome to Santa Cruz," of course, "give us your money and LEAVE."

That's what this town is all about. Nothing more and nothing less.

It is as cheap and tawdry as a two-bit w_h_o_r_e

[ April 01, 2007, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 01, 2007, 09:59 PM:
 
My website topped 100,000 hits this month. That's well over a million a year. And probably a million views...

Hits
Total Hits 105,920
Average Hits per Day 3,310
Average Hits per Visitor 5.61
Cached Requests 26,727
Failed Requests 3,836

Page Views
Total Page Views 68,340
Average Page Views per Day 2,135
Average Page Views per Visitor 3.62

Visitors
Total Visitors 18,873
Average Visitors per Day 589
Total Unique IPs 3,992

One of the things that has really inspired me to investigate, and document (in my database) my genealogy is that it is a roadmap of the history of this country.

History used to be taught in dynasties. I ran across some interesting comments about this on one of the sites used to document the line to Charlemagne.

And the fact is, they exist whether we acknowledge them or not. It appears my genealogy is one of them (according to the Mormons, Abigail Howe is my 6th cousin, or something like that). She was Brigham Young's mother.

But anyway...

Here is the site I was talking about.

Well, forget the site. They're putting up the chairs and running everyone out. Guess the homeless aren't really supposed to use the internet on the weekends. They're just supposed to stand in line and be grateful for any crumbs you might toss their way...

...oh, by the way.

ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

[ April 01, 2007, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on April 01, 2007, 11:35 PM:
 
Craig, spare us the pity party and
GET A JOB like the rest of us.
Get a room, pay for an internet connection, and do as you please.
That is the return for working 8+ hours a day at someone else's pleasure.
If you're not able or willing to do that, then yes, when the free internet shuts down, so do you. It's really not that egregious.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 02, 2007, 03:21 AM:
 
quote:
PSB, here's a thought...weather's getting better, growing season is on, up north. Maybe you could hire on to help, in trade for shelter, food and bud? A friend of mine's kid has been doing it for several years.
This is the pothead's dream job; but I don't think that he's really going anywhere. There was an article here the other day about living in grow houses, splitting the profits and so on. He who expects to get some free dope should at least help with those plants...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 02, 2007, 05:28 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
...oh, by the way.

ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

See, this is the stuff that makes me so mad. It's one thing to come in here and type abuse at everyone when you really can't control yourself, but you were obviously in control when you wrote this. You were obviously in control and perfectly pleasant in the 2 emails that you sent me yesterday in between your rants here. What - do you cycle every 10 minutes or something? If the answer to that is 'yes', your medication isn't worth a damn for your condition. If the answer is no, they you're just being an abusive jerk because you think it's cute or something. It isn't - it's obnoxious and makes you look like a smug, bratty teenager. One more 'rot in hell' here and you can just assume that you better get a greyhound locker on Wednesday.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 02, 2007, 06:13 AM:
 
You need some humor. Try watching this...

http://www.archive.org/details/The_History_of_Marijuana
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 02, 2007, 07:40 AM:
 
Craig, you've made it quite clear you hate Santa Cruz. Do yourself and everyone there a favor and leave. Mommy pays your fines. I'm sure she'd buy you a bus ticket home. Like you said, your heritage is real(mine is phony!), so take advantage of it and hit the road.
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on April 02, 2007, 08:29 AM:
 
Cagey wrote:
quote:
What - do you cycle every 10 minutes or something? If the answer to that is 'yes', your medication isn't worth a damn for your condition. If the answer is no, they you're just being an abusive jerk because you think it's cute or something. It isn't - it's obnoxious and makes you look like a smug, bratty teenager.
Hi Cagey - Welome to my side of the line of Compassion, glad to have you here. You are correct in that the "medicine" is not working for old PSB. You cannot medicate a personality disorder, especially when complicated by an addiction to pot and PTSD. The only advised intervention for PTSD is psychotherapy - and, what would you want to bet that PSB have never even looked into the potential benefits of therapy for his condition. Typical 'blame everyone else' style of homelessness - not very productive, IMHO.
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 02, 2007, 08:50 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
quote:
PSB, here's a thought...weather's getting better, growing season is on, up north. Maybe you could hire on to help, in trade for shelter, food and bud? A friend of mine's kid has been doing it for several years.
This is the pothead's dream job; but I don't think that he's really going anywhere. There was an article here the other day about living in grow houses, splitting the profits and so on. He who expects to get some free dope should at least help with those plants...
Nobody legit in the medical industry will give Craig the time of day because he is a loudmouth that is in this for attention more than anything else.

If he wasn't, he would still be living in Brookdale... But, of course, that was the landlords fault, that Craig wanted to do something illegal as far as the federal government was concerned.

--Toll_Free
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 02, 2007, 08:54 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
...oh, by the way.

ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

See, this is the stuff that makes me so mad. It's one thing to come in here and type abuse at everyone when you really can't control yourself, but you were obviously in control when you wrote this. You were obviously in control and perfectly pleasant in the 2 emails that you sent me yesterday in between your rants here. What - do you cycle every 10 minutes or something? If the answer to that is 'yes', your medication isn't worth a damn for your condition. If the answer is no, they you're just being an abusive jerk because you think it's cute or something. It isn't - it's obnoxious and makes you look like a smug, bratty teenager. One more 'rot in hell' here and you can just assume that you better get a greyhound locker on Wednesday.
This is the kind of thing that shows it isn't medicine for Craig, it is a crutch... The crutch of an addict.

All he does is *****. *****, moan and complain. Offer still stands, Craig... If your ancestry is all you have, I'll give you the ticket to get to any of your ancestors in the US. After all, with all the family you dug up, you ought to be able to find ONE of them that doesn't believe your just an outright mental case, no?

I'm sure that you will just twist this into I'm trying to get rid of you... You will never see it for I'm trying to help you actually get to greener pastures. If Santa Cruz is so inhospitable to you, why not take someone's offer to help you actually get somewhere you can be accepted, have family to help you grow, get a job, etc., and the rest? What's the loss to you, Craig? Just the fact you lose something else to cry about?

--Toll_Free
 
Posted by radicalfanatical (Member # 1675) on April 02, 2007, 08:55 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
I was sitting in the library working on my genealogy.

I had 3 books open and five on the desk next to my computer.

I went out to smoke a cigarette and one of the workers started taking my books. I was standing outside where I could watch my things. I asked her not to do that and when she pretended not to hear I yelled.

When I got inside, after she'd closed all the books and lost my place, I asked here why she did that. Her response was to lower my voice.

She told me I could not go outside for a cigarette and to stay with my belongings and they threatened to call the police on me.

I'm trembling so bad I can hardly type.

GO TO HELL.

GO TO HELL.

GO TO HELL.


 
Posted by radicalfanatical (Member # 1675) on April 02, 2007, 09:00 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
I was sitting in the library working on my genealogy.

I had 3 books open and five on the desk next to my computer.

I went out to smoke a cigarette and one of the workers started taking my books. I was standing outside where I could watch my things. I asked her not to do that and when she pretended not to hear I yelled.

When I got inside, after she'd closed all the books and lost my place, I asked here why she did that. Her response was to lower my voice.

She told me I could not go outside for a cigarette and to stay with my belongings and they threatened to call the police on me.

I'm trembling so bad I can hardly type.

GO TO HELL.

GO TO HELL.

GO TO HELL.

For such an erudite elitist, I might suggest you spend some time researching the adverse health effects of cigarettes. You could avoid similar scenarios and perhaps improve your health. While you are at it, you might want to research the impact of cannabis on psychiatric disorders... perhaps your poor impulse control could be related to the interactive effect of THC and a paranoid disorder. Of course, if such reading is too heavy... you might consider reading the travel section. I am sure there are lots of towns in the deep south where your marijuana tee shirt and nasty attitude would be more kindly received... just sew on the stars and bars and all will be OK.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 02, 2007, 09:10 AM:
 
One more 'rot in hell' here and you can just assume that you better get a greyhound locker on Wednesday.

I didn't read any further than this.

I knew this was coming. I figured getting access to my things would have strings, conditions.

Well, ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

Sorry mom, I can see now that picture of Louis Patterson Allred and family will never be seen again.

[ April 02, 2007, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 02, 2007, 09:10 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Perhaps, until we can answer that one, we should quit inventing new arbitrary standards and just help them. Just because an American is down on their luck for whatever reason, they're still Americans. Not paying Taxes does not make an individual any less a member of the Public. Our Public Servants are paid extremely well to serve - not judge - the Public.

Well said.

Thank you.

I would like to know the "whys"

Why does the librarian feel compelled to take action to square away the books and table wher PSB was doing his self-professed research.


Probably because I smoke cannabis every 3-4 hours. I was just smoking before I came in. Police went by at 1:14pm and 1:54pm. I wouldn't have been there that long but a very nice lady stopped to ask me about using it for seizures and we had a very nice, long chat.

But to answer your question: Yes, why did that librarian feel compelled to tell me I had to put my drink away the other day? A can of soda. I had just taken it out of my pack and placed it on the table. I was about to get up and take it outside and drink it. It wasn't open.

Why didn't she look at it to see if it was open? When did she even extend to me the must fundamental courtesy and look at the can to see if it was even OPEN before she went off on me?

I give people far more respect and treat them far more politely than they treat me. I would never dream of telling someone they couldn't have a soda in the library without at least looking at it to see if it was open. And if she could have waited just a few seconds before unloading her hostility on me she would have seen I was getting up to take it outside for a break.

BUT BREAKS ARE NOT ALLOWED AT THE SANTA CRUZ PUBLIC LIBRARY!!!!!!!

And as for knocking anyone else off-line, I know exactly how many people are knocked offline when I ask to have the router re-booted. NONE. Because the issue isn't my computer. And I'm not going to sit in the library rebooting my computer all day to prove it.

The issue is the router.

Actually, a different librarian has asked me serveral times if I was online when someone else had connection problems and I was able to tell her I was having none.

Lots of probably's from you, again. Probably because you smoke pot? OK, so the librarian got tired of babysitting a stoner who was too friggin stoned to remember the rules of the library.

She didn't "go off" on you, she told you drinks where not allowed. They aren't. You broke the rules, again, and where told about it. Just because you are incapable of living within the laws, rules and such of society doesn't make the rest of society to blame, doesn't make the rest of society the problem, and doesn't make Santa Cruz the root of your evils.

Remember, you had problems before you came here.... And why do you stay? That is a question you DON'T answer. People offer to help you get to somewhere, ANYWHERE, that will afford you better opportunities, but you continue to stay here, where your drug habit is supported for free, and you have misguided "people" that are feeling "compassion" for you on this board, and feeding your own insecurities, emotions, etc. to watch you blow up weekly at anyone who dares to cross you.

The bottom line is, you didn't follow the rules, and where caught on it. Just because you feel you should be allowed to open your bag, bring a drink out, and then take it outside and smoke near the building (let's see, leaving the bag inside while exiting the building is 1 rule violation, smoking near a public entrance is another, and having a drink in the building is a third).... Wow, the NERVE of that b1tch for saying you shouldn't be there!

Learn to respect the rest of the rules the rest of us have to, Craig, and stop being a drug
addict, and people will be better towards you.

IOW, clean up, clean your act up. Want to be treated like an "upstanding member of society"? BECOME ONE!

Of course, I'm an @$$ who shouldnt' talk to you, belittle you, and I'm sure I should go to hell....

It's all good, though... My router doesn't need to be rebooted constantly because your connecting to it, though.... I've never had a problem at the library when using my PDA or my laptop. Guess that points the problem to where?

--Toll_Free
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 02, 2007, 09:26 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
One more 'rot in hell' here and you can just assume that you better get a greyhound locker on Wednesday.

I didn't read any further than this.

I knew this was coming. I figured getting access to my things would have strings, conditions.

Well, ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

Craig, I was talking about the stuff you asked me to store for you in my car on Wednesday. I told you that even if you pissed me off I wasn't going to dump your stuff that's stored up here. I may not be willing to deal with you until the day that you're ready to pick it up if you keep this crap up, though. You're being such a jerk.

ETA:

And 800 if by 'misguided' you mean me, don't worry about it. I don't think you behave any more rationally than he does most of the time, and if I regularly spouted the kind of stuff you did I'd be looking for guidance for sure.

[ April 02, 2007, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 02, 2007, 09:56 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:

And 800 if by 'misguided' you mean me, don't worry about it. I don't think you behave any more rationally than he does most of the time, and if I regularly spouted the kind of stuff you did I'd be looking for guidance for sure.

lol.. It was a troll, and it was more to see who would bite. If you bit to it, the shoe must have fit.

Anywho, I proved my point. The drama with Craig goes on if I am here, or not. I purposely stayed off the board for a period of time to see what would happen, since you claimed in another area that people like me where the problem. I guess not.

I have a family member that is a volunteer at the library. I think I'll ask them if there is another side to the story. Anything that seems to come from Craig's mouth always has a rational side as well, it seems.

--Toll_Free
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 02, 2007, 10:08 AM:
 
I give cagey great credit for trying to help Craig. It takes a very unique and gifted person to put up with such an obnoxious, irrational, and nasty person like Craig. It's easy and tempting to boot him the rear and kick him into another town to deal with his problems, but it's really just passing the buck. It's also easy to say - the nearest helping hand is at the end of your sleeve, but it's often not that simple. Anyone willing to walk into the lowest levels of society and try help, is a hero in my book; because I want no part of it.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 02, 2007, 10:24 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1-800 Toll Free:
lol.. It was a troll, and it was more to see who would bite. If you bit to it, the shoe must have fit.

Yeah right - like there was someone else you could have meant. Addressing me directly would have been fine. At least it would have been more respectable than trolling is.

quote:
since you claimed in another area that people like me where the problem. I guess not.
Can you repost where I said that people like you were the problem? (as opposed to saying that people who froth at the mouth have a problem?)
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 02, 2007, 10:26 AM:
 
I feel the same way skee- it's a thankless task to try and help the down and out. Most people have enough to deal with in avoiding the same fate.
Cagey is a gem to put up with PSB. Too bad he doesn't value her help more than he does. She deserves his cooperation at the least.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 02, 2007, 10:33 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by jgun:
...Cagey is a gem to put up with PSB...

Amen.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 02, 2007, 10:34 AM:
 
Thanks, but let's not start in on that again. Lots of you think I'm codependent, some of you think I'm doing the right thing, and a few think I'm too mean to him. I just do what I feel like when I feel like it - sometimes it's nice, sometimes it's irritated, and sometimes I roll my eyes and go read something else.

A bunch of you are nice to people and even suck up to them when I think they deserve to be told off on a regular basis, and you put up with stuff from people that I think is outrageous too. It's just different stuff [Razz]
 
Posted by Lurker (Member # 2293) on April 02, 2007, 12:01 PM:
 
First post.. I've been lurking on and off for awhile though. Finally had to speak up..

PSB - You are your own problem man. All you do is whine about stuff that you bring on yourself. I believe in Medical cannabis and think it should be completely legalized even for recreation. So that isn't an issue. I don't care if you burn all day, just be responsible for yourself, like everyone else.

Santa Cruz has been too damned hospitible to the "homeless by choice" crowd for way too long. It's why we chose to live outside the city limits when moving here 8 years ago. I do own a business on the Westside and am glad the police are FINALLY doing something about all the trash that needs cleaning up in this town, though they have a LONG WAY to go.

My wife and I went to dinner downtown Saturday for the first time in months and were pleasantly surprised there actually is some progress in getting rid of the riff raff. Instead of having a reputation as being THE place to come and live for free. The majority of "homeless" in SC are not from here, but came here knowing it was tolerant.

PSB Thank you very much for saying all this:

quote:
And, by the way, I'm getting accustomed to the police coming into whatever place I've just entered and asking whatever authority figure they can find if "every thing is ok". It's happend at least twice in the past 36 hours. I WILL begin keeping notes.

being buzzed by the police (on numerous occasions they have gone by me every FIVE MINUTES for a half hour or longer)

And while I'm at it, where do the police get the authority to tell me to "Leave Town" as they have done numerous times.

Greg told me this morning, as I was waiting for the library to open, that the THREE cops that walked by at 12:57 had just demanded to make sure that he didn't have vodka in his water bottle. Thank got they didn't pull that on me.

This tells me that my observations are correct and the police really are starting to do the job we pay them for. Thankfully, I was getting ready to give up any hope of Santa Cruz becoming a nice, safe place again.

Lurker - Out.
 
Posted by woofy worm (Member # 2148) on April 02, 2007, 12:38 PM:
 
Greg tells me he was thrown out of the Roasting Company for having a back-pack. Evidently they are a no-back-packs allowed place now.

Yes, PSB I was told that I could not have a backpack and jacket sitting on the seat in the booth. I had just returned from adding some Sugar In The Raw to my cup of Earl Grey tea when the, I am guessing, manager swooped down on me and told me the above mentioned. Can you imagine? Maybe my backpack does have a small hole on the top of the middle zippered section. Is that a crime? Or, is it the fact that the navy blue color on the outside is fading? Hmmm. If Colleen, the deceased, former owner were still alive would she treat a customer like this? I`m beginning to wonder. Is Colleen`s daughter, who now owns this business, approving of behavior like this of her employees? Four days ago I more or less dared a friend of mine to go inside and order a drink at the dreadful S.C. Roasting Co. She was afraid that we would be jacked up and given the BUM`S RUSH so we decided not to frequent the biz. Thanks, PSB for alerting our forum buds to the aforementioned.
[Cool]
 
Posted by woofy worm (Member # 2148) on April 02, 2007, 01:01 PM:
 
"Greg told me this morning, as I was waiting for the library to open, that the THREE cops that walked by at 12:57 had just demanded to make sure that he didn't have vodka in his water bottle. Thank got they didn't pull that on me."

Well, it was only two cops, but, the fact that we are suspect while sitting at the benches on the northwest outside of the library makes me just want to go out and BEG some Vodka to pour into my bottle of water that was, by the way, bought from Safeway. I guess that from now on I will have to hide my water bottle and pull it from my backpack when needing it only to hide it when not drinking from it. I was also asked if the mt. bike rear me was mine. What is so interesting about a used GT mt. bike? At least when my brand new Giant - Sedona ST 06 was stolen on January 29th this year from outside of the main library`s east facing sliding door (the cable being cut) the Bike Church was kind enough to give me one to replace it. They helped me more than they will know as the nerve loss in my right leg from the car hitting me @ Soquel & Haggemann, in front of the former Takara restaurant on November 14, 2006 has been hard to deal with with all of the walking and/or bicycling that I do daily. [Cool]
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 02, 2007, 11:24 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdskee:
I give cagey great credit for trying to help Craig. It takes a very unique and gifted person to put up with such an obnoxious, irrational, and nasty person like Craig. It's easy and tempting to boot him the rear and kick him into another town to deal with his problems, but it's really just passing the buck. It's also easy to say - the nearest helping hand is at the end of your sleeve, but it's often not that simple. Anyone willing to walk into the lowest levels of society and try help, is a hero in my book; because I want no part of it.

1. Craig bags on an industry I actually work with.. The MM field. His rants directly effect me, my friends and my family.

2. I'm not trying to pass him off to another city, I'm attempting to give him free passage to somewhere that he knows someone that can help him get on his feet. I'm not going to be the social worker @$$hole that tells him I have to verify everything, because I know that sometimes isn't possible. I'll give him the benifit of the doubt. I remember how hard it was to actually GET help when I was in his position with the bueracracies and crap people put you through. If he wants to go somewhere, knows someone or anything, let me know... Ticket's waiting for him at the greyhound.

3. It's beating up on ones-self to let Craig talk to them at all like he does. It's really quite sickening, but I've noticed, Santa Cruz REALLY is full of people who LIKE getting abused, in one way or another.

Anywho... I didn't want it thought I was trying to pass him off somewhere else.. Just having BEEN in his situation before, I remember getting a ticket to my family (who wouldn't give me an OUNCE of help until I GOT there) was near impossible, since none of them wanted to deal with the social workers / etc and they had a problem believing me, naturally, in the situation I was in.

--Toll_Free
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 02, 2007, 11:27 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
quote:
Originally posted by 1-800 Toll Free:
lol.. It was a troll, and it was more to see who would bite. If you bit to it, the shoe must have fit.

Yeah right - like there was someone else you could have meant. Addressing me directly would have been fine. At least it would have been more respectable than trolling is.

quote:
since you claimed in another area that people like me where the problem. I guess not.
Can you repost where I said that people like you were the problem? (as opposed to saying that people who froth at the mouth have a problem?)

The troll wasn't directly aimed at you, it was aimed at everyone reading.... To see where they stood atm. Kind of one of those, if the shoe fits things, as I said before. Respectability, that has nothing to do with it. Again, if the shoe fits...

I'm not going back a month + to go find some esoteric post to prove a point that is moot. I don't have the time.

Have a nice day. Craig, want to move? Tickets a waitin!

--Toll_Free
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 03, 2007, 03:01 AM:
 
Save the ticket TOLL FREE. He isn't going anywhere, not even to help tend his "medicine" crops that are being planted here in Santa Cruz county. Never mind that the Wo/Men's Alliance for Medical Marijuana grow their weeds to share with club members, who did the dirty work. Most of them have cancer, glaucoma and other diseases that can be treated with some THC.

