| viperella |
| property of FW |
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| Reged: Feb 22 |
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 A
challenge to David
#375847 - Thu Nov 14 2002 02:25 PM
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David you come
down here to LA and repeat what Scott accomplished and open up a
club in LA and have it running for five years in LA or else shut the
fuck up about Scott who is facing 20 years right now.
And by
the way do anarchists really actually believe in free speech? I
think not because you are the opinion police yourself when it comes
to Scott Imler.
And since you've never actually asked him in
person how he feels about marijuana prohibition then where do you
get off claiming to know what his opinion is?
--------------------
******** Combustion lente --
Facilite votre roulage ********
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| viperella |
| property of FW |
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| Reged: Feb 22 |
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We really need
you David. We need a totally morally superior person to come down
and take on all of the federal mandatory minimum risk for us so
there can be another cannabis club down here.
So please David
put your money and your life where your enormous mouth is and come
down to LA and show us all what a better man you are than Scott
Imler.
We need another club down here. We need YOU!
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******** Combustion lente --
Facilite votre roulage ********
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"David you
come down here to LA and repeat what Scott accomplished and open up
a club in LA and have it running for five years in LA or else shut
the fuck up about Scott who is facing 20 years right
now."
Sorry, I'm too busy dealing with destroying ALL the pot
laws in MY OWN country. It sounds like nobody gets to deal pot in LA
without selling out so I wouldn't do too well down
there.....besides, I don't really see the point of wasting time
arguing that sick people should have the right to smoke it, when
what I really want is to see a war against harmless people ended.
And that means dealing with the issue of healthy poor people dealing
it. If healthy poor people can deal it, then the red tape that
strangles sick people will automatically be removed. You folks dream
too small for me.
"And by the way do
anarchists really actually believe in free speech? I think not
because you are the opinion police yourself when it comes to Scott
Imler."
We put his cultural genocide sellout interview with
MTV up at POT TV....is there any other shining Imler moments we're
missing?.....you're welcome to post those
too.
"And since you've never actually
asked him in person how he feels about marijuana prohibition then
where do you get off claiming to know what his opinion is?
"
I listened to him on MTV. You should too, it sounds like.
There's a link in the Chomsky thread that will lead you right to
it.
--------------------
"I have struggled against
tyranny. I didn't do that in order to substitute another." Desmond
Tutu
Edited by davidmalmolevine (Thu
Nov 14 2002 04:01 PM)
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"So please
David put your money and your life where your enormous mouth is and
come down to LA and show us all what a better man you are than Scott
Imler.
We need another club down here. We need YOU!
"
If I don't have to deal with the sell-out defence
committee, I can better prepare myself for the supreme court....If I
win there, even you folks in LA may hear about it - and THAT may
help much more than if another sell-out club opens
up.
--------------------
"I have struggled
against tyranny. I didn't do that in order to substitute another."
Desmond Tutu
Edited by
davidmalmolevine (Thu Nov 14 2002 03:51 PM)
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| palmspringsbum |
| Pooh-Bah |
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God you're
full of SHIT!
If McCormick and McWilliams were such fucking
great muckity-mucks why didn't they start their own damn club
instead of trying to crash Scott's.
Probably my last post
here, I've offended A STAR!
Expect to be bannished any time
now....
--------------------
U.S. Out of California!
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I take it by
your post that you are not offended by Scott saying "all pot should
be taken with a doctor's supervision"? I hope I offend all the
monopolists away from here, quite frankly - I wouldn't be doing my
job if we pandered our facilities too the genocidal sell-out
crowd.
--------------------
"I have struggled
against tyranny. I didn't do that in order to substitute another."
Desmond Tutu
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| palmspringsbum |
| Pooh-Bah |
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I don't see
you calling Gary Johnson a narc.
Face it, you been had by the
McCormick/McWilliams crowd.
Disagreeing with Scott over
medicinal vs. recreational is one thing. I disagree about that.
Calling him a narc because he refused to let some well-healed
opportunists cash in on his baby is something else
entirely.
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U.S. Out of California!
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"I don't
see you calling Gary Johnson a narc."
Was he a narc? I didn't
know that. You gotta source for that?
"Fce it,
you been had by the McCormick/McWilliams crowd."