The Corrals don't own a head shop over by COSTCO. They don't sell weed to a space cadet; who comes in with a note from a quack doctor, who claims that pot will cure his diarrhea. You gotta join their club and work in their garden for your medicine. Or no Marijuana.

Those who live, just to get stoned 24/7/365 can buy pot from the street dealers and take their chances...

[ April 03, 2007, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: captainkidd1953 ]
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 03, 2007, 03:58 AM:
 
"Santa Cruz has been too damned hospitible to the "homeless by choice" crowd for way too long. It's why we chose to live outside the city limits when moving here 8 years ago. I do own a business on the Westside and am glad the police are FINALLY doing something about all the trash that needs cleaning up in this town, though they have a LONG WAY to go."

Welcome Lurker---I'm sure it's not that the Police don't WANT to clean up the "trash" and "riff raff", but, sadly, their hands are tied by those silly things we have called laws. Sure, they could just load everyone up on a big 'ol dumptruck or something once they've been properly ID'd as "homeless by choice", "trash", or "riff raff", and, that isn't a problem apparently, as we have plenty of folks here who feel qualified to do so. My question is, where 'ya gonna' take 'em after they've been identified and rounded up? They can't just ride around in a dumptruck forever, can they? They've gotta be dumped somewhere. I'm sure Craig is happy to have even more free psychoanalysis to help him along. Free psychoanalysis, friendly advice, and even free travel! Santa Cruz is packed with compassionate folks. BTW, you all have inspired me to do the same. I'd like to buy everyone who has offered Craig a trip out of town the same thing. I'll buy you all a bus ticket to Philly. Perhaps while there, you could read the Constitution. And, riding the Hound is always a pleasant experience and a great way to see the country and meet a different class of your fellow citizens. The Constitution is really quite good, and has some crazy stuff in there about equal treatment and being secure in your person, (which just might include not being harassed by police for being homeless or drinking water), and stuff like that, without regard to one's shelter situation. What could they have been thinking? Really. Check it out. I was amazed, and those old Dudes spent a lot of time thinkin' it up. Give it a try, you might like it. And don't even get me started on those other denizens of decent folks downtown, those darn Liberal Students. How arrogant they are to want to vote (Hi, Steve) and hang out downtown in outlandish gear, and act like young folks do. I think we should go after them next, and, the dumptruck will be available. If I have enough folks interested in the trip to Philly, it might be easier to just get a Charter. In fact, I've got a Commercial license with passenger endorsement, so why don't I just drive y'all? With a layover in Vegas, of course, to see how a real Police State can sanitize an area.

[ April 03, 2007, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: Buzz Daly ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 03, 2007, 06:19 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1-800 Toll Free:
I'm not going back a month + to go find some esoteric post to prove a point that is moot. I don't have the time.

I bet not. People who are full of sh!t rarely do.
It wouldn't be so bad if you ever had anything intelligent or pleasant to say here instead of endless Craig bashing and bragging about how you pulled yourself out of homelessness. Yeah, you and several million other people. Big whoop-de-do [Roll Eyes] .
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 03, 2007, 08:02 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
quote:
Originally posted by 1-800 Toll Free:
I'm not going back a month + to go find some esoteric post to prove a point that is moot. I don't have the time.

I bet not. People who are full of sh!t rarely do.
It wouldn't be so bad if you ever had anything intelligent or pleasant to say here instead of endless Craig bashing and bragging about how you pulled yourself out of homelessness. Yeah, you and several million other people. Big whoop-de-do [Roll Eyes] .

Whatever, Cagey (living up to your moniker, aintcha?).

It's plainly obvious that you need the attention your getting here and by helping Craig. I'll quietly go away now, so that you can continue to feel better about yourself and your charity case.

Don't bother to take anything else into consideration that I said above, that would completely trash your theories.

And no, I'm not full of crap. Go ahead and search out your diatribes towards me. And no, I don't "Craig-bash". If you feel that's what I do, maybe you need to get another cat or something..... Because your motherly instincts towards someone who continues to slowly kill themselves is amazing. I mean, at some point..... Everyone has to realize they are being used.

But, to each his own. I'll sit here by the sidelines, because the only person that CAN be right is you, and the ones that align WITH you. I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about, having been in a very similiar situation. You, of course, DO know the best course of action.

Nevermind that your course of action only perpetuates his actions.... Self depricating actions. But, it makes you feel better in the end.

Craig, honestly, if you ever get real help, you will see just what a b1tch she has been to you, giving you everything you need to stay homeless. "As long as you continue to feed the homeless kitty, it won't stop coming to your porch... Nor will it change it's actions.". They call that a creature of habit, and we can see that Craig has habitual tendencies, can't we?

See ya, I'm off to work. At a business I own. Don't have time to sit here all day and tell everyone how great I am because I take on a charity case that uses and abuses me. That's a sickness, all in it's own, methinks. Never been down that road, though, so it would be conjecture on my point.

And where the hell do you get off telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, nor that I have the RIGHT to voice MY opinions and give Craig an actual option (ticket anywhere he wants, that will enable him to have a roof over his head, not store his crap for him so he can sleep in the rain continually, forgetting what day of the week it is because he is too stoned out of his mind to actually be in reality because his reality is some self serving idiots that believe they are helping him by helping him be homeless).

Oh, I could go on, but why? It falls on deaf ears. You didn't want to read anything I wrote, already had it in your head that it was wrong (it didn't agree with your views, so I COULDN'T possibly be right... Another GREAT Santa Cruz mentality... One I'll have to agree with Craig on, "You're entitled to you're opinion, as long as it coincides with mine".... Yeah, it's BS, too. People should be allowed to state what they want, when they want, and not have to worry about someone else bagging on them, huh? So far, I offered Craig a ticket, and told him I thought he was full of crap. Since then, I've had to constantly fight off a barage of insults thinly guised as other things from you, and your cronies (let's see what that troll gets now), because "Others have tried your methods, and they didn't work"... Yeah, using your logic, your full of sh1t as well, huh?

--Toll_Free
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 03, 2007, 08:05 AM:
 
Do you spit on your monitor when you foam at the mouth that way? Try a bib and a napkin.
 
Posted by Lurker (Member # 2293) on April 03, 2007, 08:53 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
"Santa Cruz has been too damned hospitible to the "homeless by choice" crowd for way too long. It's why we chose to live outside the city limits when moving here 8 years ago. I do own a business on the Westside and am glad the police are FINALLY doing something about all the trash that needs cleaning up in this town, though they have a LONG WAY to go."

Welcome Lurker---I'm sure it's not that the Police don't WANT to clean up the "trash" and "riff raff", but, sadly, their hands are tied by those silly things we have called laws. Sure, they could just load everyone up on a big 'ol dumptruck or something once they've been properly ID'd as "homeless by choice", "trash", or "riff raff", and, that isn't a problem apparently, as we have plenty of folks here who feel qualified to do so. My question is, where 'ya gonna' take 'em after they've been identified and rounded up? They can't just ride around in a dumptruck forever, can they? They've gotta be dumped somewhere. I'm sure Craig is happy to have even more free psychoanalysis to help him along. Free psychoanalysis, friendly advice, and even free travel! Santa Cruz is packed with compassionate folks. BTW, you all have inspired me to do the same. I'd like to buy everyone who has offered Craig a trip out of town the same thing. I'll buy you all a bus ticket to Philly. Perhaps while there, you could read the Constitution. And, riding the Hound is always a pleasant experience and a great way to see the country and meet a different class of your fellow citizens. The Constitution is really quite good, and has some crazy stuff in there about equal treatment and being secure in your person, (which just might include not being harassed by police for being homeless or drinking water), and stuff like that, without regard to one's shelter situation. What could they have been thinking? Really. Check it out. I was amazed, and those old Dudes spent a lot of time thinkin' it up. Give it a try, you might like it. And don't even get me started on those other denizens of decent folks downtown, those darn Liberal Students. How arrogant they are to want to vote (Hi, Steve) and hang out downtown in outlandish gear, and act like young folks do. I think we should go after them next, and, the dumptruck will be available. If I have enough folks interested in the trip to Philly, it might be easier to just get a Charter. In fact, I've got a Commercial license with passenger endorsement, so why don't I just drive y'all? With a layover in Vegas, of course, to see how a real Police State can sanitize an area.

Please. Let's not kid ourselves here. Santa Cruz is a HAVEN for the "homeless by choice" lifestyle. I won't even argue that this does exist because if live in Santa Cruz and have eyes you know damn well what I am talking about. If you can't see it you are blind. The trouble makers you see downtown are for the most part, young punks who think it's "cool" to be "homeless". Sit around and beg (and steal) so that others can pay for their drug habit. The powers that be in Santa Cruz help give this city that image by being beyond tolerant of this behavior. They actually welcome it with places that you can park your broken down motorhome, camp out, etc. without being harrassed. This brings the HBC (Homeless by Choice) crowd here from all around the country. They know EXACTLY where to head to live their "lifestyle".

What do we do with them, you ask? To be totally, brutally honest. I don't care at all. I have a full on NIMBY attitude. Dump them off somewhere else and let them be someone else's problem. Not too many other towns that would tolerate it though. I've lived in many different towns over my life and I have NEVER seen anything like Santa Cruz.

Personally it doesn't affect me that much. I live in a nice, clean beach town in the county where I don't have to deal with the crap going on in SC. I rarely go downtown. If we're going out to dinner, shopping, etc. I prefer to take my business elsewhere. Carmel, Los Gatos, Rio Del Mar, Soquel, Capitol, Scott's Valley, etc. How come none of these places seem to have the same problems as Santa Cruz?? They won't let it happen, that's why. Send one of the Santa Cruz HBC down to Carmel or Los Gatos and see how long they last. I'm guessing minutes before the police are informed and are running them out of town. It would be nice to be able to go downtown and spend my money locally, but I don't NEED to. From what I see though, maybe SC is finally changing their thought process a little. The new laws on panhandling, loitering, etc. that are finally being enforced is a good sign. I say change the way people view SC. Make the HBC crowd so uncomfortable by having the police ride their *** and enforce the current laws until they are all gone..

I can't mention the HBC crowd without mentioning the bleeding hearts that actually give these people money when they ask. They are just as much to blame, if not more, than they city itself for making SC the craphole that it is. Don't give them a penny, ignore them like they aren't even there. if EVERYONE did this eventually they would get the point..

CLEAN SC UP!

Luker - OUT.

[ April 03, 2007, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Lurker ]
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 03, 2007, 11:01 AM:
 
So, is that a maybe on the Philly trip? What's interesting is that your post was like a flash back to the 80s when Santa Cruz was recognized as one of the Troll Busting capitals of the US, and full of folks quite willing to flex their muscles on the less fortunate. Some of our citizens certainly distinguished themselves then, including the Police. Is that the kind of recognition you seek? Santa Cruz is fine, and if you think it is a hellhole, you are the one who is blind, and perhaps should get out more. Carmel sounds perfect. The only thing I'd add is the "Sugar Plum Fairy" walking around downtown handing out rose colored glasses and blinders so the privileged will not have to see something unpleasant in their Fiefdom. I think they'd be more willing to hang with the homeless, since they have something in common. No numbered address.
----------------
Apparently being "tough" and running folks out of town, or beating them, or whatever (i realize you don't care as long as they don't disturb your afternoon or evening and just disappear), has been tried, and apparently failed. The following appeared in Time mag 22 years ago.

-----------------

Harassing the Homeless
Monday, Mar. 11, 1985 By JOHN LEO

In New York City's Greenwich Village this winter, odd-shaped metal boxes and barbed wire were placed across hot-air exhaust grates to keep homeless people from sleeping in the neighborhood. A center helping the homeless in downtown San Diego burned in a fire classified as arson. And in Santa Cruz, Calif., where vagrants are called trolls, the police brass felt it necessary to warn their officers not to wear TROLL BUSTER T shirts while off duty.

------------

We have laws to deal with transgressions by all our citizens, homeless or housed. If you see something illegal, call the Police. Blanket condemnations of people based on personal prejudice is not that cool in a Democracy in my view.
 
Posted by woofy worm (Member # 2148) on April 03, 2007, 03:22 PM:
 
Oh, and PSB, be careful that you are not caught @ Cowell`s Beach teaching surfing to board virgins w/o a permit! Nothing amazes me as what is layed on you folks here in this city. Being a 12 year resident of L.A. Co. and then 39 year resident of Orange Co. there is less of a police state in those counties.

BTW, can I borrow a cup of Vodka for my water bottle? Until the price of it comes down I am unable to purchase it like most people, excluding my friend`s friend, who just rips it off from local large chain grocery stores.

I`m off to see if I can jacked up on the lawn @ city hall! LOL! Maybe that First Alarm rent-a-cop will see me along to the other side of the street and then tell me that I CAN`T stop @ the curb on my bike for a quick second. Grrrrr. After all is not the street gutter city property?

[Frown] [Roll Eyes] [Eek!] [Wink] [Razz]
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 03, 2007, 05:37 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by woofy worm:
Being a 12 year resident of L.A. Co. and then 39 year resident of Orange Co. there is less of a police state in those counties.

So why are you here?
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 03, 2007, 05:49 PM:
 
Maybe freedom of movement? Or, do folks need to check with someone first? If so, who?
 
Posted by Sol (Member # 1130) on April 03, 2007, 05:56 PM:
 
Wolfy,
It's not a matter of the OC being a police state. They wrote the book on surf unfriendly. OC required a permit (license if you will) resined near the tail block of your board in order to legally surf in the county. There was never a day surfing at the Huntington Cliffs that OC sheriffs didn't search our trunk or helicopters buzzing overhead at night by the late 60's it became the norm. No one bothered to enforce maritime law save Huntington bch by posting black ball flag over waters they have no control over, it was just assumed they had control by rote which would have shown a municipal government has no authority over the ocean. but here I digress. I believe it was the time that David Nuuiwa who created the short board that was below the length of the then defined surf board and the era of the license was gone.
the Golden Bear where the Canned Heat was for the most part, the house band was a favorite place to bust youth for no reason but with a passion with a passion. At least Santa Cruz from what I could tell of it's history was tolerate from the get go to surfing. I grew up in SoCAL and every place was hostile to surfing including the Marines at Trestles. Even the Encinitas Police at Swamis were most unpleasant. OC is and always be a cultural wasteland unless you consider the Crystal Cathedral as the Rome of the west coast, Disneyland, Up with People, legoland and Seiureworld, examples of cultural ambassadors...
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 03, 2007, 07:00 PM:
 
Thanks, Sol--great post. Things were different then. Thanks for the reminder, especially about Trestles.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 03, 2007, 10:50 PM:
 
quote:
Oh, and PSB, be careful that you are not caught @ Cowell`s Beach teaching surfing to board virgins w/o a permit! Nothing amazes me as what is layed on you folks here in this city.
quote:
It's not a matter of the OC being a police state. They wrote the book on surf unfriendly. OC required a permit (license if you will) resined near the tail block of your board in order to legally surf in the county.

Try the other side of the wharf. The sand is technically private property. Maybe the Seaside company goons won't hassle people for surfing between the wharf and the Casino. I wouldn't do it right in front of the park because that section is crowded with more tourists there.

They have created a police state in Orange County. The Gestapo doesn't even respect certain state laws. A Santa Cruz county issued "medical marijuana" card is worthless there. Valerie Corral's card and her baggie of weed was seized by the pigs; who don't care about Proposition 215 down there. Nobody has filled to seceede from the state of California either.

These are the same idiots; who filed a silly lawsuit over that Surf City trademark. Their history dates to the mid 60's and a few old 45 RPM records that we find in the GooDwill Bargain barn or a flea market. We have original 1880's vintage redwood surf boards in our museum. Local newspaspers archives are full of Deprssion era surfing articles. Those Beach Boys, Jan & Dean etc weren't even born during the Roaring 20's. We are the ORIGINAL thing here...

[ April 03, 2007, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: captainkidd1953 ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 04, 2007, 06:42 AM:
 
And Robert loses another one...

Judge rules Nazi salute too disruptive for public venue
By Shanna McCord
Sentinel staff writer
SANTA CRUZ — Free speech goes only so far inside City Hall.

A federal judge has ruled that city officials had the right to eject a homeless-rights advocate from a council meeting in 2002 for giving a Nazi salute.

The judge said the action was too disruptive for the venue.

"You don't have the same First Amendment rights in a meeting as you do on the street," said attorney George Kovacevich, who represented the city in the five-year, $100,000 legal fray. "You have the right to attend, but you don't have the right to say whatever you want, whenever you want"

Robert Norse sued the city for alleged violations of his civil rights under the First and Fourth amendments shortly after being arrested at a council meeting in March 2002.

Then-Mayor Christopher Krohn had called an end to the public-comment period of the meeting and instructed a woman to step away from the microphone. After twice being told to leave the microphone, the woman walked over to Norse, who raised his right arm toward council members in a Nazi salute, the way Nazi supporters saluted German dictator Adolph Hitler during World War II.

Then-Councilman Tim Fitzmaurice interrupted Krohn to ask Norse to leave the meeting, saying the salute was an insult to the "dignity of the body"

Norse refused to leave and was subsequently arrested.

The problem with Norse raising his arm to the council was not the meaning of the salute, but rather the disruption the salute caused, according to U.S. District Judge Ronald M. Whyte, who issued the decision last week.

A City Council policy states that people who "interrupt and refuse to keep quiet or take a seat when ordered to do so by the presiding officer or otherwise disrupt the proceedings of the council" may be removed from a meeting.

Norse, a council gadfly who often launches bitter attacks on the city's homeless policies, said the salute was meant as a protest to the city's refusal to deal with homeless issues.

He plans to appeal Whyte's decision to the 9th District Court of Appeals.

"This is not about the Nazis and this is not about me," Norse said Tuesday. "This is about mayoral actions that involve oppression. What I'm fighting is not the Nazi salute. I'm fighting council oppression"

Rules limiting speech at council meetings are absolutely necessary to conduct city business, Kovacevich said.

Federal law also gives added protections to city officials in cases of alleged civil rights violations. City officials can mistakenly violate a person's rights and not be held liable.

"They have to make spontaneous calls and run a meeting and not be afraid of getting sued every day," Kovacevich said.

Former Mayor Scott Kennedy, serving on the council in 2002, said Norse's salute was disruptive because he was standing in the front of the room where the council and public audience could see him.

"In my view, it was not the content," Kennedy said. "It was the time and place, and it did disrupt the meeting"

Councilman Mike Rotkin, not on the council in March 2002, said Norse has a long history of arguing with council members and straying from the topic being discussed.

"The entire council meeting is not a free speech forum," Rotkin said. "We go out of our way to make ourselves open and accessible to everybody. Robert needs to follow the process like everyone else, which is what the court told us"

Contact Shanna McCord at atsmccord@santacruzsentinel.com.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 04, 2007, 07:56 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:

Then-Councilman Tim Fitzmaurice interrupted Krohn to ask Norse to leave the meeting, saying the salute was an insult to the "dignity of the body".

Oh man. That's too easy.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 04, 2007, 07:59 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Maybe freedom of movement? Or, do folks need to check with someone first? If so, who?

Put down the spleef for a moment Buzz. I'm just asking why someone would move to a place they think is a "police state".
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 04, 2007, 08:07 AM:
 
What a joke! The owner operator of an ILLEGAL and UNLICENSED FM radio station is worried about FREE speech. Hardly an issue; when Robert Norse can push a mike key and call the mayor a Nazi 8itch 24-7-365. Lets everybody say, "f--k the police". The FRSC gang does it all of the time.

THEN WHY DISRUPT A PUBLIC MEETING? They have an outlet for their views, which is more than most everybody else.

Have at it you boys! Just remember that FCC regulations and those federal obscene broadcasting laws are taken seriously, even in other liberal places like New York, Chicago and Los Angeles.

Norse and his gang would of begun serving hard federal prison time, for their FRSC crimes, the first time they were caught by the FCC and gun toting US Marshals. Those "f--k" fines are almost three times the cost of the 100,000+ grand spent on this frivilous trial in San Jose. He doesn't have thast kind of money...

[ April 04, 2007, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: captainkidd1953 ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 04, 2007, 08:08 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:

Then-Councilman Tim Fitzmaurice interrupted Krohn to ask Norse to leave the meeting, saying the salute was an insult to the "dignity of the body".

Oh man. That's too easy.
[Smile]

It is kind of cute to hear them talk about the 'dignity' of the council. At least they didn't put the words to bad folk music.