It's a
bigger and better crowd than the Imler crowd. You don't hear Dennis
saying "all pot should be taken under the supervision of a doctor"
do you?
"isagreeing with Scott over medicinal
vs. recreational is one thing. I disagree about that."
It's a
pritty big "one thing" - statements like Scotts are inaccurate,
weak, and embolden the police and give the doctors and pharmacists a
monopoly.
"alling him a narc because he refused
to let some well-healed opportunists cash in on his baby is
something else entirely."
I called him a narc cause he talked
in exchange for his red-tape doctor worshipping club could stay in
business when he should have just shut his mouth and stood by his
community and not tried to make deals with the evil empire. In every
other scapegoated culture, they call that type of "cooperatorator" a
"rat".
Truth hurts, don't
it?
--------------------
"I have struggled against
tyranny. I didn't do that in order to substitute another." Desmond
Tutu
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| viperella |
| property of FW |
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| Reged: Feb 22 |
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David tell me
-- do you imagine that you can hurt Scott Imler?
Do you
really think that you can hurt him with your words?
The only
people you have hurt are the members of the club. You can't hurt
SCott because nothing you can do compares with 20 years.
But
you are a smart man and you know darn well that you can't hurt
Scott.
So I have to conclude that the real reason why you are
slagging on Scott is because you want to hurt the members of the LA
club. There is no other rational reason for your behavior.
Do
you know how your behavior hurts the members of the LA club?
Because it makes them ALL suspects and it really throws a
huge monkey wrench into the dynamics of pot activism in all of
Southern california. As someone who has tried organizing in LA, I
can tell you that this bullshit campaign against Scott is the real
reason why we don't have a cohesive activist team down
here.
The harm you are doing is real. I live with it. . Face
up to it.
You people who sit up in Canada and flap your lips
narc narc narc are really doing some damage down here.
--------------------
******** Combustion lente --
Facilite votre roulage ********
Edited by viperella (Thu Nov 14 2002 05:17
PM)
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| palmspringsbum |
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It's a
bigger and better crowd than the Imler crowd.
Then why
didn't they start their own club and leave him
alone?
--------------------
U.S. Out of
California!
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| GrizzyGraehm |
| that grizzy shit |
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| Reged: Aug 26 |
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ok ok ok ok ok
ok ok
shut up. seriously.
waaaaaah i need medical
pot...then go and buy some, better yet grow some, even better than
that just go shoot your self so i dont hear your
whining.
Sell-out this, sell-out that, wtf is with this
sell-out shit. You sound like a god damned music
critic.....enough.
Canadians from my experience, especially
the pot activists, are nothing more than people filled with a huge
hatred for the united states and its people. I dont hate canada for
the fucking zebra muscles choking out my beautiful great lakes...you
sit on a pedastal named canada....you think your higher and better
than americans because smoking weed is barely a crime...but guess
what it still is.
Cannabis Culture is a great magazine a
great community and a great knowledge source. But its constant
slandering and bashing of america and its public do nothing to help
it gain support. Rethink your ways.
--------------------
"Knowledge is accumilated like resin
in bongs." HAHA YES!
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| palmspringsbum |
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DAVID HASN'T
ANSWERED MY QUESTION. HE'S AVOIDING IT.
Why didn't McCormick
& McWilliams start their own
club?
--------------------
U.S. Out of California!
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| CO_Cannabis |
| superposter |
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| Reged: Sep 03 |
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As we fight
amongst ourselves, the enemy grows stronger.
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Helping The Rockie Mountains Stay
High!
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Instead of
combining resources in the war against prohibition , you're starting
civil fueds.
Is there any point to this?