I don't think that the nazi salute was a big deal, but I do think that the BS disruption of council meetings is. I can't count the number of times I had to sit around for an hour or two waiting for some moronic activist to be removed from a meeting or unchained from the podium. I have zero respect or interest in the free speech rights of people who regularly shout down opposing views and interfere with public meetings.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 04, 2007, 08:12 AM:
 
Last Friday my wife and I went to dinner downtown.After dinner we went to the bookstore,out in front of the health food store there are benches that I assume are for people who bought food from the health store to sit and eat.It was instead full of homeless persons(and I mean full)Two uniformed officers walked by without saying a word to them(we were walking 20ft behind the officers)when two or three of the homeless started to harrass the officers verbally.To the officers credit, they did not respond to what was obviously an attempt by these individuals to create a situation that certainly would have escalated.It was all I could do to restrain myself from launching into my own verbal assault on them.(My wife by my side kept me from it)The unfortunate part of this scene is that there was also a woman with her three young children behind us,I noticed that as oon as these persons started yelling,it upset the womans children and she turned a left the downtown area.This is just the type of problem we have with SOME of the homeless that frequent downtown.I say some because I feel that most would not be there if they could help it.However after going downtown and seeing the SAME people for YEARS,I have come to the conclusion that it is just not worth going down Pacific Ave anymore.I come in the back way to my favorite mex.rest.and leave the same way.My wife was born and raised here and cannot understand what happened to the downtown she used to know.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 04, 2007, 08:33 AM:
 
Your wife grew up in what used to be a Republican congressional district before 1976. UCSC was the beginning of the end in Santa Cruz and much of this area! City hall was expecting a serious institution of higher learning. What they got was a liberal arts college with radical professors. Only one UC campus does not have a football team. Santa Cruz!

A new UC campus just opened in Merced. They'll go from a red to a blue congressional district before ten years have passed. They'll get more bums and elect another anti-US Government city council that loves useless foreign policy debates too.

Merced county will begin handing out medical marijuana cards and stores will sell bags of weed in that college town; because their 5 stupidvisors will not vote to open cannabis stores in surrounding communities like Los Banos, Gustine and Mendota.

Sound familiar, FlyFisher? "We've all been there before, Deja Vu"...
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 04, 2007, 08:39 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
Merced county will begin handing out medical marijuana cards and stores will sell bags of weed in that college town; because their 5 stupidvisors will not vote to open cannabis stores in surrounding communities like Los Banos, Gustine and Mendota.

Yes, but Real Estate Prices will go through the roof.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 04, 2007, 08:57 AM:
 
quote:
Yes, but Real Estate Prices will go through the roof.
I'll bet they have more problems with expensive rental apartments; because most of the students wanna live off campus and party in their animal houses...
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 09:34 AM:
 
She didn't "go off" on you, she told you drinks where not allowed. They aren't. You broke the rules, again, and where told about it.

That's a lie. You're a liar.

It is also libel.

You are lying to impugn me.

you continue to stay here, where your drug habit is supported for free

Another lie.

For one thing, it isn't free. And for another it is medicine.

Learn to respect the rest of the rules the rest of us have to, Craig, and stop being a drug
addict


Of course, I'm an @$$ who shouldnt' talk to you, belittle you, and I'm sure I should go to hell....

Well, you got something right, at least. [Roll Eyes]

And 800 if by 'misguided' you mean me, don't worry about it. I don't think you behave any more rationally than he does most of the time, and if I regularly spouted the kind of stuff you did I'd be looking for guidance for sure

What I don't understand, if you're all so damned sure I'm wrong and my medicine isn't working, why don't you give me a chance to prove it rather than throwing me into the streets and stealing everything I have?

I will never forget or forgive being told I would have to give up my medicine for a damn (overpriced) roof over my head from your homeless services, ten years after proposition 215 passed. And I will never forget or forgive these past two years of abuse, deprivation and harassment. And now you're dragging me through the courts...

You should be ashamed.

[ April 05, 2007, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 05, 2007, 09:44 AM:
 
PSB- chill dude. You're having a session.
What you are claiming about your personal persecution is BS and you know it.
You are one of many nameless faces that society has to step around each day. If you're gonna act like a door mat, the people will treat you as such. You want better, you'll have to earn it. That's just the way it is and it's certainly nothing so personal as you would have people believe.
Maintaining an abusive and un-pleasant demeanor, just because you have the right to, is still not a smart thing if you ever want to improve your lot.
IMHO- you suck up your own whining and couldn't live without it. You have no incentive to improve because you actually enjoy your plight. It gives you an excuse for all your short-comings.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 09:46 AM:
 
Hi Cagey - Welome to my side of the line of Compassion, glad to have you here. You are correct in that the "medicine" is not working for old PSB.

If you really believed that you would help me prove it by giving me access to all the services and resources everyone else has, rather than tossing me in the street and harassing me to death and stealing everything I have a dragging me through the courts and constantly and unceasingly ridculing me...

...if you were human, just the least bit human, you would be ashamed.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 09:49 AM:
 
PSB- chill dude. You're having a session.

No I'm not, but you would gladly goad me into one, wouldn't you?

You should be ashamed.

Oh, and ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 05, 2007, 09:59 AM:
 
Therein lies your problem PSB.
I am neither responsible for you nor particularly interested in your plight. I have my own life to manage. Something you would do well to copy.
Your concept of reality where there is someone in the world assigned to help you have a good life is hurting you far more than any medical problems you are treating with pot.
You have become what your thoughts led you to become. Just like all of us. Enjoy your choices and quit whining. YOU are the only living human who is responsible for YOU! Be an adult.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 10:42 AM:
 
I am neither responsible for you nor particularly interested in your plight. I have my own life to manage. Something you would do well to copy.
Your concept of reality where there is someone in the world assigned to help you have a good life is hurting you far more than any medical problems you are treating with pot.


Sit on it and spin...

...my concept of reality is that it is wrong to discriminate against me because I'm a medical marijuana patient (particularly in Santa Cruz), deny me services, and then scream "you're medicine isn't working" when I express a little righteous anger.

And YOU are responsible for that.

Sit on it and SPIN.

[ April 05, 2007, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 05, 2007, 11:09 AM:
 
Most of the discrimination that you encounter is based on you acting like a jerk with these self-indulgent tantrums and not on being a MM patient. It's why I've lost interest in helping you other than storing that stuff. It has nothing to do with your pot use and everything to do with the way that you talk to all of us here. There's thousands of homeless people out there to help, so why should anyone bother with an unpleasant immature brat when they don't have to?
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 05, 2007, 11:18 AM:
 
Hi cagey- I think PSBs problem is that he keeps insisting that his plight is MY fault.
When one uses strangers to blame for decisions they've made themself, then they have no interest in reality or remedy. Both are impossible until one takes responsibility for their own actions.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 05, 2007, 11:27 AM:
 
Yours, mine, or anyone in the world's except his own. I can handle wasting my time, or getting yelled at abusively, but not both. It was worth a shot, but I'd rather help people who will at least try to help themselves or at a minumum be pleasant.

(And before anyone jumps in to congratulate me, I still think a few of you vent your own problems at him in such a sick way that I think that you need more help than he does. I make my decisions my own way, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with what anyone else thinks.)
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 05, 2007, 11:34 AM:
 
I didn't intend to congratulate you. It's not a good thing when a kind heart is abused to the point it gives up. PSB had a golden opportunity to change his life, but as I said, I think he prefers playing the victim to any solution that would require him to accomplish something for himself.
His worst enemy is PSB, and unfortunately, he also gives a bad name to all the earnest homeless who desperately want and appreciate some help.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 05, 2007, 11:38 AM:
 
I'm sorry Jgun - that wasn't aimed at you at all. I should have proofread it to be more clear. I meant the people that make sick comments about suicide, etc.
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 05, 2007, 11:45 AM:
 
I knew that. I was just speaking my piece. [Smile]
 
Posted by Ditto (Member # 2132) on April 05, 2007, 03:46 PM:
 
PSB Moans:

quote:
if you're all so damned sure I'm wrong and my medicine isn't working, why don't you give me a chance to prove it rather than throwing me into the streets and stealing everything I have?

WTF? [Confused]

Ah yes. Weed is the cure all....All you kiddies listen good. PSB is your brain on drugs!
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 03:48 PM:
 
It's why I've lost interest in helping you other than storing that stuff. It has nothing to do with your pot use and everything to do with the way that you talk to all of us here.

But you all get to talk to me any way you want? And do anything up to and including forcing me to go so far into debt I'll never be able to get out hoping to score some kind of 'intervention'?

You get to call me a liar repeatedly, deprive me of sleep, terrorize me, harass me, etc...?

ROT IN HELL.

It is abundantly clear to me that anything that has been done has been soley to separate me from my medicine. You said yourself something about how YOU would spend every penny you had on a motel and those miserable malicious a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s at homeless services knew exactly what they were doing and what they were forcing me to do.

SO ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

All I have is words. I don't have the power to f_u_c_k you over like you f_u_c_k_e_d me over.

SO ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

I don't have the power to deprive you of sleep and harass you into hysterics and take all your money and drag you trough the courts. And I'm too decent a person to do that.

SO ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

[ April 05, 2007, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 03:54 PM:
 
Most of the discrimination that you encounter is based on you acting like a jerk with these self-indulgent tantrums and not on being a MM patient.

And that's a god damned lie.

They told me point blank TWICE that in order to get transitional shelter I would have to give up my medicine.

ALL of the discrimination I've encountered is because I'm a medical marijuana patient, I'm not ashamed of it, and I refuse to 'admit' I'm an addict (because I am not) and go into one of your god damned programs.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 05, 2007, 03:55 PM:
 
*yawns

I can't believe you don't bore yourself to death with this sh!t. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 03:56 PM:
 
When one uses strangers to blame for decisions they've made themself, then they have no interest in reality or remedy.

I'm not the one that told me I couldn't go on the church groups, after I had signed on. I'm not the one that refused me transtional housing...TWICE.

SO ROT IN HELL YOU GOD DAMNED LIAR.
 
Posted by greaves (Member # 1870) on April 05, 2007, 03:58 PM:
 
R-E-S-E-N-T-M-E-N-T

It's a b!tch, isn't it.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 03:59 PM:
 
PSB had a golden opportunity to change his life, but as I said, I think he prefers playing the victim to any solution that would require him to accomplish something for himself.

What a lying piece of crap you are. I know, all I have to do is give up my medicine...and if I don't you get to do anything short of killing me (and even that, in the long run) and it's my fault.

ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 05, 2007, 04:01 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
... those miserable malicious a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s at homeless services knew exactly what they were doing and what they were forcing me to do.

Give me a break!

They didn't force you to do anything. They offered you accomodations at the Armory that you found unacceptable. You played a game of emotional blackmail ("give me accomadations with the church groups or I'll spend all of my money on motels and it will be your fault") and you lost.

You are the one who chose to reject the Armory and spend all of your money on motels instead. How did you expect it to work out?
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 05, 2007, 04:02 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
[i All I have is words. I don't have the power to f_u_c_k you over like you f_u_c_k_e_d me over.
SO ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.
SO ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

I'm gonna call you on that PSB. I'm saying you don't "have words"- I'm claiming that you only have- let me count them again- 6 words that you keep using over and over.
A little un-solicited advice for you- if you really did learn to use words better, then you could keep right on verbally assaulting us and we would all be proud of you for the improvement in the quality of your vocabulary.

Learning the fine points of crafted insult would give you staying power. People would listen longer- to your benefit, I assume.
At any rate- I'm still too busy managing my own life's demons and delights to take on your cause. You're on your own, bud.
Best of luck!
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 05, 2007, 04:06 PM:
 

They didn't force you to do anything. They offered you accomodations at the Armory that you found unacceptable.


They gave me a choice of NOT having my medicine for over 12 hours with a psychiatric disability in a hell hole or spending money I didn't have in a motel you god damned *******s.

And calling the armory 'accomodations' is like ... well, I can't think of anything that ridiculous.

And they made it clear I was going to be separated from my medicine in that (dangerous, particularly for me) environment and until I did they would not let me go on the church groups.

SO ROT IN HELL YOU LYING SACK OF S_H_I_T.

[ April 05, 2007, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 05, 2007, 04:09 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:

They gave me a choice of NOT having my medicine for over 12 hours with a psychiatric disability in a hell hole or spending money I didn't have in a motel you god damned *******s.

12 whole hours without pot? The *******s!

So what triggered you today Craig?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 05, 2007, 04:16 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by jgun:
Learning the fine points of crafted insult would give you staying power. People would listen longer

You're absolutely right - the quality of insults around here has declined tremendously. I think we desperately need you, crazy, mak, denim, yoke and jdam to have an old-time flame war and remind everyone how it's really done if you want to keep it going for months on end without boring everyone to tears. All we ever hear any more around here are garden-variety 'liar', 'idiot', 'stupid' boring ones. And 'Rot in Hell', of course.

But then again it's almost Easter. Something weird always happens then.

[ April 05, 2007, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 05, 2007, 04:53 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
12 whole hours without pot?

And then, to top it all, some refer to him as an addict. The indignity!
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 05, 2007, 06:58 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
[QB But then again it's almost Easter. Something weird always happens then.[/QB]

I never thought of that before, but you're right- there's something about springtime that has that "full moon" feeling about it.
And weird things are 50% perception, after all. [Smile]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 05, 2007, 07:35 PM:
 
Never mind...I guess you had to be there. Twice. If it doesn't happen a third time, I'll explain the joke then. [Smile]
 
Posted by matty (Member # 1111) on April 05, 2007, 07:46 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
All we ever hear any more around here are garden-variety 'liar', 'idiot', 'stupid' boring ones. And 'Rot in Hell', of course.

KG, you couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

[Eek!] [Wink] [Big Grin]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 05, 2007, 08:05 PM:
 
Awwwwww thanks matty, I love you too [Smile]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 06, 2007, 12:11 AM:
 
His entire life revolves around MARIJUANA. Weed this. Pot that. You wanna smoke dope? Then get of your @ss and help with the crops. The Corral's won't give you no medicine; cuz you might get some dirt under those finger nails?

You'd think that our PSB would be looking for a grow house and get paid for living there too. Anybody can water the plants, split the money with the owners and get all of the cannabis he will ever need.

It's no big secret, that some houses are being rented in rural parts of Santa Cruz county, for growing weeds. I remember reading about one tenent near DeLaveaga Park. They paid him union gardener's wages, threw in some bonus bags of weed and paid those utility bills.

And no living in a leaky tent; where you must worry about the police or rangers trashing the camp sites either.

If the police come, just tell them you're a homeless squatter; who got tired of tickets and getting hassled downtown! "Hey man, I don't even know who owns the house".

There is a a lot of ways of getting MARIJUANA without telling the world to ROT IN HELL...
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 06, 2007, 12:48 AM:
 
Well Craig, as I've been saying, the 501(c)(3) Laws exist primarily to weed out the judgmental harpies - those who get their kicks by using their money and position to help the poor and unfortunate "understand their sin" and accept their resultant "proper" place in life.

But, as I've also been saying, "Leadership's" Status Quo Oriented and often Government Connected Santa Cruz Area 501(c)(3)s seem intent to "Choose Not To Follow" both the Letter and Intent of those quite clear and specific Laws and Rules.

But, just as I would try to cure global warming by trying to moisten and cool down some of the spots we know are getting hotter and dryer right now - I would assault this local epidemic of Government connected 501(c)(3) Racketeering by first investigating the keg of worms that's already been kicked over in this room: yes, the "BCA Issue" can reveal some of the slimy "official" tentacles around here.
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 06, 2007, 07:38 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
It's why I've lost interest in helping you other than storing that stuff. It has nothing to do with your pot use and everything to do with the way that you talk to all of us here.

But you all get to talk to me any way you want? And do anything up to and including forcing me to go so far into debt I'll never be able to get out hoping to score some kind of 'intervention'?

_____________
Nobody here did that to you, Craig. I don't think anyone involved in your latest diatribe has anything to do with law enforcement. Get it straight
_____________

You get to call me a liar repeatedly, deprive me of sleep, terrorize me, harass me, etc...?

_____________
Who here has directly awakened you?
Who here has directly terrorized you?
If you don't like the way people here talk to you, you do have the option of not visiting this website. After all, nobody here can be talked down to about spewing their beliefs if you honestly believe we should have to listen to you verbal abuse, do you?

_____________
ROT IN HELL.

It is abundantly clear to me that anything that has been done has been soley to separate me from my medicine.
_____________
Gee, this doesn't sound like a textbook addict, does it?

Change 'medicine' to 'heroin', 'alcohol', 'dope', etc.
_____________

You said yourself something about how YOU would spend every penny you had on a motel and those miserable malicious a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s at homeless services knew exactly what they were doing and what they were forcing me to do.

SO ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

_____________

Oh, gee... Does it seem like people are being two faced to you? And extending your plight? So they can watch it unfold? Gee, Craig, go reread my posts and see where I said they where doing that?

Of course, I was half kidding, Dude.... I honestly hope nobody here is consciously doing that to you, that's malicious. BUT, as you see, some people seem to agree with you, then disagree with you, when public opinion doesn't go with the agreeing with you part, huh? Gee, someone might have pointed that out to you in the last month or so.

I'm just a dummy, though. Don't listen to Toll.. He goes against the Santa Cruz grain. Tell the truth, as you see it, and don't sugarcoat it to help someone feel better.
_____________

All I have is words. I don't have the power to f_u_c_k you over like you f_u_c_k_e_d me over.

SO ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

I don't have the power to deprive you of sleep and harass you into hysterics and take all your money and drag you trough the courts. And I'm too decent a person to do that.
_____________
The way you talk to those who attempt to help you show that your statement above is bovine feces.

Have a good one, Craig. Again, any family willing to help? I'm extending the bus ticket anywhere you can go and make a go of it. No refunds, but it will be one way, no charge to you, etc., etc., etc. Think about it, dude.. You could be ON the bus today, in a WARM seat, and within a week, be ANYWERE in the US in a nice warm bed. And I WON'T pull that homeless services bull**** of verifying it. You tell me where someone might help you get off the streets and I'll buy it, cuz you are RIGHT. Nobody here is really going to try to help you. Look at all the homeless around here now.. If there was help to be done, there wouldn't be the homeless populace, would there? (you can't honestly believe that sh1t).

--Toll_Free

SO ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.


 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 06, 2007, 07:40 AM:
 
The next time PSB posts his ravings-lets all just ignore it!Maybe he will just stop posting if he no longer has an audience.BTW as I said before I am so tired of you Craig.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 06, 2007, 08:22 AM:
 
quote:
"judgmental harpies....who get their kicks by [helping] the poor and unfortunate "understand their sin" and [therefor] accept their resultant "proper" place in life.

 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 06, 2007, 08:27 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by BillBo:
quote:
"judgmental harpies....who get their kicks by [helping] the poor and unfortunate "understand their sin" and [therefor] accept their resultant "proper" place in life.

That's a meaningless statement.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 06, 2007, 08:50 AM:
 
Just look in the mirror.

If you see true perfection, then cast your stone....

 -
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 06, 2007, 09:16 AM:
 
Are you sure you're supposed to be taking that medication? Maybe you'd better check that label again...
 
Posted by Sol (Member # 1130) on April 06, 2007, 09:58 AM:
 
FF, I concure...
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 06, 2007, 10:07 AM:
 
http: //www.startrekdb.se/avsnitt/ds9_bilder/
let-he-who-is-without-sin-1.jpg

JGun, if you are without sin, then cast your stone.

However, you normally act as a "Partisan Operative" in this Forum - which means, you're "Conflicted" buddy - as such, you are hardly "Without Sin".

So, ease up on the rock throwing.
 
Posted by Cruzerman (Member # 2235) on April 06, 2007, 10:11 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by BillBo:
However, you normally act as a "Partisan Operative" in this Forum - which means, you're "Conflicted" buddy - as such, you are hardly "Without Sin".[/QB]

So...if someone does not agree with you they are conflicted and a sinner?
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 06, 2007, 10:55 AM:
 
quote:
So...if someone does not agree with you they are conflicted and a sinner?
No, but Government Employed Partisan Operatives are "Conflicted" by definition in many different ways.

And yes, I think that Americans need to invoke a new "Hatch Act" to take these clearly conflicted Government Employed "Pork Swilling" Partisan "Stone Throwers" back out of the National Debate.

Want to see them up close? Just follow the money trail.

Delve into the the relationship between the multi-national military contractors (including those recently caught and fined $100 mil for selling our secrets to the Enemy) - the Congressional Pork Distribution System - and the professional Military Officers who actually composed this "strategy" for Iraq (the esteemed Generals who our Texan President has been "Listening To").

Who is really making the huge profits because we're loosing all this expensive equipment to a hopelessly outclassed opponent, instead of using our Military effectively to just go ahead and win the War?

How is that money being spread around?

Freezers full of cold cash?

-----------------

The Hatch Act of 1939 is a United States federal law whose main provision is to prohibit federal employees (civil servants) from engaging in partisan activity - (stopping them from stealing us blind and then selling it to the Enemy like they're doing today)
 
Posted by Cruzerman (Member # 2235) on April 06, 2007, 11:25 AM:
 
I Rove a Government Employed Partisan Operative?
 
Posted by Cruzerman (Member # 2235) on April 06, 2007, 11:26 AM:
 
Sorry...missed the s.

Is Rove a Government Employed Partisan Operative?
 
Posted by jgun (Member # 1014) on April 06, 2007, 11:48 AM:
 
And how!
He's also in charge of making sure the Justice Dept operates as political hit men for bush.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 06, 2007, 01:12 PM:
 
quote:
Is Rove a Government Employed Partisan Operative?
I hear that he's an "advisor" and Bush's long time campaign manager, but, I really have no idea who pays him or what he does.

But, why? Because of his new Rap CD?

And, more importantly, why try to squeeze out of the serious questions raised?

Afraid, or already know, that the Dirty Demos did it?

Otherwise, let's cut the foreplay and delve into the the relationship between the multi-national military contractors (including those recently caught and fined $100 mil for selling our secrets to the Enemy) - the Congressional Pork Distribution System - and the professional Military Officers who actually composed this "strategy" for Iraq - the esteemed Generals who our impressionable young President has been "Listening To".

Who is making the huge profits from loosing all this expensive equipment to a hopelessly outclassed opponent, instead of just going ahead and wining the War in the first few weeks?

How is that money being spread around?

Freezers full of cold cash?

I don't care which Party goes down because of this, I want "THIS" to go down on whichever parties are responsible for it.
 
Posted by Cruzerman (Member # 2235) on April 06, 2007, 02:59 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by BillBo:
quote:
Is Rove a Government Employed Partisan Operative?
I hear that he's an "advisor" and Bush's long time campaign manager, but, I really have no idea who pays him or what he does.

.

Washington, D.C.: This may be a dumb question but who pays Karl Rove's salary, the Republican Party or me? Because if I'm paying, he's not doing a whole lot for me.

Mike Allen: Mr. Rove is a White House official. As of June, he was one of 17 officials making the top salary of $157,000.

_______________________

London, UK: Following up on my earlier question: would the same go for **** Morris? He was also both political and policy yet the accolades clearly don't come trickling in. What is the biggest difference between Morris and Rove?

Mike Allen: **** Morris provided advice about governing to President Clinton as a consultant but was not a government official.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 06, 2007, 06:41 PM:
 
quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - ITT Corp. has agreed to plead guilty and pay a penalty of up to $100 million for illegally exporting night-vision goggle component parts to China, Singapore and Britain in 2001, the U.S. Justice Department said on Tuesday.

It said ITT had agreed to plead guilty to one count of making the exports without first obtaining a license or written authorization from the State Department.

The company also will plead guilty to one count of leaving out material facts from required reports on arms exports between 2000 and 2004, making the reports misleading, the department said.

The Justice Department said ITT would pay a $2 million criminal fine, forfeit $28 million as the proceeds of its illegal actions, and pay a $20 million penalty to the State Department.

Payment of a $50 million deferred prosecution penalty will be suspended for five years, department officials said. ITT can pay the $50 million or invest that same amount in developing more advanced night-vision technology.

The officials called the total one of the largest penalties ever in a criminal case. They said ITT would become the first major defense contractor convicted of a criminal violation of the Arms Export Control Act.

“ITT’s exportation of this sensitive technology to China and other nations jeopardized our national security and the safety of our military men and women on the battlefield,” Assistant Attorney General Kenneth Wainstein said in a statement. …


My my, doesn't that sound like a nice Political Compromise (instead of just hanging the "Leadership" traitors) - kind of like we're OK, you're OK about Congress and their "War Lite" declarations.

Let's cut the foreplay and delve into the the relationship between these military contractors - the Congressional Pork Distribution System - and the professional Military Officers who actually composed this "strategy" for Iraq (the esteemed Generals who our impressionable young President has been "Listening To").

Who is really making the huge profits from loosing all this expensive equipment to a hopelessly outclassed opponent, instead of just going ahead and wining the War in the first few weeks?

How is that money being spread around?

Freezers full of cold cash?

I don't care which Party goes down because of this, I want "THIS" to go down on whichever parties are responsible for it.

Frankly, I don't see how one could call themselves a patriot while taking any other position about this type of issue. (and, that includes the choice to just ignore such issues)
 
Posted by 1-800 Toll Free (Member # 2029) on April 06, 2007, 07:20 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
His entire life revolves around MARIJUANA. Weed this. Pot that. You wanna smoke dope? Then get of your @ss and help with the crops. The Corral's won't give you no medicine; cuz you might get some dirt under those finger nails?

You'd think that our PSB would be looking for a grow house and get paid for living there too. Anybody can water the plants, split the money with the owners and get all of the cannabis he will ever need.

It's no big secret, that some houses are being rented in rural parts of Santa Cruz county, for growing weeds. I remember reading about one tenent near DeLaveaga Park. They paid him union gardener's wages, threw in some bonus bags of weed and paid those utility bills.

And no living in a leaky tent; where you must worry about the police or rangers trashing the camp sites either.

If the police come, just tell them you're a homeless squatter; who got tired of tickets and getting hassled downtown! "Hey man, I don't even know who owns the house".

There is a a lot of ways of getting MARIJUANA without telling the world to ROT IN HELL...

The problem is everyone in the Medical field has discovered Craig is an A$$hole and nobody wants anything to do with him.

He is >>so<< flamboyant about his "issues" that he is a bust, just waiting to happen. After all, he is in the position he is in because he doesn't know discretion. Who in their right mind in the marijuana industry would want a bigmouth on their payroll anyway?

--Toll_Free
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 06, 2007, 09:02 PM:
 
Yes, I've met him, yes he's real, and if I came up with as many paranoid conspiracy theories as you did, I'd check myself into the hospital. I mean, really, Al [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on April 06, 2007, 09:06 PM:
 
hi al, your suspicions about psb being a troll were shared by my for several months. i decided to suspend my sense of reality since cagey has been helping him out and has met him and his web page and story seems far too unreal not to be somewhat true. my last comments to him about taking responsibility for his really outrageous and creepy behavior to hosts and librarians and police and moving to santa barbara or elsewhere have to do with the fact that he may be one of those folks that are restricted from going downtown...or he may be sent for mental health help. he doesn't seem to get it that he may become persona non grata, or what ever the phrase is, real quick. there may be no way for him to collect the free bus pass that some have offered. the guy is rude, obnoxious and obviously getting his quotient of attention here, the worse the better.

[ April 06, 2007, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: conSCious ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 06, 2007, 10:21 PM:
 
quote:
And, KG, Since you seem to be the ony one of us here who's actually met him, did you really? I mean, is PSB real? Is he a figment? Are the two of you, or the too of you compiling data for some purpose? Or is it all in fun?
Come on, Al. Read some of our old threads. They share a common medical problem. She is serious about dealing with the situation and goes on living a normal life. Azzholes like Winston and Steve Hartmann hassle her for doing this!

He does nothing but smoke marijuana every day and feel sorry himself. Dope will do this for so long. Then it wears off. The rest of the world can rot in hell because they won't permit the PSB to get stoned wherever and whenever he feels like hiding from his problems...

[ April 06, 2007, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: captainkidd1953 ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 05:26 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
Come on, Al. Read some of our old threads.

What, Capt - you expect Siberia Al to do some research and get a fact or 2 under his belt before he accuses me of scamming the entire board, including taking a fair amount of their money? That's not his style - facts only get in the way of spreading rumors and lies about people. Dishonest, untrustworthy people imagine that they see that stuff everywhere, I suppose.

Al, is there anything else that you and your buddies would like to toss out there this week? I wouldn't mind getting it all over with at once.

[ April 07, 2007, 06:00 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 07, 2007, 06:06 AM:
 
Both of you have told us what the problem is more than once. You deal with it in different ways. Al has been here long enough to know that already...
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 07, 2007, 06:20 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
quote:
Originally posted by captainkidd1953:
Come on, Al. Read some of our old threads.

What, Capt - you expect Siberia Al to do some research and get a fact or 2 under his belt before he accuses me of scamming the entire board, including taking a fair amount of their money? That's not his style - facts only get in the way of spreading rumors and lies about people. Dishonest, untrustworthy people imagine that they see that stuff everywhere, I suppose.

Al, is there anything else that you and your buddies would like to toss out there this week? I wouldn't mind getting it all over with at once.

The personal attacks on Cagey are outrageous. She is considerate of everyone here, and God bless her, actually helps PSB. Like most here, I'm sick of the little creep and his ungrateful, nasty style. He is his own worst enemy. I agree with whoever said he is homeless by choice. I think he's stays in that lifestyle to get filler material for the book he wants to do on being homeless.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 06:29 AM:
 
Thanks, pdskee - I don't know what it is with these guys and why they won't stop with this crap. Sometimes I think it's that the progressives that are responsible for making decisions wouldn't give them the time of day, so they go after me to make themselves feel better about their political impotence. Other times I think it's that they just can't handle the existence of women that don't bow and scrape in their presence or ooze maternal vibes. Maybe it's that I don't have a lot of sympathy for the endless wooden leg stories that they use to justify unwarranted attacks on people, because I think adults need to try harder than that to control themselves. I don't know what the hell it is, but it sure is getting old. Trying to make it so miserable for me here so that I stop posting again is only making me more stubborn anyway. I wish they would just go crawl back under their rocks and get over it.
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 07, 2007, 06:45 AM:
 
I don't think anyone should be ridiculed or belittled for showing compassion, whether those criticizing, believes the recipient of those kindnesses are deserving or not. I guess that the addage "No good deed goes unpunished" is definately true around here. It's a shame really.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 06:58 AM:
 
Thanks, Cass - it's nice to see you back.

I don't think this is all about Craig. Al even chipped in to get him a phone at one point. If it was just about local politics I think that they'd be going after Yoke too, although the digs from Al did seem to start around the time of the Council race when I didn't come out in support for his pick. It seems a lot more personal than that to me. I don't think that it's just that they aren't used to women like me - Walter is older than all of us and he doesn't lose it when I disagree with him. He just gives it back to me like he does anyone else. I don't know why they won't stop this.

[ April 07, 2007, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 07, 2007, 08:05 AM:
 
Thanks Cagey,

Three more surgeries and I can get rid of this damn walker.

When you have this many different personalities,with opposing politics, belief systems, weighing in on so topics and levels, tempers flare and somebody ends up taking the flack. My own turns in the hot seat have made me take some steps backwards, but no one has managed to drive me away. My opinion is as valid as the next guy's and so is yours. Try not to let it ruin your day or run you off. My feelings have been hurt plenty but I have learned to roll with it.

I have nothing against Craig or Dan but I also understand why people have issues with them. They just don't happen to be my issues and I have empathy for both, even if I don't agree with some of what they say and do. Dan is definately persona non gratis with many of you here and not without provocation. He is also my friend.

I won't defend him to any of you but I am not going to bail on him either. I hope I will be judged for myself and not because I'm not on the right side of a personality conflict. Dan has always been a friend and a gentleman to me. I know you can't stand my friend but you are the kind of person who sees and tells things fairly, so you understand where I'm coming from. You will get no problem or judgement from me.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 08:07 AM:
 
Thanks Cass - I understand. Hey - I really like Robot [Wink]
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 07, 2007, 08:09 AM:
 
Cassy, nice to see you back and best of luck with your recovery. There a far too few women here, and they add a needed balance for the rest of us 'know-it-alls". And I'll be honest with you, I don't really know it all, just most of it!

So you creeps out there, lighten up on these wonderful women. We need to hear more from Heather also.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 07, 2007, 08:12 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
Thanks Cass - I understand. Hey - I really like Robot [Wink]

I like Robot too, not his Politics, and that's OK; I just like his style. Even Master, he is far right, but that's OK, he doesn't seem to dwell in personal attacks, just the issues. That cat animation he found the other day was fabulous.
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 07, 2007, 08:28 AM:
 
Thank you pdskee,

Yes, we do need more women in this heavily testosterone laden zone. Cagey has been carrying the torch for the rest of us lately, and doing a fine job. Heather is around, but quite busy of late. It wouldn't surprise me though if she weighed into the forum sometime today.

We got snow today here in corn country.... how about you?
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 07, 2007, 08:56 AM:
 
Cassy, we got snow Thursday here, 8 inches! I hate winter, but this one was easy. I know from some of the brain dead experts here that there is no such thing as global warming, but SOMETHING is giving us much easier winters, which I love.

Unfortunately for the women, some of the loser bullies here probably find it easier to pick on them. I'll bring out the reserve artillery for these droids.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 09:12 AM:
 
Not that it justifies how they behave, but a lot of it is caused by not being anonymous, I think, because then real life politics and issues get dragged into things. This never, ever happens on other boards that I hang out on, and I don't know if it's because of anonymity, or if it's just the dynamic here and the fact that those are international places so there is no local politics for people to have a stake in.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 07, 2007, 09:43 AM:
 
quote:
I don't think this is all about Craig. Al even chipped in to get him a phone at one point. If it was just about local politics I think that they'd be going after Yoke too, although the digs from Al did seem to start around the time of the Council race when I didn't come out in support for his pick.
It isn't just politics! Haven't seen much of Yoke for a few days either. Craig doesn't worry about city hall politics except for medical marijuana isses and his collection of camping tickets.

You explained quite clearly that you do not live in the city of Santa Cruz and don't get involved with our municipal elections either. Taking the neutral position the thing to do, and only a jerk-off would get into a fight over it.

They might find it easier to attack a semi-public figure. There is certain amount of risk in going after the anomynous people instead...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 09:54 AM:
 
I'm not even a semi-public figure. I haven't done anything in 7 or 8 years that would qualify me as one.

This is depressing, and the sun is starting to break through. I don't want to think about it anymore today. Maybe Craig will come yell at us and change the subject [Wink]
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 07, 2007, 10:15 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Al:
And, KG, Since you seem to be the ony one of us here who's actually met him, did you really? I mean, is PSB real? Is he a figment? Are the two of you, or the too of you compiling data for some purpose? Or is it all in fun?

Hmmm. We seem to have an epidemic of miserable pricks around here. First Winston, now Al.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 10:43 AM:
 
I just know I'm going to regret finding out that the word prick isn't censored here. [Wink]
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 10:44 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra2:
...Dan is definately persona non gratis with many of you here and not without provocation. He is also my friend.

I won't defend him to any of you but I am not going to bail on him either. I hope I will be judged for myself and not because I'm not on the right side of a personality conflict…

Who decided it’s a “personality conflict”? Winston? I would have enjoyed hearing what Jack Frisbee knows about global warning. I can’t think of anybody who had a “personality conflict” with Jack.

What do you mean by “I am not going to bail on him”? Does that mean you, like Al, will continue to encourage the participation on this forum of a thug who has repeatedly issued actionable threats and slander here? Maybe you think that’s a sign of friendship and loyalty. To those of us who have been threatened by the thug, it’s an irresponsible act of hostile codependence.
 
Posted by matty (Member # 1111) on April 07, 2007, 10:57 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard: Does that mean you, like Al, will continue to encourage the participation on this forum of a thug who has repeatedly issued actionable threats and slander here? Maybe you think that’s a sign of friendship and loyalty. To those of us who have been threatened by the thug, it’s an irresponsible act of hostile codependence.[/QB]
 -

 -
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on April 07, 2007, 10:59 AM:
 
ok everyone. step back, take a breath and enjoy this fine day, whether/weather snowy or sunny. maybe al is not having a great day or time lately. maybe he is just cranky. maybe the women are too sensitive (how many times have you heard that one cagey and cass?). maybe it's just that it's a small town and we're all inbread. anyway, it is a season of rebirth, energy and regeneration. let's enjoy, if only for today and maybe tomorrow. then, let's go for the throat!

hi cass. hope you are doing better. nice to see you back. and cagey, i'd bet you run circles around most of us old farts as far as productivity and ability. i think you were and are an invaluable member of society.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 11:17 AM:
 
Thanks, conSCious [Smile]

And just speaking for myself, I don't interpret Cass's staying out of it as hostile at all.
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 07, 2007, 11:24 AM:
 
Lward,

I'm sorry that you see that my failure to turn on someone who has been decent to me is a validation of anything he might have done to anyone else here. I believe I said that I understood why some people were angry with him.

I said that I would not bail on Dan, meaning that I am not going to grab a torch and a pitch fork or pretend I don't know him because he is a pariah with many here. I was being forthcoming, not choosing sides.
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 07, 2007, 11:26 AM:
 
........And thank you Cagey and ConSCious
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 12:35 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra2:
I would not bail on Dan, meaning that I am not going to grab a torch and a pitch fork

Did I ask about torches and pitchforks? Any private comforts you and Winston provide one another are great.

I asked if not "bailing" on Winston meant you would continue to support his participation on the forum. I suspect you do, but I don't know.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 07, 2007, 12:44 PM:
 
The joy for me in the forum is that I get to interact with so many different and interesting people, whenever I take a break from work, without having to schedule and meet in person.

The difficulty for me is that it's all so personality-based. Just within the last week, I was attacked, out of nowhere -- twice within a day -- for my type of employment and income level, and no one had a single word to say about it.

It seems like the standards for acceptable behavior here are a function of some constantly shifting popularity contest than of any actual expectations of adult action. If one happens to be well-liked by the combination of people posting that particular week, personal attacks are "unacceptable;" if one isn't, they're just fine. And THAT, in turn, gives rise to a situation in which anyone can be as abusive to anyone else at any time as they wish, and whether they get away with it or not is an entirely random condition.

[ April 07, 2007, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Mahakala ]
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on April 07, 2007, 01:10 PM:
 
quote:
Any private comforts you and Winston provide one another are great.

and any public comforts are great too. that's the really neat thing about free speech...you can do it in public. and it's especially neat when people find something between each other that clicks for them.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 01:35 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by conSCious:
that's the really neat thing about free speech...

Where is Jack's free speech? Without provocation, Winston threatened to track him (and presumably his family) down. That's censorship, conSCious, not free speech.
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on April 07, 2007, 02:18 PM:
 
sorry, winston didn't break any laws did he? that's the neat thing about free speech. now if jack is lurking out there, he's free to come back. i think it is time to let past dogs lie, don't you? if not, well, then you start looking resentful, bitter and taking up the mantle of victimhood for everyone else. get over it. winston took a big blow too and he keeps on posting and working and living and being functional.

otherwise, what are you going to do about it? it's not my battle, but i find the one sided war that some people have got going on here rather puzzling, humourous and ultimately boring. rise above it and get on with it. [Wink]

in certain respects, cagey has proven herself to have more cojones than some of the guys here. she has taken a lot of blows and deflected them.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 02:31 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by conSCious:
sorry, winston didn't break any laws did he?

Yes, he probably did. Jack chose not to press charges, which is of course the wise thing to do. Being censored by intimidation is preferable to putting your family at further risk by an out-of-control guy.
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on April 07, 2007, 02:38 PM:
 
wow, what law did he break...and how do you know what jack did and didn't do? if he wrote it all down here on the forum i can look it up but it seems as if winston did something that clearly was against the law he would be banished from the forum forever.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 02:43 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by conSCious:
it seems as if winston did something that clearly was against the law he would be banished from the forum forever.

My sentiments exactly.
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on April 07, 2007, 02:46 PM:
 
so, which is it, he didn't do something illegal, or the sentinel refused to do something or both? who decides what winston said was illegal? i'm not an attorney, so i'm curious if you or any of the attorneys out there can clarify?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 03:08 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by conSCious:
so, which is it, he didn't do something illegal, or the sentinel refused to do something or both?

He probably did something illegal, AND the Sentinel refused to do anything.
quote:
who decides what winston said was illegal?
Nobody. Since charges were not pressed, it's a moot point. Nonetheless, Winston effectively censored Jack's participation on the forum by means of an intimidating threat.

But thanks for the lectures on free speech.
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on April 07, 2007, 03:59 PM:
 
i'd never lecture anyone on free speech...i just agree that it is a pretty neat thing, warts and all. however, i do think it has limits on this privately held forum done in complete public especially when it looks like someone is having a meltdown or says things that shouldn't be said or put forth in regards to children, or some other areas of discussion.

all i wanted to know was how illegal winston's behaviour was or wasn't so i wouldn't repeat it. thanks for the clarification.

and al, nice bomb you threw!
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 04:02 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Al:
...I was more, very lightly, toying with a concept...I should have been more clear.

Just to be clear, when you infer that I'm hacking your (or is it Winston's?) computer, are you lightly toying, or being serious?
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 07, 2007, 04:54 PM:
 
LWard,

I know you are upset about Jack Frisbee as I would be about anyone who is savaged becuase they said something someone else didn't like. Is that what's in store for me if I don't join your hate fest against Dan? Two wrongs don't make a right and this is a public forum where grownups discuss issues and sometimes disagree vehemently, and truly regrettable things are said.

Are you going to say you never crossed the line? I have,and was ashamed when I lost control. Actually, if my husband was apprised of your remark about Winston and I giving each other comfort HE would say YOU crossed the line. I would not tell him because what goes on in the forum stays in the forum and I am not going to stay in the kitchen if I can't take the heat.Compared to what gets slung around here it was nothing. Even if you had said something less ambiguous and truly awful,it wouldn't be the first time I was slapped around the forum because I didn't go with the flow and I would be in good company if I was. Several people here have been savaged by unneccessary roughness here recently and I would be in good company.

Also,this is not my real life. If I don't like the tone,I can come back later or ignore the offending thread. I think the thing that made me feel the most foolish when I lost it, is that I was getting angry at people that I had never met. Rediculous. I am not Dan and I am not your ememy,and I have no animosity towards you.