--------------------
"He who makes a beast of himself ,
escapes the horror of being a man " http://www.ecnal.ca/
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i honestly
think not addressing the issues around scott imler earlier has
helped this blow up now. It's very hard to know what is the 'truth'
or just sum1's version of it. Since the friction between Viprella
and Chris Bennet a few months back about this issue, I have
personally wondered what the truth was behind the story. If scott
really did turn a dime on Renee' then he deserves all the guff he
gets for it. How could we even post him here in any positive light
if that is true is beyond me. I like Viprella alot and I found the
DEA breakfast thing they did to be genuine and brave, they seemed
legitamately nervous and stuck it out anyhow. Now if scott truly is
a rat then he should just be beheaded from the LA movement, let them
pick a new avatar and get on with what is real. I don't know enough
about the truth or history of this issue to have an opinion but i do
thing it is something that should be addressed, even on these
forums, just so it doesn't sit below the surface festering. any rat
should be seen as a rat and shown the door. If scott made deals with
the devil then he has to face the consequences of the devils style
of deal making. viperella if scott is innocent and doing good work
down there then interview him and let him tell his side of the
story. there is no other way his name will clear with all the
evidence people feel implicates him (i.e. police report with him
listed as a witness vs renee etc). I am just a regular viewer so i
don't know the big answers all i know is that unless he says
something in his defense than people will see him thru the lens of
how others describe him. if yer a friend of scotts and want to stick
with him no matter what then fine but just dont expect people to
look the other way when they hear incriminating info about him. I
would love to see this story uncovered so it can go away. I hope
viperella and the la crew find their way thru this crisis, and i
hope they stay conjoined with the canadian leg of the movement, so
lets either get the truth out or agree to live without it peacably.
also, the criticism aimed toward the canadian crew having ego issues
i feel have some validity. i am not saying that to clip anybody's
wings I am saying it because it is actually a weakness not a
strength. letting go of egos always makes a system containing many
people that much stronger. real heros dont care if they are
acknowledged imo.
god bless us all
Redeye
8*)_~
--------------------
"Absolutism isn't very
exceptional"
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chrisbennett |
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Far from being
an opportunist, peter McWilliams was a heroic libertarian and a
loved philosopher and writer. Suffering from Cancer and Aids, he
ended up choking to death on his own vomit after bail conditions
were instilled (with bail being posted with a morgage on his
mother's house), which prevented him from using the medical
marijuana he used to ease the nausea produced by the medicines he
required. Any person who testified against this great individual and
aided the Feds in doing so, is in my eyes responsible for those
deeds.
Todd McCormick is a 7 times cancer survivor who
believes heart and soul in the cannaibs that has aided in easing his
own discomoforts. he has devoted his life to studying the
propagation and healing properties of this sacred plant.
For
someone using a nick name in order to show these heroes such
disrespect, especially since one of them is now a martyr for our
cause, and the other has been in jail for 4 long years, is cowardly
and uncalled for.
As for Imler.... somethings are just
better left unsaid.
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| palmspringsbum |
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I don't
know enough about the truth or history of this issue to have an
opinion but i do thing it is something that should be addressed,
even on these forums, just so it doesn't sit below the surface
festering.
Absolutely.
I'm not a fan of Scott's.
His Hollywood Hunger strike appeared to me (from a distance) to be
more of a setback than anything else. They announced a hunger
strike, got a lot of press, and then announced they got hungry and
decided to call it off....for instance. In my opinion they'd have
been better off never to have done it in the first
place.
My plan, in fact, was (and still is) to use my
nonprofit 501(c)3 company, the MEDICAL BOTANICAL FOUNDATION, to get
medical marijuana into pharmacies, just like any other medication.
If someone came to me (and I was a director of a club)
trying to sell me weed and I knew this, I'd turn white too. Even Mr.
Let's Keep Records Scott would realize the implications if he did
business with such a business.
Through the MEDICAL
BOTANICAL FOUNDATION I intended (and still do) to be "the largest
supplier of medical marijuana in the country..." but only legally
and only though pharmacies after medical marijuana had been made a
Schedule II prescription drug.
This is the person
accusing Scott of monopolistic
practices?
Duh!
After Todd's bust on July 29, 1997,
the first federal medical marijuana bust since the passage of 215 in
November 1996,
I immediately donated everything I had to an
organization I still believed was dedicated to getting medical
marijuana
to the sick, the Los Angeles Cannabis Buyer's Club.
Translation, he tried to unload his -evidence- on Scott,
and thereby implicate him after Scott had repeatedly refused to have
anything to do with him. He tried to set Scott and the West
Hollywood Club up. This is the person accusing Scott of being a
snitch?