I'm sorry Jack Frisbee felt he had to leave in the conflict between himself and Dan, but regarding your question, would I support Dan's continued posting here? You betcha! And I would defend your right to do the same no matter how snarky you get. Last thing I knew it was up to the webmaster to determine who was out of line. I don't like to see anyone bullying anyone but it is not up to me is it? I'm not taking sides in any case. Have a good holiday.

Dan may have said some over the top things but as far as I know,he is the only one being attacked in his real life, through his computer. That,is over the top and something I do not support......ever. Threats on the forum are idle and human, carrying them outside of verbalization is borderline psychotic. Do you support the person who did that? I think better of you than that.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 07, 2007, 05:22 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra2:
...Dan may have said some over the top things but as far as I know,he is the only one being attacked in his real life, through his computer....

What do you mean by 'attacked...through his computer', Cass?
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 07, 2007, 05:22 PM:
 
doesnt surprised to hear this about Winston. shame. but i remember a couple of years ago when POC told me that he knew where i lived and where i worked and that he had no problems going to either my house or work to find me. the sentinel never did anything about that until he eventually pissed everyone off in the forum.
if dan in fact did something to really offend someone...like i said, that doesnt surprise me at all, but then again, i dont know what he did. i see him all the time at the grocery store. he has always been kind to me. especially when i was homeless last year. he was a kind friend. he used to visit me at my old office with his dog Oreo. but winston does (like a lot of us do) have a certain aire about him that might make him jump the gun a bit when provoked. is he still allowed in the forum?
yep...i hope everyone who has the day off tomorrow enjoys it with family, friends, pets, or strangers, and has a great time. if you dont have the day off...that sucks. but enjoy the day at any rate. I myself, am hitting Loch Lomond up and gonna fish the whole darn day. girlfriend is sick in bed and she says i dont make a good nurse. so she told me to get out and go fishing. bummer huh?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 05:39 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra2:
if my husband was apprised of your remark about Winston and I giving each other comfort HE would say YOU crossed the line.

Tell your husband I wasn't using comfort in a biblical sense.
quote:
I'm sorry Jack Frisbee felt he had to leave in the conflict between himself and Dan
I doubt it was a mutual conflict that rendered Jack mute, but the specific threat that Winston leveled about tracking Jack down.
quote:
would I support Dan's continued posting here? You betcha! And I would defend your right to do the same no matter how snarky you get.
If I ever make a threat to track somebody down on this forum, like Winston did Jack, please don't defend my "right" to post here.
quote:
Threats on the forum are idle
I disagree.
quote:
Do you support the person who did that? I think better of you than that.
Did I say I supported hacking? I have no idea if Winston is being hacked. It sounds like you are assuming what he tells you is truth, and that the alleged hacker is somehow connected with this forum. Maybe it is the truth. I have no way of knowing.

If so, I hope the hacker is uncovered and prosecuted. Unless it's Jack, in which case I would wish him happy hacking. BTW, I don't mean to imply that I think Jack is a hacker or that I think Winston is being hacked.
 
Posted by ecliptic (Member # 1484) on April 07, 2007, 06:34 PM:
 
I, too, wondered if Winston is really being hacked. In the thread he started recently, he said, "I've no complaint with those who indulge in extemperaneous self-agrandizement (heck!! I've been guilty of that myself!)..but it remains true that some goofball is still hacking this site, and me personaly. Good thing I'm so well balanced."

By "this site" I assumed he meant the forum, and that seems a bit strange since our last two hacking eruptions (the multiple ID fiasco and the potty mouth from the back woods burp) seem to have long since subsided. I'm not sensing anything going on now. Anyone else think I'm just being naive?

As for someone hacking Winston's home computer, who knows. He hasn't posted enough information for any of us to judge that. Of course, there are probably hundreds (maybe thousands) of people out there trying to turn as many computers as they can into their thralls, so it wouldn't be surprising. All I can say to that is, get better security software.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 07, 2007, 08:13 PM:
 
I ain't got nothin' to hide. Well, except that........ thing. Perhaps Winston has been eating too many whole beef halves. Who knows? They never deliver up in Sector R, after dark. And, don't forget---everything you know is wrong. And, I support what Cass sez. I liked Jack's input, and am sorry he's no longer active. I don't now if any law was violated, but, we'll never know because nobody filed a complaint. Carry on.
 
Posted by LocalYokel (Member # 647) on April 07, 2007, 08:15 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Al:
'clip, there was an occasion, last December, when the jackals were suggesting that Dan might have made up his late wife's suicide, and a piece of info, posted in private e-mail, between me and Dan, made it's way, nearly verbatim, onto this forum. Not long after that, another piece of e-mail between us was used to chide me, in a e-mail from another forumite. Seems to me that somebody here has the skill and the will to bust security. I went to SBC security people, but they could not trace the invasion, without prohibitive expense. All this stuff is routed and re-routed all over the world. So, somebody with the skill can avoid detection, while spying on you, me...anybody.

Uh, hold on there Al. Why can't you ever stick to the facts. It wasn't jackals that were suggesting that Winston's wife suicide story was b.s., it was me speculating that that story was probably b.s. too, after it had become so totally and utterly obvious to anyone with half a brain that Winston was a pathological liar over and over again. He had even joked about his wife's suicide saying he had to get rid of her after he found her hanging around. har-de-har-har. You keep defending him which is cool in that you are loyal to those you choose to be, but you are also dead wrong about him. He is a liar and a phony. I'd bet anything on it.
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 07, 2007, 08:18 PM:
 
I think it would be only fair to put these accusations on the table and let the people that you're talking about defend themselves. The last time you accused someone here of hacking, you said that it was because Lward (I think) knew that Winston claimed to have gone to Hawaii. It was pointed out to you that BikerAttorney had posted that information already on the forum. So that was explained. What other information of yours has been posted out here?
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 07, 2007, 08:26 PM:
 
Hi Mak,

What I know about computers is probably less than anyone else here but Dan said that he was being attacked with computer viruses. Awhile back when there were hostilities and hacker accusations being thrown around I was having inexplicable problems with the forum website myself.

For awhile,when I would try to post anything here, I was booted out of the Sentinel site completely and back to my homepage.I would click back into the Sentinel several times until I was let in and alowed to post. My computer seemed to be working fine and I didn't have problems with any other site. After a while I quit having the problem. Because of this and the experiences of other people here, I don't think Dan is making this up.

If I don't defend you or Cagey or Al or anybody it is not because I condone people attacking any of you but because I want to stay out of other people's squabbles. It is difficult though because I want everyone to treat others and be treated by others, decently. I say nothing because it is neither my problem or my business. Life has been challenging enough in my real life lately to want to seek out problems here. I don't need it or want it. Y'all don't need me to fight your battles for you.

The three of you especially are perfectly capable of handling your own problems. [Wink] I brought up Dan to Cagey as a point of reference as she was dealing with a lot of flack over her support and defense of Craig. I have empathy and friendship for someone else that is unpopular,which makes me very sympathetic to her situation. no one should have their chops busted for being kind. I think everyone deserves kindness and sometimes the most appropriate time to give it to them is when they appear to deserve it the least.



LWard, thank you for clarifying things you said earlier. As I said, I don't have issues with you and I am not unsympathetic to your ire, but I will remain neutral.

I have said all I care to say except to wish all a good holiday with good weather to match.

Happy Easter/Passover/Spring
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 07, 2007, 09:10 PM:
 
Al
Thank you, and may
God bless and keep you too.

Cass
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 07, 2007, 09:20 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Al:
a piece of info, posted in private e-mail, between me and Dan, made it's way, nearly verbatim, onto this forum. Not long after that, another piece of e-mail between us was used to chide me, in a e-mail from another forumite.

Oooh, evidence of duplicitous gossip. Call Homeland Security!
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 07, 2007, 10:47 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra2:
Hi Mak...

Hi Cass! Thanks for the explanation of past computer intrusions. I had a freaky situation myself a couple of years ago in which a SCAN rep suddenly accused me on the phone of using very particular research materials which I had never seen, and then it turned out that those very materials had been sent by a third party prior to the conversation and I got them a few minutes after the phone conversation via email. I remain convinced to this day that a certain long-standing SCAN activist with advanced computer skills had tapped my computer. So I know that kind of personal experience.

quote:
Originally posted by cassandra2:
The three of you especially are perfectly capable of handling your own problems. [Wink]

Actually, Cass, while I understand what you're saying, and was talking about group processes and therefore don't hold you responsible for responding to any particular thing, that's simply not true.

I CANNOT handle it myself when a sick person like Winston accuses me, four or five times over several months, of being a pedophile, without proof or reference.

I CANNOT handle it myself when a sick person like Winston threatens to call the FBI, OSS and CIA on me and get my phone ane email conversations tapped because I'm an "America-hating traitor."

I CANNOT handle it myself when a sick person like Winston threatens me -- as he did Jack Frisbee and several others -- with finding out where I live, recounting that it's getting easier and easier for him to do so, and re-upping his now rusty shooting skills to better effect.

NO one can handle those kinds of things themselves.

And to me, the worst thing about this group -- along, to repeat, with the dozens of good things -- is this repeated pretense that those kinds of disgusting behaviors are "personal disputes" or part of "free speech."

It's not my job to tell anyone else what their values should be; that's their decision. But I have to tell you that if ANYONE did that to you, or anyone else here, I certainly would not shrug it off as something they could handle, because that kind of behavior is not a personal matter, it's a group matter that threatens public participation.

That said, it's always nice to see you here, and happy Easter.

[ April 07, 2007, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Mahakala ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 07, 2007, 11:31 PM:
 
quote:
Just within the last week, I was attacked, out of nowhere -- twice within a day -- for my type of employment and income level.
Hey Mak; this sounds like the azzholes, who have been doing the same thing to Cagey for awhile too.

One left town after more than twenty years of losing his election battles at both the ballot box and in a courtroom.

The other shared his perverted rape fantasies with us on the forum. He worships his guns and plays track em' down and harass people games. The same piece of crap who threated Jack Fribee, then publicly accused me of stalking Cagey last Summer. She called him a liar right here on the forum! Consider the source.

I can call my nephew if I need an electrician! My problems will be fixed on weekends and holidays too. No need do business with a loser even by mistake...

[ April 07, 2007, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: captainkidd1953 ]
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 08, 2007, 05:54 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
Oooh, evidence of duplicitous gossip. Call Homeland Security!

Personally, I think it's time for 'pics or it didn't happen'. These 2 have been whipping out the 'I got hacked' wooden leg every time they want to divert attention from something rotten they just did, and avoid every direct question about what's going on when asked. Al accused you of hacking simply because he managed to miss the obvious fact that BA had already posted that information. I'd be willing to bet that the second incident has something to do with my knowing who told Winston my salary and other information. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that out - no one else knew. It's like watching a 2 year old with chocolate smeared over his face swearing he didn't touch the cookies [Roll Eyes]

Neither of these guys know enough about computers to tell a hacker from Santa Claus. IMO they don't want it resolved because then they might have to take some responsibility for what they do and the lies they tell.

(psst, Lucy - if you don't use that phrase today, can I borrow it? It fits. )

Oh, and Capt - you left out the part where I invited campaign volunteers over to Jonathan's in the evening, and Winston (who had never volunteered and was quite hostile to me) showed up in the early afternoon and claimed that he was a friend of Al's that Al sent over, and wouldn't admit who he was. Al claims to have known nothing about it. Months later on the forum Winston bragged about how he had tracked me down there because I had questioned him on posting a child's picture on the internet without permission. No offense Cass - you're a sweet person but his threats aren't idle.

[ April 08, 2007, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by mulepig (Member # 2044) on April 08, 2007, 08:01 AM:
 
I need an auto program-to send a "GO TO HELL" forever on my boycott list

to ALL and any POP UP SCUM!

(my blocker-tho working right-has more then once crashed or froze my machine)

time to ban "interference ads"

or make the living vomit PAY for the honor of spitting in my FACE-

like one pays 40 a month for premium boradband-to click off n reclick n play with the blocker

for sum scum to want my business-by spitting in my face

click click click click click

hope the easterbunny skips yer house-popup slime!
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 08, 2007, 09:07 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by cagey:
Months later on the forum Winston bragged about how he had tracked me down there because I had questioned him on posting a child's picture on the internet without permission. No offense Cass - you're a sweet person but his threats aren't idle.

I remember that exchange. Winston's first stated reason for going to campaign headquarters was to check you out. Then he switched his reason to being interested in the campaign.

Edited to Add:

Your courage is astounding, Cagey. My guess is that Winston was fully aware of the difficulties it would present for someone diagnosed with BPD to present evidence of harassment. So with some degree of impunity, he strolled into campaign headquarters under false pretext to check you out. I’ll bet that was intimidating as hell.

[ April 08, 2007, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 08, 2007, 10:38 AM:
 
quote:
you left out the part where I invited campaign volunteers over to Jonathan's in the evening, and Winston (who had never volunteered and was quite hostile to me) showed up in the early afternoon and claimed that he was a friend of Al's that Al sent over, and wouldn't admit who he was. Al claims to have known nothing about it. Months later on the forum Winston bragged about how he had tracked me down there because I had questioned him on posting a child's picture on the internet without permission.
You're right. I forgot about that incident. Idle threats; Hell no...
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 08, 2007, 11:32 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
the difficulties it would present for someone diagnosed with BPD to present evidence of harassment.

I'm sure we'll see an example of that here any time now, because that's what I got from Al at the time. This didn't thrill me as an explanation, though:

quote:
Originally posted by Winston:
I wanted to meet you after you went off on me after posting a picture of my friend Julie's little girl...I'm always curious as to why people behave the way they do.


 
Posted by ecliptic (Member # 1484) on April 08, 2007, 12:46 PM:
 
Ol’ Al said:

“'clip, there was an occasion, last December, when the jackals were suggesting that Dan might have made up his late wife's suicide”

As I recall, only one person, LocalYokel, questioned that, quite insensitively, but he had plenty of cause to be skeptical. He was quickly set right by other posters, and publicly admitted his error.

Al continued, “and a piece of info, posted in private e-mail, between me and Dan, made it's way, nearly verbatim, onto this forum.”

The most likely explanation for that isn’t hacking, but rather that you or Winston either deliberately or inadvertently sent the email to people besides Dan. With the addresses people put in the CC and BCC parts of emails, it’s easy to accidentally send an email, especially a reply or forward email to more people than you intended to. I’ve done it many times myself.

I also know for a fact that my email address has made it into the hands of people on this forum and beyond whom I never intended to give it to because the recipients of my email passed it onto others, either deliberately or negligently. It peeves me quite a bit that people don’t bother to learn how to use blind carbon copies (BCC).
 
Posted by matty (Member # 1111) on April 08, 2007, 01:21 PM:
 
The last known siting of Winston (April 05 2007 08:48 PM.)Complete with various misspellings.

"I've no complaint with those who indulge in extemperaneous self-agrandizement (heck!! I've been guilty of that myself!)..but it remains true that some goofball is still hacking this site, and me personaly."

Instant evidence of expressed self-aggrandizement.

"Good thing I'm so well balanced."

He's not so obtuse that irony escapes him apparently.

"I predict that someone will be killed or crippled in Santa Cruz and then downtown will be cleaned up. BTW, the ATF has offered a reward for information about those who planted the firebomb under the officer's car (was that a crime or an "action"? I get so confused!~!~"

Winston is a buffoon, it would be a compliment to call him a court jester. So lets not give him the
aggrandizement he so pathetically seeks.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 08, 2007, 06:55 PM:
 
Just within the last week, I was attacked, out of nowhere -- twice within a day -- for my type of employment and income level, and no one had a single word to say about it.

Oh for the love of god... [Roll Eyes]

I knew better than to venture in here...

...can you say _H_Y_P_O_C_R_I_T_ (I wish I could make that blink here).

Jeez, I just got back here and realized that an explosion had occurred.

I did not intend to attack Cagey or PSB. I was more, very lightly, toying with a concept similar to a great book, "Black Like Me". If you've read it, you'll understand that I was simply fantasizing about a joint effort (no pun intended) to reveal the underside of Santa Cruz homeless policies.


Now that you mention it, there's this women in a trenchcoat that's been hanging out in the library and other homeless haunts. She noticed me notice her go in a house the other day...

...I don't think it was Lynn Robinson. Not unless her hair has recovered since she stuck her finger in the light socket, or whatever she did.

But before I get any further, thanks.

I think. I've decided not to go back and refresh my memory about whatever it was you wrote. But I reserve the right to do so at any time.

I will now go back and read the rest of the train wreck.

And I as well...

[ April 08, 2007, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 08, 2007, 07:12 PM:
 
For awhile,when I would try to post anything here, I was booted out of the Sentinel site completely and back to my homepage.I would click back into the Sentinel several times until I was let in and alowed to post. My computer seemed to be working fine and I didn't have problems with any other site. After a while I quit having the problem. Because of this and the experiences of other people here, I don't think Dan is making this up.

There are add-ons one can acquire for bulletin board systems such as this that will do exactly that - and escalating levels of harassment - for designated users. There is -delay- which is the first level, and delays designated users for a 1) a specified or random length of time and/or 2) a specified or random number of times.

And etc...

Up to and beyond what you describe.

You could call it the 'Santa Cruz' model of forums administration... [Big Grin]

And least any not-so-computer-literates out there think I'm talkiing about 'hacking', I'm not. It's not hackiig when the owner/administrator does it.

Not that I'm accusing anyone of anything.

[ April 08, 2007, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 08, 2007, 07:28 PM:
 
These 2 have been whipping out the 'I got hacked' wooden leg every time they want to divert attention from something rotten they just did, and avoid every direct question about what's going on when asked.

I'm glad I don't spend enough time here to know that. Uh, thanks for the explanation.

Neither of these guys know enough about computers to tell a hacker from Santa Claus.

That SCAN story was the teller.

I need an auto program-to send a "GO TO HELL" forever on my boycott list

to ALL and any POP UP SCUM!


Yeah, those Sentinel pop-ups are really cheesy, aren't they?
 
Posted by Pragmatist (Member # 809) on April 08, 2007, 07:34 PM:
 
palmspringsbum


quote:
I don't think it was Lynn Robinson. Not unless her hair has recovered since she stuck her finger in the light socket, or whatever she did.

Kind of a cheap shot to make a comment on a woman's appearance but I guess when you have no intellectual ammunition to attack with you have to go with what you’ve got. You got to remember though that Lynn Robinson can go out tomorrow and get a new hair style while you will remain a pathetic loser.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 08, 2007, 09:28 PM:
 
I never see those SENTINEL popup ads. Windows XP (SP-2) tells me when it has blocked them and I just go on with my business here.

The PSB must be using an older lap top loaded with 98-SE or Millenium. Some of those dealers were hawking these cheaper obsolete machines a couple of years ago for less than 500 bucks new...
 
Posted by CoramDeo (Member # 1441) on April 08, 2007, 11:21 PM:
 
Hi Captain,

We use the same operating system. I don't get either pop ups or a notification that they've been blocked. If you don't even want the announcement each time, there's a feature on your system (Internet Options) where you can uncheck the box that says, 'notify me of blocked ads.'

Or maybe it's gratifying to see how many have been blocked. [Smile] I use Mozilla, too, so maybe that makes things a little different. I think when I used to run in IE I had a discreet tally up at the top of my screen that told me how many pop ups had been blocked to date. That was gratifying, too. At one point I lost use of my computer for a week or so because of technical problems and used the internet at the library near our house. I was glad for the free service, but had to adjust to all of those pop ups!

Heather
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 08, 2007, 11:35 PM:
 
Howdy Heather!

Ol' Al wrote:

quote:
This idea has been percolating for a couple of weeks, but I just didn't have the time/energy to get it out: Is PSB a hoax? Researching a media/acedemic research project?

PSB's presence here has been strange...just makes me wonder.... toying with a concept similar to a great book, "Black Like Me". If you've read it, you'll understand that I was simply fantasizing about a joint effort (no pun intended) to reveal the underside of Santa Cruz homeless policies.

To get to the bottom of such vexing local controversies, I offer my own ongoing solo piano concert series to raise the funds for a 24 hr Web TV broadcast from Craig's "Helmet Cam".
 
Posted by CoramDeo (Member # 1441) on April 08, 2007, 11:45 PM:
 
LOL! Beautiful. We can use it to monitor your playing at benefit concerts and confirm whether or not it's actually you playing the music or if you're piano syncing. [Smile]

Actually, the idea of a 'Craig Cam' has definite marketing abilities in that it would tell accurate history. What police officer would mistreat a person wearing a video camera on their head? Much would get sorted out.

I hope you've been well.

Heather
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 09, 2007, 12:09 AM:
 
Heather wrote:

quote:
I hope you've been well.

Quite well Heather, thanks - a little sore from putting in my vegetable garden.

Practising hard on the Brahms Sonata right now as the latest slice of my "Big German Sausage" campaign. Since Fall I've been learning the major masterworks that will highlight six new concert programs which I will be performing consecutively starting in about September.

I've got a nice place in Gilroy to perform the entire series. So, I can build on that PR as I expand the series into the Bay Area.
 
Posted by CoramDeo (Member # 1441) on April 09, 2007, 12:26 AM:
 
Hey Bill, that's great! As Sept gets closer, please post the dates/time/location of your concerts so we might have the option of stopping by to enjoy one.

Heather
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 09, 2007, 06:07 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by ecliptic:
The most likely explanation for that isn’t hacking, but rather that you or Winston either deliberately or inadvertently sent the email to people besides Dan.

Why am I not surprised that no more information has been forthcoming about this?

Clip, if you go for the simplest explanation then you don't get to liven up your little life with some intrigue and drama, you don't have a justification to attack people for no reason, and you don't have it as an excuse to hide behind when you do. You also can pretend that it isn't your own duplicitous behavior that got you on the hotseat in the first place. Telling the truth and having some integrity just can't hold up to a John Wayne fantasy.

[ April 09, 2007, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: cagey ]
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 09, 2007, 06:46 AM:
 
Karen---thanks for the opportunity to post a John Wayne quote. This guy was something else, Pilgrim.

“I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.”

The nerve of those darn Native Americans. Homeland? Ha! We need land, and we got guns. Birth of a Nation. Things would be way different if Donald Trump (a much valued scalp, BTW) had been spokesman for the Iroquois, I'm thinkin'. Things were much different back then, and stealing land and oppressing folks was much easier and well accepted. Now we have all those laws and things that get in the way of the pursuit of Real Estate folks don't own. What a country, eh?
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 09, 2007, 07:01 AM:
 
I was more referring to that mentality of needing to define an enemy and a crisis to ride out against to perpetuate a sense of drama and a self-image as a rough and tough cowboy type, but that concept of being willing to justify any abuse to satisfy a self-defined need kind of fits too.

quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Things were much different back then, and stealing land and oppressing folks was much easier and well accepted. Now we have all those laws and things that get in the way of the pursuit of Real Estate folks don't own.

Now if those laws could only keep people from thinking that they could have their every whim indulged in terms of regulating public spaces, and from thinking that everything that doesn't please them should just disappear.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 09, 2007, 07:09 AM:
 
Yeah. I just like to go off on the injustice the Native Americans were subjected to every now and then, with little urging.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 09, 2007, 07:20 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Yeah. I just like to go off on the injustice the Native Americans were subjected to every now and then, with little urging.

Injustice? Was any law broken?
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 09, 2007, 07:25 AM:
 
Apparently not, unless there are some cases pending. At least they weren't subjected to charges of being "land hogs" on a forum or something. That would have been truly odious, no?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 09, 2007, 07:36 AM:
 
Since nobody was convicted of anything, don't worry your pretty little ponytail about those Indians, Buzz-ster. S'all cool dude. Hope that was helpful.

Gotta go. It's an emergency. I got a pop-up ad, so I'm pretty sure Al is hacking my computer.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 09, 2007, 09:34 AM:
 
Of course, no laws were broken - (because the local residents never had their own professional concert organization here in Watsonville?) - and, we know that's true because "Leadership" either will or won't speak publicly about the "BCA Issue"?

Well ugg - that is indeed a shiny basket of trinkets. So, I will trade you Manhattan Island if you will allow me to play with them. But, before you go, please explain what this word "Trade" mean?

Later, among the participants in our upcoming pianists' potluck, will be is the grand niece of the man who "Discovered" Scott Joplin and later composed Hiawatha,
 -
which is the granddaddy of all subsequent "American Injun Music" - including the famous classic Hams Beer Commercial.

For those who can still hear that ad in their heads, what I just did by switching that memory on for you is called "Live Media Advertising" - as the theory goes: now that you've you've "had a taste", you'll spend your money cause you want more.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 09, 2007, 11:37 AM:
 
I called DHS, SBC and OSS. OSS said they couldn’t help me because they hadn’t invented voice response phone systems yet. Anyway, SBC said that somebody who lives in Siberia, for example, is capable of stealing my personal information and sending it around the world on “the internets.” But it’s hard to be sure who causes these pop-ups without incurring big investigative expense.

So I’m going to assume it’s Al. Did anybody else notice Al talking about former school classmates just the other day? You guessed it, that unscrupulous attack on my personal computer was about contacting former classmates! Case closed, Pilgrim. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 09, 2007, 01:04 PM:
 
"Since nobody was convicted of anything, don't worry your pretty little ponytail about those Indians, Buzz-ster. S'all cool dude. Hope that was helpful".

Quite helpful as always, even when avoiding the obvious. And, my ponytail is rather nice, thanks very much, but not up to the standards of, let's say, Chief Joseph, as he was about to set out on a little gummint inspired hike and camping trip that killed many of his people. It was his fault of course for thinking his folks had some claim on lands they'd possessed for a long time. Of course, lots of retirees now have a place to play Bocce Ball, which is just great. BTW, it's pretty hard to file a case when those who own the courts are tracking you down and killing you if you don't accept their prisons and land theft (excuse me, reservation relocation opportunities). So, you are correct. No one was convicted of anything, in the great "land grab", which is not new, as we know from history. Our corporate heroes have been supporting the same thing in South America for decades to further their bottom line, so, I realize concern for Native Americans or Native anythings is not important. We're talking real estate and resources here, bud, anything goes. Native dwellers everywhere are just in the way of $$$$$$$$$, therefore, filing a complaint, or seeking redress from those who are the problem is useless, as we see from history, and from current goings on in S.A. The winners (better weapons and numbers, not divine guidance) need not worry about silly charges like murder, theft of property, or silly things like that. Just declare them "hostile" (hmm.....what could cause them savages to be hostile?) I can guarantee you if there were a lot more "Little Bighorns", and the Indians won, there'd be plenty of our early real estate "developers" doing Gull-Pig's famous rope dance. So, as you can see, it's hard to convict someone unless you have access to a court that doesn't condone and actively support your demise. Good point Counselor. Good to see that you, like many Americans, apparently, have no problem with landtheft or murder of locals in the name of so-called progress, or, at the minimum, it's old news not worthy of note. That's our history. Hey, it's cool. Most human beings feel the same way, apparently, as it continues today. Hope I didn't make anyone uncomfortable by bringing up the "inconvenient" facts. Also, being convicted of something has the unpleasant requirement of having a day in court, which is always the point when I bring up the subject. Is that what you forgot to mention as a possible reason nobody was convicted of anything, or, are you suggesting they didn't have a case? Maybe they were out trapping Beavers and missed the court date and lost by default. I'm pretty sure the Manhattan Transfer wouldn't stand up in court, if scrutinized, but, it didn't have to be, did it? I guess owning a schlocky casino is a fair tradeoff, but, one-sided real estate deals should at least be able to be challenged, don't you? Of course, Okies like me wouldn't be here if my ancestors didn't have a fast wagon, some supplies and a few rifles, which are, of course, all one needed to break into real estate back then. No down, no interest till January. It probably wasn't that pleasant to see hordes of white folks charging into your ancestral homeland and taking it, but, that's progress, and they should quit whining and just keep them Casinos open for us, with constantly improving amenities and buffets. Game over. Thanks for asking, and, as you know, I am always glad to be of assistance.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 09, 2007, 01:57 PM:
 
quote:
The winners (better weapons and numbers, not divine guidance) need not worry about silly charges like murder, theft of property, or silly things like that. Just declare them "hostile" (hmm.....what could cause them savages to be hostile?)
Well Buzz

The "Numbers" (at least) in the Mexican American War were always on the side of Mexico.

If we read the Peace Treaty that followed, both sides were clearly quite concerned about the hostile nature of those Indians.

So who's right? "Leadership".

Who profited? "Leadership".

Americans are not suposed to be punished for "Criimes of Blood". But, if there is a current fortune that can be traced to a large scale past crime, isn't that money still "stolen"?

But, who always ends up paying so we can "feel good" about those sins of the past?

The little guy, the average hard working American Taxpayer.

And, trust our cute and cuddly politicians to arrange just that type of cynical deal for "Leadership".

That's why we Voters need to be absolutely thorough in our efforts. Our political hamburger grinding machine needs to be periodically disassembled down to its component parts for a complete cleaning.

We can't just shove more fresh meat into our corrupt old meat grinder and expect it to produce government decisions that are good for us.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 09, 2007, 02:20 PM:
 
Buzz, I don't think many people dispute the fact that the Indians got totally screwed. At the same time, they have been given huge gifts in the form of the casinos you mentioned. The casinos around the country have totally transformed the communities they are in and put Indians into banking also. It certainly in no way makes up for the genocidal past, but it is something substantial and proper.

New Hampshire film maker Ken Burns did a superb documentary a few years ago on the west and how the Indians were exploited and ripped off.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 09, 2007, 04:56 PM:
 
Hmm.......I'd heard it was Jack Abramoff and cronies who were getting the "gifts" from the Indians. Some folks apparently haven't had enough of exploiting Indians. Aren't reservations still substandard, notwithstanding the success of some Indian-connected gaming entities? Isn't it interesting that Indians' commercial enterprises are many times composed of what some folks see as undesirable activities? Fireworks? Gambling? Cigarettes? I'm seriously puzzled as to why no Prostitution in conjunction with the Casinos, just like in a real Casino? Anyway, if they can gamble on reservations, why can't they grow pot? Both are illegal under Federal law. What's the difference? I say put down the dice and re-embrace the Great Spirit and plant some seeds. Come to think of it, they could provide quality grown medicine to the State's dispensaries, and pocket some extra wampum as well. (I'm hoping by using the word "wampum" that someone will call me a racist or hypocrite, or something). It would give Chukchansi Gold a new twist. That would be sweet, eh? MM patients buying medicine grown on Govt. land (c'mon, those treaties are meaningless--they are as free as Uncle Sam sez they are) and selling it to folks who the government wants to imprison for using it. Hey, it could happen.
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on April 09, 2007, 06:54 PM:
 
I went to school with a guy that was part Klamath indian. He was several generations removed from the original clan but became quite wealthy between what his 1/8th? share was and what he inherited from his parents and his grandparents when they passed away. Not all of the indian tribes got screwed. Many became very, very wealthy.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 09, 2007, 07:28 PM:
 
Yep. Those Native Americans really got over on us.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 09, 2007, 08:48 PM:
 
Well, it only took six hours to get a new case for my computer. I started by getting on the wrong bus, I guess. And ended up at the mall instead of Circuit City. After going through the entire mall and not finding anything, I had a hamburger. And just happened to be eating in time for one of the attendee's of one or Robert's meetings to walk up to me, remind me we'd met, and shake my hand. Then it was back out to the bus-stop to Circuit City.

Ross's is the only store in the mall that had any computer bags, and none large enough, or really sturdy enough.

As the clerk at Circuit City was about to ring me out, the power went out. Now, I had taken my computer out of the old case to make sure it fit the new one, and had intended not to put it back in because the zipper is broke and I have to bend the computer to get it in there.

Clerk didn't care about that. I had to trot up to the front of the store with the old bag, the new bag, the computer, and my bag-bag, to the customer service counter. And stand there. And wait. And then go to another register which was nowhere near anything where I could put my things down, except on the floor.

When I mentioned that I couldn't sign the check without putting something down he jerked out a writing drawer with great distaste...

...it was only a $60 purchase after all.

Upon completing the purchase I took my things back up to the customer service counter, where I transferred everything from the old bag and put it in the new one. As I was doing this a middle aged woman screamed "DON'T EVER BUY ANYTHING AT CIRCUIT CITY." And stormed out of the store.

"Yes lady, I know. I know." I mumbled under my breath.

And I remembered when I had screamed something similar after learning they had screwed me out of my rebate - about $300 total as I recall - when I bought this laptop there, not all that long ago.

Must be a fun place to work. I can't believe that whole thing happened only because I was there...

...I bet SHE didn't have half the town screaming "YOUR MEDICINE ISN'T WORKING" at her. She probably has a car and a home, so she has a right to get angry and yell and scream when she gets screwed over. Isn't that so?

At least this time I wasn't in a hurry to get back to the Concentration Camp, like I was last time I was there. Last time I was there all I could think about was "I'm not going to be back in time to sign on to the church group."

That was 2-3 days before they decided I could give up my medicine or sit in a hotel or die in the streets for all they cared.

Well, even though it was a big hassle I am glad I got to Circuit City today to be there when the lights went out and hear that woman scream (at the top of her abundant lungs) "DON'T EVER BUY ANYTHING AT CIRCUIT CITY!!!"

Whoever you are, mystery lady, my hat's off to you. You made my day. [Big Grin]

[ April 09, 2007, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by conSCious (Member # 348) on April 09, 2007, 10:16 PM:
 
wow, psb, sounds like a tough day. try doing that sometime on your lunch hour and get back to work on time. life's tough, but those who don't work have extra time to deal with life's contingencies. we all can commiserate.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 10, 2007, 12:53 AM:
 
remember, just ignore the post!
 
Posted by cagey (Member # 1919) on April 10, 2007, 06:06 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Al:
And, KG, Since you seem to be the ony one of us here who's actually met him, did you really? I mean, is PSB real? Is he a figment? Are the two of you, or the too of you compiling data for some purpose? Or is it all in fun?

Hmmm. We seem to have an epidemic of miserable pricks around here. First Winston, now Al.
Hey Al - when you went back and deleted your original post, I think you missed this one. Maybe for the right price Homer will help you cover your tracks a little better.

Wait- I bet it was hackers that did that [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 10, 2007, 07:18 AM:
 
quote:
Are the two of you, or the too of you compiling data for some purpose? Or is it all in fun?
Compiling data? Is there something funny about digging into somebody's private affairs and posting that information here on the forum? For chrissakes you guys knock off this juvenile Bull$hit...
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 11, 2007, 09:17 AM:
 
PSB you could have gone to the goodwill and bought one of them laptop bag thingys for 12.99. just as good. brand new. just a thought.

what the hell is going on here? Al is on the chopping block now? this is getting to seem more like a witch hunt than a forum...but then again, i havent been around much.
it seems that a couple of people here have been naughty worms. dont like that. i have been learning more and more about you guys as i read your past posts...even though its raining outside, it sure seems clear to me.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 11, 2007, 10:13 AM:
 
SharkbaitII wrote:

quote:
what the hell is going on here? Al is on the chopping block now? this is getting to seem more like a witch hunt than a forum...i have been learning more and more about you guys as i read your past posts...even though its raining outside, it sure seems clear to me.
Sadly true SB2, and, nice to have you back in the Forum.

Alas, my "work" is getting more serious these days too. As reality on the piano keyboard catches up to my big mouth, the need to practice long hours becomes a genuine imperative. It's one thing to arrange a location for the local premier of my six new concert programs - as I now have in Gilroy - it's far more involved to actually don the red jersey and "Be Like Mike".

So, for the foreseeable future, I'll be increasingly more "out" than "in" the Forum.

And, just like in Iraq, the Enemy can simply wait for me to leave each time before they launch their next "Idiot Spring" offensive against the TRUTH.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 11, 2007, 12:47 PM:
 
Well, I see if you work at the county building you have to stand in the rain to smoke now.

When it comes to treating people like _N_I_G_G_E_R_S_ you people really know how to do it.

I remember the last time it rained, proprieters were standing in the doorways of their buildings running smokers (me) off.

You can't sit. You can't rest. You must stand, in the rain, unable to do anything else.

ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

Yeah, I know. THEY Stink!!!

Funny, that's what they used to say about, well, you know who...

...that's illegal now, isn't it? To say that, I mean. It's called _H_A_T_E__S_P_E_E_C_H_ isn't it? Why is it hate speech for some and not for others?

GO DO HELL DAMN YOU!!!

You have no right to turn the world into one big McDonald's kiddy park where it's illegal to stink.

ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

(That felt so good I may do it again... [Big Grin] [Eek!] )

[ April 11, 2007, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 11, 2007, 12:51 PM:
 
remember to IGNORE PSB!
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 11, 2007, 01:03 PM:
 
remember to IGNORE PSB!

Yep, first I must modify my behavior - my speech - to suit Karen in order to get access to my possessions. That is until I'm capable of doing something else with them.

Yeah, tough love means never having to say you're sorry.

ROT IN HELL DAMN YOU.

(That does feel good, it really does [Big Grin] )

[ April 11, 2007, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 11, 2007, 01:20 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
Yep, first I must modify my behavior - my speech - to suit Karen in order to get access to my possessions. That is until I'm capable of doing something else with them.

So now you are trashing the one person who has consistently gone out of their way to help you? Nice! You are a real piece of work Craig.

[ April 11, 2007, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: homer ]
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 11, 2007, 01:28 PM:
 
Hey Homer!! Good to see you...
PSB...did you know that it is actually a county wide ordinance that you cannot smoke within 25 feet of any doorway or air duct? i am guessing that you probably dont really give a flying rats behind about others around you but why not try using common sense? you are standing near a doorway SMOKING!!! at the county building of all places!! of course you are going to get run off.
I am a smoker, but i will not smoke near people unless they are other smokers. and what kind of a einstein smokes near a doorway? i dont know why that pissed me off so much. but it did
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 11, 2007, 01:46 PM:
 
C'mon guys,if we keep answering his posts it will NEVER stop!I am soooo tired of being told to "go to hell".REMEMBER JUST IGNORE HIS POSTS!
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 11, 2007, 01:49 PM:
 
hey flyfisher...do you fish locally? where? i am an avid fisherman...not fly fishing but both fresh and salt water fishing. went to loch lomond the other day with a buddy and fished right off the bank and landed a 5 lb bass. was a great day, but then again, i was fishing and would have been happy not catching a thing, just as long as a dropped a line.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 11, 2007, 02:47 PM:
 
I like Craig's contributions.

He provides his own view from an entirely different angle - adding genuine local color to this Forum.

And, he not only blows his reef right out in public, he plays the piano - what's not to like?

PS, and, considering that the Subject of this Thread is "Go To Hell" - his contributions are spot on.
 
Posted by ericr (Member # 1192) on April 11, 2007, 03:34 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by flyfisher:
C'mon guys,if we keep answering his posts it will NEVER stop!I am soooo tired of being told to "go to hell".REMEMBER JUST IGNORE HIS POSTS!

Was it BA who used the term 'put on your man pants'?
Flyfisher, if you don't want to read about "go to hell", don't click on a thread that is titled "GO TO HELL!!!" [Smile]
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 11, 2007, 03:58 PM:
 
SB2 I fish the Sierras mostly,around here trout pickins are few-I steelhead fish for steelhead every year and am one of the few who get them on flies-my personal best was a 40in buck on a size 18 beadhead nymph-about the size of small post earring-on 6lb tippit-let em go but the caculated weight would be about 17lbs.Heading to the Pit this weekend.Shore fishing for stripers looking real promising this year-just throw aspoon to the boils.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 11, 2007, 04:10 PM:
 
Sorry for the offence Billbo and Eric-just tired of the guy-Billbo,you are correct in saying he does add a certain flavor to the forum,I just wish he would take a little responsibilty for what happens to him-I understand that there are two sides to all the stories he tells,but the other side does not post here.I actually like to read his posts about how horrible it is for him being homeless.When I first started reading his posts on the subject I was very engaged by the subject-but then he would just go off about how poorly he was treated by someone-when the truth was really that he did something first and then when the subject of whichever persecution he was going through comes to full light,we find that it was PSBs own action that started the problem.
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 11, 2007, 04:13 PM:
 
Let me clear something up about that last post-by saying that like to hear how horrible it is for him I did not mean that I enjoyed hearing about his discomfort I really do feel for him,I meant that reading about how horrible it is to be homeless.
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 11, 2007, 04:14 PM:
 
PSB...did you know that it is actually a county wide ordinance that you cannot smoke within 25 feet of any doorway or air duct

Did you know I left my tape measure at home?

Did you know I am sick and damned tired of being told to go to the back of the bus every time I turn around, day and night?

Did you know you really know how to treat people like _N_I_G_G_E_R_S_?

Did you know you can GO TO HELL?

[ April 11, 2007, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by flyfisher (Member # 2121) on April 11, 2007, 04:18 PM:
 
BTW PSB I am an avowed atheist-I do not believe in hell...please find some other curse for us atheists.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 11, 2007, 04:55 PM:
 
Bum, you trash everyone, including the dedicated few who try to actually help you. You obviously don't want help, so please, whine elsewhere. You are a total phony with a well scripted scam; nothing more.

[ April 11, 2007, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: pdskee ]
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 11, 2007, 05:40 PM:
 
Craig, don't let these idiots bother you.

What you are doing is carrying on an ancient skill.

However, most of these hot house flowers couldn't keep up with you for a pleasant spring minute out on the street.

And yet, once their "Official" pills kick in, boy, don't they look down at the little people from their expensive Taxpayer Purchased ivory towers.
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on April 11, 2007, 06:35 PM:
 
quote:
Craig, don't let these idiots bother you.

What you are doing is carrying on an ancient skill.

However, most of these hot house flowers couldn't keep up with you for a pleasant spring minute out on the street.

And yet, once their "Official" pills kick in, boy, don't they look down at the little people from their expensive Taxpayer Purchased ivory towers.