In reply to:
"110. On or about August, 1997, in Los Angeles, California,
defendant PETER McWILLIAMS attempted to distribute numerous
marijuana plants, grow lights and other equipment to the Los
Angeles Cannabis Buyer's Club in order to prevent the discovery of
the marijuana grow at the 8165 Mannix residence.
"111. In
or about August, l997, at the 8165 Mannix residence, defendants
PETER McWILLIAMS and ANDREW SCOTT HASS, distributed processed
marijuana, numerous grow lights, light movers, fans, timers and
electrical equipment to employees of the Los Angeles Cannabis
Buyer's Club in order to prevent the discovery of the marijuana
grow at the 8165 Mannix residence."
Here, I'm giving Imler
all this stuff for free, and all the while he's freely talking to
the DEA about my donations.
The lights, light movers, etc. I
donated, but no "processed marijuana."
You been had Vansterdamn.
I can guarantee you
that Andrew Scott Hass never told the feds any of this,
which
leaves the source of information as "employees of the Los Angeles
Cannabis Buyer's Club."
What I had offered to do, in fact, was
install a state-of-the-art hydroponic system at the Club as a
donation.
Oh? Sounds to me like Scott smelled a rat form
the beginning. How do we know it wasn't McWilliams or McCormick or
Boje that gave them this information.
Fact is, from what I've
heard everything Scott did was on the up & up. His fued with
Dennis over record-keeping, his medicinal good recreational bad
philosophy...everything points to him being a total blue-stocking
and not hiding anything...
...and knowing this, McWilliams
& McCormick were fools to attempt to deal with him or have
anything to do with him. And doubly fools for expecting him to lie
about their overtures.
As I said before, it looks to
me like McCormick & McWilliams repeatedly attempted to involve
Imler in their racket and he repeatedly refused to be involved. Then
they tried to bring him down with them by attempting to give him
their equipement....
From what I've been told there was no
stiuplation that anyone at the Bel-Air place have a medical
neccessity or recommendation for cannabis and David has all but
admitted this himself.
For them to attempt to hide their
party under Scott's skirts and legitimize their mercenary operation
as a non-profit under the auspices of medical marijuana and the West
Hollywood Club...well, if that's what was going on and it looks like
it to me...well; looks to me like they tried to use Scott and the
L.A. Club to not only make a buck but eliminate the
competition.
--------------------
U.S. Out of
California!
Edited by palmspringsbum
(Fri Nov 15 2002 01:39 PM)
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Well, Scott
managed to get West Hollywood to donate him a building and condone
his club. And their public defender is willing to represent him to
the Supreme Court if neccessary.
Now, if McWilliams &
McCormick were such heroes and so up & up, why couldn't they get
some city or other local government to back their scheme? Why were
they trying to steal Scott's reputation?
And why are
everyone of you not only refusing to answer, but ignoring my
question? WHY DIDN'T McWILLIAMS AND McCORMICK START THEIR OWN CLUB?
--------------------
U.S. Out of California!
Edited by palmspringsbum (Fri Nov 15
2002 01:35 PM)
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| chrisbennett |
| Pot-TV Station Manager |
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"How do we
know it wasn't McWilliams or McCormick or Boje that gave them this
information." (Note palmspringsburn felt bad about this statement
and edited it out)
So now your trying to imply that my wife Renee
who is a refugee because she didn't want to be forced to rat, Todd
who is in jail or Peter who is dead are rats. Pretty easy when you
are using a fake name. With the way your so defensive about someone
who testified against fellow activists, (on record and lots of that
to boot), and the way you are totally anonymous about your real
identity, leaves one to suspect that maybe your a rat?
If you are
going to mak such uncalled for accussations, then maybe you should
put your name to them so they can be addressed person to person,
after all we are all only as good as our reputatuion.
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| chrisbennett |
| Pot-TV Station Manager |
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"Well, Scott
managed to get West Hollywood to donate him a building and condone
his club. And their public defender is willing to represent him to
the Supreme Court if neccessary."
Is the Internal revenue
Investigation on Scott over? I understand there were some serious
questions there?
"Now, if McWilliams & McCormick were
such heroes and so up & up, why couldn't they get some city or
other local government to back their scheme? Why were they trying to
steal Scott's reputation? "
They were doing there own thing,
writing about and studying the production of marijuana, funded by
themselves and supported by many individuals. As they still
are.