And you, William, are a pot stirrer!! [Wink]
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 11, 2007, 06:45 PM:
 
quote:
And you, William, are a pot stirrer!!
heh heh, Do not pay any attention to the man behind the curtain - I am the BillBo of the "Issue"! [Wink]

But, seriously, he is, and, the rest is probably true too.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 11, 2007, 07:44 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by imaham:
quote:
Craig, don't let these idiots bother you.

What you are doing is carrying on an ancient skill.

However, most of these hot house flowers couldn't keep up with you for a pleasant spring minute out on the street.

And yet, once their "Official" pills kick in, boy, don't they look down at the little people from their expensive Taxpayer Purchased ivory towers.

And you, William, are a pot stirrer!! [Wink]
Isn't that nice of Imaham to reward BillBo with a wink and a nod for taunting a fellow poster about her serious illness? Gosh, sometimes the peace train isn't a very fun ride. I'd feel really ashamed if I was Imaham. But hey, it's all free speech, so maybe somebody could tell me, who among Imaham's friends here has a serious illness and is vulnerable to being personally assaulted by taunts about that illness? It would be best if it's a woman, because they cry more, and somebody he respects and admires.

[ April 11, 2007, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 11, 2007, 08:17 PM:
 
Golly, this is a tough one. I read somewhere back on the forum that someone named Janice has serious medical issues. I'm reasonably sure she would cry a lot, but I'm not sure if Imaham respects her. If he did, why would he subject Janice to being run over by the free speech express? I mean, by encouraging and enabling the emotionally juvenile and impressionable BillBo into taunting one of my online friends about her illness, doesn't this set a standard of sorts? I wish there was some kind of consensus peer pressure that would prevent Imaham and BillBo from doing this to MY friend, but I'm sure no law would be broken, so Buzz will be kewl with it. This is where the free speech train can go down one track or another. I hope Imaham gets back to me soon, because I don't wanna go down that track that BillBo has almost worn out.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 11, 2007, 09:01 PM:
 
HAHAHAHAAHA, I was just kidding!! I'm not really as low a free speech dirtball as Al and Imaham. I wouldn't really do that to somebody. But ain't we havin' fun with free speech, though? !! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 11, 2007, 09:48 PM:
 
You're next Craig! Our gang of azzholes just got finished with harassing a poor defenseless woman and almost drove her crazy. It took a lot of balls to make sick jokes about her medical problems here in public. Grow up you crusty old farts.

Some of those bullies are associated with KSCO. It would be nice to keep their big mouths off our public airwaves because they are no better than Don Imus.

Karen won't be back until the moderator flushes down the $hi+ in this public toilet...
 
Posted by HellBent (Member # 602) on April 11, 2007, 09:50 PM:
 
Give it a rest, LW. See, PSB's topics are the ones I always skip, but I decided to just look at the last page, and there you were touting Buzz's new free speech edict!

I really don't feel like checking all the topics on this page to see if you've vandalized all of them with your new jingle....did you?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 11, 2007, 09:51 PM:
 
Sue me, Hellbent, or get with the new zeitgeist!!! [Big Grin]

[oh, sorry, I'm only free speechifying in the Go to Hell and Violence Against Homeless threads--the rest are full of BillBo spamming a dead corporation and endless med put-downs.]

[ April 11, 2007, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 11, 2007, 10:36 PM:
 
in my email

You know, you're such an a-s-s-h-o-l-e and pathetic idiot sometimes. I told you I'd store your stuff no matter what you did, but yet you keep abusing me. F-u-c-k off, and find somewhere else to keep your stuff. I have no interest in you anymore.

Rent a storage place here out of your next month’s check or get your mother to pay for it. I’m not going to toss your s-h-i-t in the trash like I’d be completely within my rights to do, but get it the hell out of my house and soon. Maybe someday you’ll learn to stop s-h-i-t-ting on people that do you favors.


Am I surprised.

Absolutely not.

And blaming ME for it, of course.

Thanks Karen, for proving me absolutely correct.

AND GO TO HELL DAMN YOU.

Tough love means NEVER EVER having to say you're sorry. [Roll Eyes]

Helping me was never part of your agenda. That is abundantly clear now.

[ April 11, 2007, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 11, 2007, 11:06 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
in my email

Nice job taking private email and posting it in public. Or did someone else "make" you do that, too?
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 11, 2007, 11:28 PM:
 
quote:
Nice job taking private email and posting it in public. Or did someone else "make" you do that, too?
Hey PSB; you wanna read some of the private stuff betweem me and Karen; when we had our big fight last Summer? None of your goddamned business!
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 12, 2007, 08:24 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by palmspringsbum:
And blaming ME for it, of course.

The gall of that woman! She actually expects the great Craig Canada, noted medical marijuana activist, (he's descended from royalty after all) to bear any responsibility for his words or his actions? Doesn't she know who she's dealing with?
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on April 12, 2007, 08:31 AM:
 
LW, if I spent as much time as you do jumping to conclusions about what I post or what my intentions are, I would no doubt wear myself out.
My intentions towards what I posted to BillBo are what you made up in your imagination. You are so spun up over all of this that you can't help yourself.
If you were to take the time to check, you will find that, to my recollection, I have not made any dispariging remarks towards your friend. In fact, we have always had a reasonable relationship on the boards. I have seen some changes in that most recently but I have chosen not to comment on it.
As to your past remarks about people that do, or do not jump into the frays that get created, I would suggest that their lack of silence doesn't necessarily mean that they don't support someone. Some people aren't as vocal about things as you are, and may take the time to give their support in other ways than on an open forum.

Food for thought.
 
Posted by imaham (Member # 752) on April 12, 2007, 08:33 AM:
 
What a low life thing to do, Craig. I am making an exception in not speaking out, as I said to LW above, because you just set a new low.

Congratulations.
 
Posted by cassandra2 (Member # 1420) on April 12, 2007, 08:46 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
Golly, this is a tough one. I read somewhere back on the forum that someone named Janice has serious medical issues. I'm reasonably sure she would cry a lot, but I'm not sure if Imaham respects her. If he did, why would he subject Janice to being run over by the free speech express? I mean, by encouraging and enabling the emotionally juvenile and impressionable BillBo into taunting one of my online friends about her illness, doesn't this set a standard of sorts? I wish there was some kind of consensus peer pressure that would prevent Imaham and BillBo from doing this to MY friend, but I'm sure no law would be broken, so Buzz will be kewl with it. This is where the free speech train can go down one track or another. I hope Imaham gets back to me soon, because I don't wanna go down that track that BillBo has almost worn out.

Well until you advocate putting a good portion of the population'up the chimney' Janice says you you have the right to say anything you feel comfortable with. Just don't expect everyone to be sympathetic with your view point. when Janice needs emotional support or validation she phones a friend. She knows better than to come here to a public forum. You get unexpexted kindness from some and vitreol from others but learn to expect everything and nothing. Have a good day.
 
Posted by IamNotKoi (Member # 2307) on April 12, 2007, 08:57 AM:
 
Been lurking for a long time, but this was enough for me.

PSB, Karen actually owes you _nothing_. To be honest, none of us owe you anything, even though you're quick to blame us for your own issues. She was doing you a huge favor, but since you do not seem to be able to be civil, you burned that bridge quite nicely.

That's all well and good, but to turn around and blame her, just makes me shake my head. I was lurking when PSB started posting. At first, I was all "man, that guy's had a rough patch". However, the more I read, the less sympathy I had. There seems to be no small problem that PSB can't blow out of proportion with his rudeness and attitude.

I know that by delurking, I'll get a coveted(?) "go to hell", but I finally had to say something, as a line was crossed in front of me.
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 12, 2007, 09:25 AM:
 
quote:
Did you know I left my tape measure at home?

Did you know I am sick and damned tired of being told to go to the back of the bus every time I turn around, day and night?

Did you know you really know how to treat people like _N_I_G_G_E_R_S_?

Did you know you can GO TO HELL?


yayyyyyy, i feel like one of the "cool kids" now that craig has blessed me with a personal response. i am so excited i think my bladder has shrunk three inches.
by responding directly to you craig, i am willingly asking for a comeback, and fueling your fire. i want you to know this before i say what i am going to say.

you didnt bring your tape measure?
it doesnt take a genius to guess 25 feet.

i know how to treat people like ...W_H_A_T?
what a low life piece of crap to use a HATEFILLED word like that.

you're sick and tired of being told to go to the back of the bus? you're sick and tired of what else craig? do you want people to treat you with the dignity and respect that most humans deserve? well with that respect and dignity, you need to earn it. becuase you treat others with vulgarities, rants, rude remarks and behaviour, you deserve what you get called, and how you get treated.
i was homeless for two years in southern cal, then i was homeless 11 years later up here for a couple of months. people still respected me, not because of pity, but because i acted respectful of my fellow humans.
tell me to go to hell?
no craig, you first.

[ April 12, 2007, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: SharkbaitII ]
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 12, 2007, 09:32 AM:
 
flyfisher...i know this dude who lives around the hwy corner from me in Ben Lomond who has this sweet spot behind his house on the river. man oh man, the other day another buddy of mine was up there and counted 20, yes i said 20, 30+" steelies. i was really happy to hear that. a good sign of things to come if we stay on the right track. i gotta admire a guy who still fishes dry flies. have you checked out that bait shop in felton? i have heard mixed things about it.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 12, 2007, 10:33 AM:
 
For the record, I've never met any of these Screen Names - to me, they are all just familiar virtual characters in a virtual Forum that either do, or, don't argue their positions in particular patterns.

I'm still debating REAL ISSUES and how they really relate to the REAL PUBLIC - out here in the REAL WORLD - where the REAL TAXPAYERS have to deal with genuinely crazy aspects of their GOVERNMENT entities.

We Taxpayers have to pay for it. Business has to be concerned about the bottom line. Out here in the real world, BCA had scrupulously followed all the rules, came out of Watsonville of all places to WIN THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP, only to be CHEATED OUT OF IT by these same (your choice: they're either crazy, or, they're dangerously crooked) Dirty Demo Government Entities.

Regardless, we Taxpayers have an absolute right to know why our expensive "professional government" - so adept at taxing us up the you know what - is acting ALL CRAZY LIKE THIS!!!!!

But, this endless personal crap about these poor poor (yet, quite well paid) government workers and their insider wonk cronies is not helping the Forum successfully debate such important issues.

So, I'm against it. I think they should put a sock in it.

Call the Cops, or buck up. Nobody is "doing something" to our sensitive government workers.

It's just the REAL WORLD trying to get on with its REAL BUSINESS while being hassled unmercifully by this expensive, deliberately wasteful and certifiably CRAZY GOVERNMENT!!!!!
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 12, 2007, 11:02 AM:
 
nice post billbo...
check your pRiVatE MessaGeS
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 11:10 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by imaham:
LW, if I spent as much time as you do jumping to conclusions about what I post or what my intentions are, I would no doubt wear myself out.
My intentions towards what I posted to BillBo are what you made up in your imagination.

Good morning everybody!

Gee Tommie, I’ve heard a lot about “intentions” and “imagination” lately. Like when you and other puddin’ headed cultists here finally figured out that your guru Winston actually stalked Cagey, the conversation turned to ‘intentions.’ Did Winnie really intend to intimidate Cagey by gaining entry to JB’s private residence (and ad hoc campaign headquarters) under false pretense?

Gosh, who can really know intent? You could look at what Winston posted himself. He was merely curious about a woman poster here--a woman who had dared gently question/advise him about permission protocols after he had posted the picture of a minor female here on ‘the internets.’ IIRC, Cagey said something like, ‘do you think her parents would want her picture posted here?’ Winston later said he was curious about Cagey after she, “went off on me after posting a picture of my friend Julie's little girl...” So I’m trying to use my imagination why Winston was so exercised by that exchange that he felt compelled to inappropriately make contact with Cagey. Let me know if you have any idea, because I can’t imagine being as perverted as Winston.

Oh, I also can’t imagine being as dense as you. Therefore, I don’t give a rat’s butt what your "intentions" were in congratulating a dimwit for taunting Cagey about the requisite medication regime for her serious but controlled illness.

IMPORTANT SAFE HARBOR LEGAL NOTICE:
Buzz-ster, please be advised that I’m using the word "stalked" in a generic, breezy, hippie-dippy, it’s all kewl if it’s not me, lyrically inspired street definition. Ya know, the kind of stalking that could scare the poo-poo out of somebody and effect their performance or commitment as a campaign manager, but wouldn’t necessarily violate any legal or constitutional principles effecting native Americans or the descendants of their European marauders.

[ April 12, 2007, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 11:32 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
,,,Buzz-ster, please be advised that I’m using the word "stalked" in a generic, breezy, hippie-dippy, it’s all kewl if it’s not me, lyrically inspired street definition....

L, where can I get a good tongue-sharpener? It's obviously working very well, and I must say that I enjoyed the above part of the slicing very much....
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 11:34 AM:
 
In fact, it's working well enough that in my mind I'm now hearing an arena-rock-balladeer group on a huge stage (blue lights, a bit of fog...) doing their hit ballad "As Long As It's -- Not Meeeeeeeeee" (tw twang tw tw twaaaaaang....)
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 12, 2007, 12:14 PM:
 
I don't know these people, but, I do know "hedging your bet" in an argument when I see it.

Push hard enough in one direction and we get the arrogant professional edge - go the other way and we run into all these excuses.

In my family it was called the "poor little me" and you didn't get your own way by pulling it.

Is it real, or is it fake? Well, what the Forum knows is that one of the groups of posters - who apparently know each other - are presenting this "poor little me" argument as a team.
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 12, 2007, 12:18 PM:
 
hmmm interesting. never thought about it that way.
and in going back to previous posts to catch myself up on the recent battle of words so i can say at least i know a little bit about it, i was reminded of something that happened in '05-'06. anyone remember Observer? i was chatting with her a bit off the forum and she mentioned that Winston had been a little ...forward....with her, and it kind of scared her, then she decided that people were mean to her in the forum and left. sounds a bit too familiar
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 12, 2007, 12:51 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by BillBo:
In my family it was called the "poor little me" and you didn't get your own way by pulling it.

Bwahaha! And what exactly do you call this:

quote:

Out here in the real world, BCA had scrupulously followed all the rules, came out of Watsonville of all places to WIN THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP, only to be CHEATED OUT OF IT by these same (your choice: they're either crazy, or, they're dangerously crooked) Dirty Demo Government Entities.

Poor little you...
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 12:56 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by SharkbaitII:
anyone remember Observer? i was chatting with her a bit off the forum and she mentioned that Winston had been a little ...forward....with her, and it kind of scared her

Why does it not surprise me that the forum's hyperactive guru-hoodlum can scare women across continents? Wasn't Observer from Spain?

It also won't surprise me when Imaham, conSCious, Cass, BillBo, BA, Buzz, and Al ignore your observation with a vengeance.
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 12, 2007, 01:06 PM:
 
spain yes...
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 01:15 PM:
 
Actually LW, you are incorrect as you frequently are, and it seems to be increasing, however, I do admire folks who can take things to another level. I always felt that I drove her off (by the way, her handle was ObserverII, I think). She did not like being told that the US does not have an obligation to take in everyone worldwide. This occured during a discussion on immigration. I also freaked her out by asking if Franco was still dead. I'm sure one of you geniuses can retrieve the posts. She was actually irate that someone would suggest that we are a sovereign country, and we don't have to let anyone in if we don't want to. I liked her a lot, and her posts were full of music and food and interesting information. BTW, I see you seem to be stuck and keep posting about KG and what happened. It has moved beyond that. It does not matter what KG said, or, what Winston said. A forum is not a place to try facts. That's done in a court by a judge or jury. If you are so irate, do something, except blab on a forum. Why don't you get it? I'm done with this thread, but hope to be accosted by you elsewhere. I do kind of like that LW/Mahak clique. Very exclusive. Ha.
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 12, 2007, 01:25 PM:
 
it was observerII you are correct sir. she left for a number of reasons, but they were all around you know who. she told me so. yes she did.
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 12, 2007, 01:35 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by SharkbaitII:
Hey Homer!! Good to see you...

Hi SB. Nice to see you back.
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 12, 2007, 01:41 PM:
 
it is isnt it? hahaha...kidding
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 02:01 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
It does not matter what KG said, or, what Winston said.

Says you, for reasons yet to mate with coherence.
quote:
A forum is not a place to try facts. That's done in a court by a judge or jury.
Judge Buzz-ster, may I approach the bench?

Pssst, you've completely lost the free speech spirit. Just when I start to come aboard the free wheelin' speech train, you morph into a net-nanny. Who the hell are you to tell me what "the forum is not a place" for?

[ April 12, 2007, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 12, 2007, 02:21 PM:
 
this is fun
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 02:38 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by SharkbaitII:
she left for a number of reasons, but they were all around you know who. she told me so. yes she did.

Thanks for sharing that information, Shark, especially considering your non-anonymous status and personal gratitude toward you-know-who. Despite Buzz's diversionary prattle, it's meaningful confirmation to some of us.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 02:54 PM:
 
"Pssst, you've completely lost the free speech spirit. Just when I start to come aboard the free wheelin' speech train, you morph into a net-nanny. Who the hell are you to tell me what "the forum is not a place" for?"

Geez, that kill the messenger thing is actually true. Who knew? I'm not the one saying it. It's the Constitution. I didn't write it, I just kind of like it. My offer to buy everyone a bus ticket to Philly to read the Constitution still stands. Not many sales so far, though. Perhaps I should change that to a ticket on the "free wheelin' speech train"?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 03:04 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
[to paraphrase: repetitive prattle about non-applicable constitutional principles in an attempt to justify ignoring the recollections of Winston's victims and blame them for daring to speak out about the vile transgressions of his good buddy, who he LOVES to rap with about stale hippie subculture crap]

Kewl. You keep beating your faux legal drum, and I'll keep free speechifying. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by homer (Member # 420) on April 12, 2007, 03:09 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
My offer to buy everyone a bus ticket to Philly to read the Constitution still stands.

Of course from there you will have to board another bus to Washington, D.C. where the constitution actually is.

Gee Buzz. I guess your grasp of geography is a match for your grasp of truth and fairness. But don't worry. If you put down the bong for a few weeks your mind *WILL* clear.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 03:18 PM:
 
Ahh, new lows. Now you can actually tell me what I meant to write. Nice. If I need an editor, I'll hire someone more erudite than you. This is even better than ignoring the assumption of innocence. BA is right. You and Mahak are a great combo. Hope it lasts. Very amusing. So, I never did actually remember you or Mahak answering the simple question. I got a lot of irrelevant jaw jacking, but, how about it one more time? I answered KG's question, so, I guess my question is back on the table, eh? Here we go: I'll type slowly.

Should people have the presumption of innocence, or, should folks on the forum do that themselves and avoid a lot of legal stuff like charging, trying, convicting, stuff like that? Yes or No will suffice. Thank you. I think I'm getting as tired of this as you all. I hope.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 03:42 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
BTW, I see you seem to be stuck and keep posting about KG and what happened. It has moved beyond that.

One cannot "move beyond" what one has been too much of a coward (that would be you) to address squarely in the first place.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 03:47 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Should people have the presumption of innocence

In court, yes.
quote:
or, should folks on the forum do that themselves
Folks on the forum are well advised to be very, very cautious about Winston, and not make any presumptions about his (or anybody else's) innocence. Hope that was helpful!! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by ecliptic (Member # 1484) on April 12, 2007, 03:57 PM:
 
People who are being tried in courts of law are guaranteed a presumption of innocence -- at least by the government and those empowered to carry out the law such as jurors.

People who are being "tried" in the "court of public opinion" are guaranteed no such right, which is appropriate since the consequences of such a "trial" rarely amount to more than opprobrium. And as BA has aptly pointed out, there are simple remedies like libel suits for those damaged by any lies that crop up during the process.

Buzz, it seems like you're not distinguishing between these two situations and thus standing behind a principle that doesn't exist. Am I wrong, or am I missing some subtlety (or not so subtlety) in what you've written so far?
 
Posted by matty (Member # 1111) on April 12, 2007, 05:06 PM:
 
Hey Karen, If you are out there lurking, I wanted to PM you but I am on your ignore list. Was it something I said? Take me off. We'll talk, I'm concerned.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 05:21 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
BTW, I see you seem to be stuck and keep posting about KG and what happened. It has moved beyond that.

One cannot "move beyond" what one has been too much of a coward (that would be you) to address squarely in the first place.
LOL. If Buzz is looking for a pair, or a principle, he need only look as far as you on this one, Mak. Given our past disagreements, you're surely aware of how much that feels like a root canal for me to say. IIRC, you kinda dislike Cagey and kinda like, or liked, Winston.

I don't weigh in on nazi references much (other than teasing BA about his feminazi rant) but this has elements. Strong Alpha leader in Winston, rigid justifications, mindless angry minions, purging of intellectuals, stigmatization of groups ("dirtbags"), and loose talk about acting out murderous impulses on a target group. Truly disgusting.

[ April 12, 2007, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 12, 2007, 05:42 PM:
 
quote:
And what exactly do you call this:

Out here in the real world, BCA had scrupulously followed all the rules, came out of Watsonville of all places to WIN THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP, only to be CHEATED OUT OF IT by these same (your choice: they're either crazy, or, they're dangerously crooked) Dirty Demo Government Entities.

Thanks for asking.

It is an allegation of unethical if not outright criminal behaviour against BCA by the Government Arts Monopoly - "Leadership" and their pet Dirty Demos from here to Sacramento.

----------------------
It's about this:
 -

"LEADERSHIP" can't sing and dance and they don't look good in blue jeans.

FREE THE BCA MUSICIANS!!!
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 05:45 PM:
 
Winston is not a strong leader, nor will he ever be. He's a fool like most folks say. And, Mahak, you really are a silly fool as well. I am ignoring you here too, silly man. You act like a 7th grader.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 06:32 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
BTW, I see you seem to be stuck and keep posting about KG and what happened. It has moved beyond that.

One cannot "move beyond" what one has been too much of a coward (that would be you) to address squarely in the first place.
LOL. If Buzz is looking for a pair, or a principle, he need only look as far as you on this one, Mak. Given our past disagreements, you're surely aware of how much that feels like a root canal for me to say. IIRC, you kinda dislike Cagey and kinda like, or liked, Winston.
I tend, in online forums, to relate more to behavior than to who it comes from, unless I get to know people outside of the forum.

I defended Winston once when people seemed to forget that he'd (temporarily; it soon reversed) apologized for his behavior and removed some offending posts, but never liked his input here much at all. Cagey and I had an awful time relating, for several long periods, but that seems to be over, and I tend to let that stuff pass when it's over. I'm an "endless new chances" person. Everything appears to me to be impermanent, and who knows who's going to become what over time?

Thanks for the good word, several times now. I find myself astonished to be so in parallel with you on this, but it feels right. I think that the structure and order of what has been happening repeatedly is very clear, and so are the choices people have in responding. And I appreciate your responses to Winston's abusive sadism and Buzz' protecting him at any cost very much.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 12, 2007, 06:39 PM:
 
Mr.Bum, muchos gracios to you! In your glorious stumbling blunders, you have proven two very important points for me.

1. MARIJUANA SHOULD BE LEGAL

I think all regular readers would agree that Mr. Bum clearly represents the upper end of the scale in terms pot usage. Though he has some serious behavior issues, clearly his faculties are enough intact that many here have encouraged him to publish these angst/pot laden creations from his keyboard. I suggested it myself.
At the same time, any reasonable person would agree that if we took a really drunk, but gifted individual, that person would be far more physically and mentally impaired and nowhere near as able to produce such lucid and clear writing.
So, in terms of impairment, we see that we have a vivid example right in front of us showing that pot really is much less destabilizing than alcohol, which is legal(and deadly).
And of course, this is not to say pot is good, no drugs is best of all, it is just much less bad. Mr. Bum has done a great service to the world in proving this beyond all reasonable doubt.

2. The Inescapability of Karma is more than the average human can endure

One time I randomly open up the middle of the Hindu bible, the Bhagavad Gita, and glanced down at that phrase. It was another version of the same thing in most religions - you get back what you put out, etc.
I personally don't belong to any religion but I respect that law.
Mr. Bum, with his GO TO HELL greeting for all, has for now ensured himself a reserved seat there. So Mr. Bum, with this double whammy, please take a bow!

Best of luck!
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 06:45 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Winston is not a strong leader, nor will he ever be. He's a fool like most folks say. And, Mahak, you really are a silly fool as well. I am ignoring you here too, silly man. You act like a 7th grader.

You've been informed that your legal principles don't apply here. What's left of your groovy rant?

Here's a guess. Your gutless crap isn't really benign prattle. It's classic ‘silence the victim by shaming her.’ Beyond ObserverII and Cagey, how many women should Winston be able to harass before they are allowed to tell the truth? That is, without you also harassing them for daring to speak out.

Free speech my arse, punk.
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 12, 2007, 06:48 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
quote:
Originally posted by Mahakala:
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
BTW, I see you seem to be stuck and keep posting about KG and what happened. It has moved beyond that.

One cannot "move beyond" what one has been too much of a coward (that would be you) to address squarely in the first place.
LOL. If Buzz is looking for a pair, or a principle, he need only look as far as you on this one, Mak. Given our past disagreements, you're surely aware of how much that feels like a root canal for me to say. IIRC, you kinda dislike Cagey and kinda like, or liked, Winston.
I tend, in online forums, to relate more to behavior than to who it comes from, unless I get to know people outside of the forum.

I defended Winston once when people seemed to forget that he'd (temporarily; it soon reversed) apologized for his behavior and removed some offending posts, but never liked his input here much at all. Cagey and I had an awful time relating, for several long periods, but that seems to be over, and I tend to let that stuff pass when it's over. I'm an "endless new chances" person. Everything appears to me to be impermanent, and who knows who's going to become what over time?

Thanks for the good word, several times now. I find myself astonished to be so in parallel with you on this, but it feels right. I think that the structure and order of what has been happening repeatedly is very clear, and so are the choices people have in responding. And I appreciate your responses to Winston's abusive sadism and Buzz' protecting him at any cost very much.

MAk, you and Lward have been quite eloquent and on the money in this. Congratulations. I didn't mean to sidetrack the train of thought here with that last post, but I had to get it out before it was lost.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 06:56 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
Your gutless crap isn't really benign prattle. It's classic ‘silence the victim by shaming her.’ Beyond ObserverII and Cagey, how many women should Winston be able to harass before they are allowed to tell the truth? That is, without you also harassing them for daring to speak out.

AMEN!!!
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 06:59 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdskee:
MAk, you and Lward have been quite eloquent and on the money in this. Congratulations. I didn't mean to sidetrack the train of thought here with that last post, but I had to get it out before it was lost.

Thanks, Pd. I really appreciate that. And your post was great, regardless. Buddhist teacher I saw speak once did a quick calc of the number of insects he and his driver had smashed on the way to the talk, just by driving down the highway, and pointed out just what the Hindu text did. I think that's why Christians are really right in endorsing the idea of grace -- that which we get for free, despite the chains of karma....
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 06:59 PM:
 
That's not for me, or you, or anyone else on this forum to decide. Unless you're on the jury. It's clear you are not going to get it, so I give up. How about this, though? Seems like BA gave you a little something to think about like putting your brain in gear before engaging your mouth. I thought this was interesting from today's Review Journal. Seems like it might not be OK to make scurrilous charges on the "internets". Sad for sure for the family, but, libel is not that cool, either. Share this with your new BFF Mahak---I'm ignoring him. BTW, thanks for proving my point. Punk, indeed. You have no respect for your elders, or the intellectually superior apparently. Carry on with you silliness.


Apr. 12, 2007
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

Slander claim dismissed; libel claim proceeds

By FRANK GEARY
REVIEW-JOURNAL

Frank and Audrey Lockwood speak with their attorney, Kevin Diamond, left, at the Regional Justice Center Wednesday. The Lockwoods are involved in a lawsuit with Nevada Imaging.
Photo by Gary Thompson.

"That's where they murdered our daughter," muttered Frank Lockwood during a visit to the medical facility where his daughter had stopped breathing weeks earlier during a routine, outpatient procedure.

Nobody heard his off-the-cuff comment except employees of the Nevada Imaging medical facility, but the company sued the grieving father for slander.

The words behind the lawsuit were not publicly revealed until Wednesday when a Review-Journal reporter was able to attend a hearing in a case previously kept secret from the public -- one of 115 sealed civil lawsuits identified in a recent investigation by the Review-Journal. The times and places of hearings in sealed cases are purposely left off the Clark County District Court docket, but the Review-Journal learned of this one.

After hearing arguments for summary judgment, District Judge Valorie Vega dismissed the slander claim over Lockwood's extemporaneous remark, saying the oral statement had not been overheard by a third party. But she allowed a separate libel claim over contents of a Web site and various letters to move forward.

Tina Lockwood McCarley, 44, stopped breathing while undergoing a CAT scan to diagnose back pain in January 2004 at the Nevada Imaging facility in Peccole Ranch. She was resuscitated but died several days later at a local hospice. McCarley's death was one of the rare cases in which the Clark County coroner's office listed the cause of death as "undetermined," making it unclear whether anyone was responsible for her death.

After noting that nobody outside the Nevada Imaging office heard Lockwood's "murder" remark during a visit in June 2004, Vega dismissed the slander claim.

Earlier in the hearing, Kevin Diamond, the Lockwoods' attorney, argued that the comment was Frank Lockwood's opinion rather than a statement of fact. "The Lockwoods can't be punished for giving their First Amendment opinion about what happened to their daughter," Diamond told the judge.

However, Vega did not dismiss a defamation claim that Nevada Imaging included in its lawsuit against Frank and Audrey Lockwood and their daughter's surviving sibling, Tammy Reed.

The company's attorney, Linda Rurangirwa, argued Wednesday that the elderly couple intentionally set out to ruin Nevada Imaging's reputation by mailing out to similar companies a package that included questions about medical procedures, such as the one performed on their daughter, and disparaging comments about Nevada Imaging's practices.

Some who received the Lockwoods' correspondence then posted comments on a Web site Tammy Reed established as a memorial, Rurangirwa said. The lawyer argued that the comments posted on the Internet hurt the company's reputation on a national level.

"This was clearly an effort to ruin the reputation of Nevada Imaging ..." Rurangirwa told the judge. "The statements made by the Lockwoods are statements of fact and not just opinion."

The case is expected to go to a settlement conference before the next court hearing scheduled for late June.

Diamond and Rurangirwa both declined to discuss the lawsuit.

They said they were prohibited from commenting because the case was sealed, and Diamond said he didn't know whether Vega should have excluded the press from Wednesday's hearing since an unknown judge ordered the case sealed the same day the lawsuit was filed in May 2005.

"I thought the judge was going to kick everyone out of the court hearing because that is what she is supposed to do when the case is sealed. We didn't want to be held in contempt of court" by commenting to the press on a sealed case, Diamond said after the hearing.

The lawsuit against the Lockwoods was one of several highlighted by the Review-Journal in a series published in February about Clark County District Court judges sealing from public view at least 115 lawsuits between 2000 and late 2006. Unlike many thousands of other lawsuits filed each year, no information about sealed lawsuits is available to the public, including the name of the judge who sealed the case or the dates of upcoming court hearings.

However, the Review-Journal was provided with the identities of litigants in each of the 115 cases. They include people and organizations that are wealthy or wield influence in politics, business, medicine and the courts.

The hearing in the Lockwood case comes at a time when state lawmakers are considering a proposal that would limit judges' authority to seal civil cases, and as the state Supreme Court has begun forming a committee to examine problems associated with the sealing of court records and public access to court records.

In the Lockwood case, Diamond and Rurangirwa said they didn't know which judge sealed the case two years ago, but they said it was Nevada Imaging that requested the case be sealed and that the Lockwoods were not allowed any input on that decision.

Rurangirwa said Nevada Imaging asked that its lawsuit against McCarley's survivors be sealed in order to protect the confidentiality of McCarley's medical records, even though McCarley had been dead more than a year when the lawsuit was filed. "We are being very careful," she said.

"That was done before we got involved with the case," Diamond said of the decision to seal the case.

With a reporter sitting in the front row of Vega's courtroom and a pending request to allow a newspaper photographer in the courtroom, the judge didn't mention that the case had been sealed from public view, and Nevada Imaging's attorney didn't ask the judge to remove the media from the hearing, which lasted approximately 20 minutes.

Keep flappin' them gums.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 07:06 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Seems like it might not be OK to make scurrilous charges on the "internets".

That legal principle has been established for years now -- as you'd if you actually followed free speech developments, as opposed to hiding behind phony versions of them to justify your enabling abusers.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 07:26 PM:
 
Apparently you can't read either. I'm ignoring you. Move along, Nazi hunter, I've heard more than enough from you to last a long time.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 07:33 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Apparently you can't read either. I'm ignoring you. Move along, Nazi hunter, I've heard more than enough from you to last a long time.

You don't tell me what to do.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 07:42 PM:
 
OK, then. Stay if you like, but, you seem to have forgot I'm ignoring you, so this conversation is not taking place.
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 07:50 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
OK, then. Stay if you like, but, you seem to have forgot I'm ignoring you, so this conversation is not taking place.

What conversation? I don't see anything. I'm not even here. Nor are you. I am not a crook......
 
Posted by ecliptic (Member # 1484) on April 12, 2007, 07:52 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdskee:

At the same time, any reasonable person would agree that if we took a really drunk, but gifted individual, that person would be far more physically and mentally impaired and nowhere near as able to produce such lucid and clear writing.

Well this reasonable person begs to differ by offering a few names: Ernest Hemingway, Truman Capote, Dylan Thomas, Raymond Chandler, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Jack Kerouac, Edgar Allan Poe. Every one a sot, and by my estimation, every one even more talented than PSB.

On the other hand, I've always agreed with the underlying observation that pot is, on the whole, less dangerous to health and society than alcohol, even if it were used to the same extent as alcohol.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 12, 2007, 08:07 PM:
 
quote:
...crap......victim.... shaming .... harassing .
What really cheeses me about this drivel is that you seem to have grossed Craig out even worse than me.

Now he apparently doesn't feel right about posting in his signature "GO TO HELL" Thread anymore.

Can you blame him? (don't answer that)

But, just please occasionally consider the people who you hurt with all your abusive ranting.

I look forward to Craig's contributions and now you've ruined it for me.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 08:13 PM:
 
Oooopps----missed this one. Thought I was done, but, not quite. Gotta' hurry. Nazi Party meetin, you know. If I wasn't ignoring Mahak, I would have responded with something like the following.

quote:Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Seems like it might not be OK to make scurrilous charges on the "internets".

That legal principle has been established for years now -- as you'd if you actually followed free speech developments, as opposed to hiding behind phony versions of them to justify your enabling abusers.

-----------

Actually, it hasn't been settled at all, as you would know if you read the article, and paid attention to current events. And, your self appointed gig as identifier of abusers and Nazis is wearing thin. However, I support your right to be as irrelevant and pointless as you like. Internet law is evolving as we speak. I think times of spewing unsubstantiated trash without penalty may be coming under scrutiny soon. You aren't the only one who feels comfortable running their mouths and charging folks with being this or that, or, even Nazis when they clearly are not. What do you think we should do with idiots like that? Imus got fired for less. (If I wasn't ignoring you, I mean) BTW---you seem to like patterns. Here's one for you. I've noticed that every time you get taken to the woodshed by James, which is not infrequent, you have a period of overagression against others, that is not that cool in my world. Why is that? (If I wasn't ignoring you, I mean).
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 08:32 PM:
 
If there IS such a pattern -- and there might be, as none of us know ourselves fully -- I'm not consciously aware of it.

I'm also not aware of James' having taken me to the woodshed recently. When did that happen?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 08:41 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Seems like BA gave you a little something to think about

Let’s review. You shame and harangue Cagey for speaking the truth about Winston harassing her, and are gleeful at the prospect of me being sued for speaking my mind on the forum.

Your are one helluva self-styled free speech activist, Buzz-ster.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 08:44 PM:
 
Ask James, he's much sharper than I. I'm done with this. Later.
 
Posted by Buzz Daly (Member # 1594) on April 12, 2007, 08:47 PM:
 
LW---that is a stale route you're on. An upgrade would be nice. So whattya' think about the article I posted? Anybody need to reign in their overzealous comments about others? Something to think about, eh?
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 08:51 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
Share this with your new BFF Mahak

Hey Mak, this reminds me, and since we're having a rare Hallmark moment, I owe you an apology. In the past I've characterized you with a phrase that translates roughly to, 'unique diminutive baked good.' Until I saw a performance by insult-comic Lisa Lampanelli on Leno a couple months ago, I wasn't aware of the full implications of that phrase. I haven't used it since, and won't use it again. I would like to, however, retain the right to use 'hysterical' on occasion.
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 12, 2007, 08:53 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Daly:
So whattya' think about the article I posted?

Too long and boring to read.
 
Posted by BillBo (Member # 1431) on April 12, 2007, 09:08 PM:
 
Craig, please come back and tell us about sunny friendly Santa Cruz.

These whiners are making my head hurt.
 
Posted by captainkidd1953 (Member # 1817) on April 12, 2007, 09:55 PM:
 
quote:
I'm still debating REAL ISSUES and how they really relate to the REAL PUBLIC - out here in the REAL WORLD - where the REAL TAXPAYERS have to deal with genuinely crazy aspects of their GOVERNMENT entities.

We Taxpayers have to pay for it. Business has to be concerned about the bottom line. Out here in the real world, BCA had scrupulously followed all the rules, came out of Watsonville of all places to WIN THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP, only to be CHEATED OUT OF IT by these same (your choice: they're either crazy, or, they're dangerously crooked) Dirty Demo Government Entities.

You damned HYPOCRITE! BCA was founded as a 501-C3 tax exempt organization; so other people get stuck having to pay extra money that you weaseled out of paying yourself. Gimme some $$$".

We didn't subsidize the Beatles, Rolling Stones the San Francisco bands or the current hip-hop artists. Your old ragtime act doesn't appeal to a mass audience. BORING! We don't owe you a dime either.

Spending tax dollars on music in our public schools is one thing. Your Bay City Arts is just another of those Free loading non profits that Steve Hartmann rails about...
 
Posted by Mahakala (Member # 570) on April 12, 2007, 11:52 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by LWard:
I would like to, however, retain the right to use 'hysterical' on occasion.

'Hysterical' (with the h capitalized or not) is fine; that's me, at times.

I didn't know what the other phrase meant then, and still don't now. Searches haven't helped. Any hints? [Smile]
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 13, 2007, 03:57 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by BillBo:

But, just please occasionally consider the people who you hurt with all your abusive ranting.

I look forward to Craig's contributions and now you've ruined it for me.[/QB]

"consider the people who you hurt"???? Wow, that from a guy who spends his waking hours tormenting the weak. Hypocrisy has a new name: bullybo.
 
Posted by SharkbaitII (Member # 1501) on April 13, 2007, 07:33 AM:
 
Lward, i dont know how to take that comment about the non anonymous thing considering my graditude? usually i am sharper than this. i do have graditude for the kindness that was shown to me without any conditions attatched. but, in all fairness, i do speak the truth. i am not out to burn anyone or jump on any bandwagon witch hunt. i was just speaking the truth, as was told to me. i speak only for myself, and my superman league. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by pdskee (Member # 1319) on April 13, 2007, 07:46 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by ecliptic:
quote:
Originally posted by pdskee:

At the same time, any reasonable person would agree that if we took a really drunk, but gifted individual, that person would be far more physically and mentally impaired and nowhere near as able to produce such lucid and clear writing.

Well this reasonable person begs to differ by offering a few names: Ernest Hemingway, Truman Capote, Dylan Thomas, Raymond Chandler, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Jack Kerouac, Edgar Allan Poe. Every one a sot, and by my estimation, every one even more talented than PSB.

On the other hand, I've always agreed with the underlying observation that pot is, on the whole, less dangerous to health and society than alcohol, even if it were used to the same extent as alcohol.

Clip, how dare you come back with that? I figured someone would, but you are in agreement, so no problem. But, the people you mentioned, one problem, they're all dead! Plus, though they were all heavy drinkers, I doubt they did their best work totally drunk. I was in a record store yesterday, and they had a great collection of humorous refrigerator magnets. My favorite:
"I would never advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me!"
Hunter Thompson(also dead)

The one I bought:

"Finish your beer, there are sober kids in India"
 
Posted by LWard (Member # 1381) on April 13, 2007, 08:20 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by SharkbaitII:
Lward, i dont know how to take that comment about the non anonymous thing considering my graditude? usually i am sharper than this. i do have graditude for the kindness that was shown to me without any conditions attatched. but, in all fairness, i do speak the truth. i am not out to burn anyone or jump on any bandwagon witch hunt. i was just speaking the truth, as was told to me. i speak only for myself, and my superman league. [Big Grin]

Sorry for being obscure, Shark. I remember when you had a beef with a local merchant, and I encouraged you to not air a nuanced complaint with a local merchant here on the forum because I thought it might put you in legal jeopardy. In the case of you recounting Winston harassing ObersverII off the forum, I was thinking you might be in jeopardy from retaliation by Winston. In any case, I admire your willingness to tell the truth, as you see it, without regard to bandwagons.

[ April 13, 2007, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: LWard ]
 
Posted by palmspringsbum (Member # 1742) on April 13, 2007, 09:43 AM:
 
I haven't read the last dozen or so posts here but I have a few things to say about all this. Firstly, it was several days before the _s_h_i_t_ hit the fan here that I told Robert I expected to happen pretty much what has happened. And will happen.

I was certain something like this was going to happen after I sat there and watched one of you try to lay a guilt trip on me by ordering a pepperoni pizza and then picking the pepperoni's off it...

...but anyway.

In so far as making private communications public, puh-leez.

You don't get to sit here and be Ms. Mother Teresa in public and expect me to take _s_h_i_t_ like that in private.

As for abuse, I see no quote of anything I ever said or did that was abusive - not to Cagey. I would never make such a charge or an accusation against someone without providing a quote of what they said I was responding to, and (most likely) a link.

I am the one being abused.

And you should be ashamed.

[ April 13, 2007, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: palmspringsbum ]
 


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