"And why are everyone of you not only refusing to
answer, but ignoring my question? WHY DIDN'T McWILLIAMS AND
McCORMICK START THEIR OWN CLUB? "
Who is to say they wouldn't
of if they hadn't been busted. They were working on a project that
would likely have worked into other projects. This was early in Prop
215, and many things were just begining.
Why didn'y you start
a club Mr.Anonymous?
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| palmspringsbum |
| Pooh-Bah |
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| Reged: Apr 16 |
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I use a
pen-name because I'm poor, on disability. I don't live in a Bel-Air
mansion with decorative pot plants...I rent. And I couldn't live
with myself if my actions resulted in my landlady's house being
taken...
...but I knew this was coming.
Why you want
my name? So you can snitch me off? Well, I've got a prescription
now, though it took me 6 years to get it.
And why are you
attacking me instead of answereing my question: WHY DIDN'T McCormick
& McWilliams start their own damn
club?
--------------------
U.S. Out of California!
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| chrisbennett |
| Pot-TV Station Manager |
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"I use a
pen-name because I'm poor, on disability. I don't live in a Bel-Air
mansion with decorative pot plants...I rent. And I couldn't live
with myself if my actions resulted in my landlady's house being
taken..."
Why aren't you a success like peter
was?
"Why you want my name? So you can snitch me off?
"
No, because your badmouthing good people who accomplished a
lot well just as sick as you. And if you are going to do so, you
should at least be as brave and open as they were.
"WHY
DIDN'T McCormick & McWilliams start their own damn club?"
I
did answer that. Now, why don'y you open a club?
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| palmspringsbum |
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You know,
after The Club re-opened after being busted I found myself on one of
those motorized trollies with Imler and his crew. They didn't know
me or who I was, and I from listening to them ... well, they struck
me as a bunch of catty old vindictive queens. Not anyone I'd want to
know or have anything to do with. Or anyone I'd trust. Their petty
catty cuts of Dennis truly offended me.
And I wish I hadn't
gotten into this...but the fact remains anyone with any connection
to reality could see that McCormick & McWilliams were pushing
the envelope into the ozone - that they were flagrantly flaunting
the law and most likely were heading for a big fall.
You got
to keep in my that L.A. is not a city, not in the sense San
Francisco is. And it is the town famous for Rodney King and Bill (I
meant Darryl, or whatever his name is) Gates and the Rampart
scandal. In many ways it is somewhere to the right of
Alabama.
Sigh...I wish I'd never gotten involved in this
argument but it seems very clear to me that McCormick &
Mcwilliams were trying to cash in on Scott's club (John Entwistle
says so in so many words - and I know him, and I trust him...he does
not make public statements casually, and neither is he a
fool.)
--------------------
U.S. Out of
California!
Edited by palmspringsbum
(Fri Nov 15 2002 06:59 PM)
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| chrisbennett |
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"but the fact
remains anyone with any connection to reality could see that
McCormick & McWilliams were pushing the envelope into the ozone
- that they were flagrantly flaunting the law and most likely were
heading for a big fall."
Have you ever met a guy called Marc
Emery? It's all about pushing the envelope. How about David malmo
Levine who you've ben slagging? Thank God for the Envelope
Pushers!
Those who sit back and anonymously criticize the
Envelope Pushers, it is they who are the burden of this movement!
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| palmspringsbum |
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Now, why
don'y you open a club?
1) I don't have any backing. I
haven't even been able to supply myself with cannabis for weeks now.
I've been out. I've had two manic episodes over the last week as a
result.
2) I would never even think about it without a good
lawyer on retainer. And when I say good I'm talking about Tony Serra
or David Nick.
3) Politically, and realistically it's the
wrong time.
If I had backing and support of the local
authorities and the representation of a good lawyer, and there was
an injuction against the feds from interefering I most certainly
would.
But the fact is I have been hounded for 6 years now
and been run out of my home not once, not twice, but at least three
times. I've had my place broken into and everything smashed. I've
recently had police refuse to honor a restraining order and been
evicted and forced to move. I've had to sit home alone day after day
for months going hungry, without medicine.
I've been too busy
keeping a roof over my head to do anything else. I'm currently
having to budget in order to have gas to go to the local MAPP
meetings. And I generally go hungry the last week or so of the
month.
On the one hand I admire you folks...but you're
starting to turn my stomach.
Your videos are great - the
quality, variety and quantity are superb. And having them available
on a web site is truly a great service. But you seem to be terribly
insular to me. You've embraced the ones that fled the heat and are
trashing the ones that stayed here to fight.
This is
wrong...and it could very well backfire on
you.
--------------------
U.S. Out of California!
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| chrisbennett |
| Pot-TV Station Manager |
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"You've
embraced the ones that fled the heat and are trashing the ones that
stayed here to fight.
This is wrong...and it could very well
backfire on you."
I was thinking this of you. I feel nothing
but compassion for your situation and you can count that like David
does, and as Peter and Todd did, I too will continue to push the
envelope in order to free those opressed by this War on Drugs like
yourself. Let us put an end to this slagging.
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| palmspringsbum |
| Pooh-Bah |
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| Reged: Apr 16 |
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Besides, if I
told you my name you wouldn't believe
it...
--------------------
U.S. Out of California!
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| chrisbennett |
| Pot-TV Station Manager |
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| Reged: Jun 21 |
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Give me your
initials and I'll see if I can gues ;-)
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| chrisbennett |
| Pot-TV Station Manager |
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| Reged: Jun 21 |
| Posts: 1573 |
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Gilligan?
Little Buddy? Is that you?
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| viperella |
| property of FW |
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| Reged: Feb 22 |
| Posts: 1651 |
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This is the
choice you are makign Chris:
You are choosing that is is now
impossible for me to continue to hold my head up as an acitivist in
this communtiy.
I think I need to retire as an activist right
now because obviously Scott's reputation and your problems with the
LA club make it completely impossible for me to withstand this
emotionally.
I can't continue like this.
Every time I
get a big project started -- you guys start up on Scott.
Why
is that Chris? Why is it that every time I try to get a big rpoject
up, you srat on Scott? Is it because you deliberately want me to
drop everything and come and defend myself.
because if he is
guilty then I benefited from his actions and I am guilty too and you
need to tell me right now to get the goddamned hell off of this
board ASAP and leave marijuana activism behind forever.
Stand
behind what you say. This is what you want. I am here defending my
life. I am in pain. I am here defending myself
You cannot
hurt Scott. I am the only one here whom you can actually hurt and
cause pain to with your campaign so i conclude that I must be the
one that you want to hurt, and you want me to quit what I am doing.
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******** Combustion lente --
Facilite votre roulage ********
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"Every
time I get a big project started -- you guys start up on
Scott."
I'm not going to talk about Scott anymore - "if you
can't say something nice..."
But let's get one thing
straight. YOU brought up Scott after slagging Noam Chomsky for ten
posts. If you don't bring him up again, you probably won't hear bad
things about him. I included the post you brought him up in because
you seem to have forgotten.
And one more thing.... you deal
out just as much "emotional" stress with your baseless slags on
Chomsky as our base-full slags on Scott. If you can't handle a
meaningful dialog about movement strategy, you're in the wrong
movement. We need open dialog and activists willing to be open to
criticism if this thing is going to work at
all.
In Pot TV forum:
Re: Noam Chomsky [re:
davidmalmolevine] Reply
Posted by viperella (old hand)
Posted on 10/24/02 10:51 AM
What's espcially
tragic to me David is that YOU are a legitimate dissident in ways
that Chomsky will never be, because he would never choose to make
the kind of sacrifice necessary to be a real
dissident.
Chomsky chose to become an academic and get tenure
nd be protected from the whole world in the university tenure
coccoon.
You, David, have made more risky choices. People
like Ed Rosenthal, Scott Imler, Bryan Epis, Steph Sherer have also
made risky choices to oppose the government, to oppose those in
power, without protection.
The real dissidents are in this
movement.
And frankly I think you dishonor your own self to
call Chomsky by a term of honor that he has not earned by risking
anything real in his life.
He's a compelling writer, he's a
strong critic of those in power, but he is not a
dissident.
He is not at risk in any way, while yours and most
everyone elses here is at risk in very major ways.
--------------------
"I have struggled against
tyranny. I didn't do that in order to substitute another." Desmond
Tutu
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